What has to be wrong is the subrail bevel, because you can't get a nose height of 1 3/8" with a 23.5 bevel, the nose has to be higher than that.
Looking for some sub rail angle advice
- Thread starter MISteve
- Start date
Nope. Pay attention. 25 years as a CNC machinist/programmer and 10 years as a QC inspector. I made a triangle, as I don't have access today to my toolbox at work full of accurate Starrett and Mitutoyo measuring stuff.
Now I put it up against the angle, aligned perpendicular to the rail. Then I checked with feeler gages. The top was touching. I could get a .005 feeler in the gap at the bottom, but not a .010. (.005" over 1.1875" is about 1/4 of a degree.) I'm gonna say it is 23-1/2 degrees.
So let's quit pointing fingers at my measuring skills, ignore any cushion pictures and pretend I got this table with no cushions. Using 2 known facts, 1-11/16" to top of rail where cushion mounts, and cushion mounting angle is 23-1/2 degrees from vertical, what cushions should I use? Lots of pictures on the internet, but I'd trust a pro table mechanic to advise me. Ignore the 1-3/16 wide mounting surface. I can extend that. It seems like everyone is misunderstanding that I want to put K66 rails on this thing because the rail mount is 1-3/16". I don't care what it had on it, (I think it had some bast***ized cushion) I want to put what is right on it.
Ôk, I'm machinist and solid in mathematic, trigonometry...., just to know one point, how your rectangular angle is really at 90 degrees accurately, it's easy to miss a couple of degrees?
Check, that's my angle finder and it's very accurate +/- 0.05 degrees, when I put it on the slate and on the rail bevel I have the perfect reality, not the technical calculation!
I used a carpenters square to align it. Good at trigonometry? Figure out the 23.5 degree angular error if the 90 degrees was off 5 degrees. Hint: it's less than 1/3 of a degree.
I don't need to calculate your things, that's not my way to do in these circumstances, do you think that you are the one and only one to know trigonometry!!
https://assets.testequity.com/te1/Documents/pdf/general_tools/General-Tools_828_DataSheet_0524.pdf Accuracy of .3 degrees. Resolution of .05 degrees. NOT the same. Any good machinist would know that. Do you calibrate it to a known standard before use? Doubtful. Where's the picture of what you calibrate it with? Go into any toolmaking shop and try to fill out an inspection report based on that uncalibrated device, and see what happens. I'm not gonna waste my time any more with this discussion about who can measure the best. I revised my question, at the end of post #42, provided data, how I got it, and got dragged into a measuring pi**ing match instead of getting an answer. Have a nice day.
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Anyway, when I have somethings to calculaste I use the little programm, fast and easy.
https://www.calculator.net/right-triangle-calculator.html
And .3 degrees is not enough accurate, it's certainly more accurate than your way, and I know that can reach .1 easily with my tools.
https://www.calculator.net/right-triangle-calculator.html
And .3 degrees is not enough accurate, it's certainly more accurate than your way, and I know that can reach .1 easily with my tools.
So you can't do the math?I don't need to calculate your things, that's not my way to do in these circumstances, do you think that you are the one and only one to know trigonometry!!
You can calculate a week long, if you want to know the reality at his best, take 2 piece of cushion K66 and K55 and you will have the best.
I can calculate by trigonometry anytime, I used that before the little programm, I make my carbon fiber profile myself and that include angles and radius, when I can do short I do short, why not, trigonometry is not the end of the world, maybe for you!
I can calculate by trigonometry anytime, I used that before the little programm, I make my carbon fiber profile myself and that include angles and radius, when I can do short I do short, why not, trigonometry is not the end of the world, maybe for you!
I'm going to say this one time only, take it for what it's worth, up to you. Brunswick GC sub-rails have a subrail 1 11/16" thick, the subrail bevel is 23.5 degrees. The cushions that fit on them, that the rails are designed for, is the K55 profile. The nose height of those K55 cushions is 1 27/64"ths.
Now take the Diamond pool tables, their subrails were 1 3/4" thick, 23.5 bevel, and K55 cushions with a nose height of 1 29/64"ths, why higher with the same bevel as Brunswick. Because the subrails were a little thicker. Then in 2010 I redesigned the Diamond rails, I changed the subrail thickness to 1 11/16"ths, and using the same K55 profile cushions, I changed the subrail bevel to 24.25 degrees, to rails the nose height back up to 1 29/64"ths to stop the banking short and balls hopping off the rails.
Now, I know for a fact that K66 cushions placed end to end with K55 cushions, comparing the cushion triangles to each other, the nose height of the K66 cushions are about an 1/8" higher than the K55's.
So, if someone were to install the K66 cushions on Brunswick GC, the nose height would turn out to be 1 9/16"ths! So now, explain to me, how you can have rails, that are 1 11/16" thick, with a bevel of 23.5 degrees, and a nose height of 1 3/8"ths, using K66 cushions??
They MUST be K55 cushions already, that the only thing that makes sense!
What is the width of the cushions from the nose to the subrail, measured across the top of the cushions. K66 cushions measure 1 1/8" except for the Brunswick Monarch Superspeed cushions pre 1980's which also measured 1 1/8" but the triangle of the cushions was Brunswick K55, not interchangeable with K66 cushions!
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Wow, I didn't know that one, the Diamond cushion noses are at 1 29/64'' that's it!, otherwise it would jump and the GCs at 1 27/64'' do they have problems, in my area we almost all have Black Crowns from Canada Billiards, so I don't often see Diamond and Brunswick.
Diamond uses the Artemis Intercontinental K55 billiards cushions on their 9fts. Those cushions have a more rounded nose, compared to the Superspeed K55 cushions that come more to a point. The difference is friction, the balls have more grab, cling, spin, when coming into more contact with the rounded nose of the cushions than they do with the more pointed cushions if the Superspeed K55's.
Trigonometry shrigotrometry, I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night!!!!!
Lessee-
I'm a machinist too, check.
can do the math, check.
Can even about 1/2 read french....
But i don't know squat about setting a table up.
That's to say that it has been useful and interesting from this seat and i appreciate both OP puzzle & especially what RKC and others have posted that will be useful when i finally get around to making rails for my own project.
MISteve - it looks like the only way to resolve it is to actually get a section of K55 or K66 and verify what you actually have on hand.
That is one variable that no one is going to solve by theory.
Thanks, guys - hope someone solves nose conundrum.
smt
I'm a machinist too, check.
can do the math, check.
Can even about 1/2 read french....
But i don't know squat about setting a table up.
That's to say that it has been useful and interesting from this seat and i appreciate both OP puzzle & especially what RKC and others have posted that will be useful when i finally get around to making rails for my own project.
MISteve - it looks like the only way to resolve it is to actually get a section of K55 or K66 and verify what you actually have on hand.
That is one variable that no one is going to solve by theory.
Thanks, guys - hope someone solves nose conundrum.
smt
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Or stay at a Holiday Inn!!!!Lessee-
I'm a machinist too, check.
can do the math, check.
Can even about 1/2 read french....
But i don't know squat about setting a table up.
That's to say that it has been useful and interesting from this seat and i appreciate both OP puzzle & especially what RKC and others have posted that will be useful when i finally get around to making rails for my own project.
MISteve - it looks like the only way to resolve it is to actually get a section of K55 or K66 and verify what you actually have on hand.
That is one variable that no one is going to solve by theory.
Thanks, guys - hope someone solves nose conundrum.
smt
Was able to get a 3 inch chunk of K66. Will have a chunk of K55 after this weekend. (hopefully) Will post results sometime after.Lessee-
I'm a machinist too, check.
can do the math, check.
Can even about 1/2 read french....
But i don't know squat about setting a table up.
That's to say that it has been useful and interesting from this seat and i appreciate both OP puzzle & especially what RKC and others have posted that will be useful when i finally get around to making rails for my own project.
MISteve - it looks like the only way to resolve it is to actually get a section of K55 or K66 and verify what you actually have on hand.
That is one variable that no one is going to solve by theory.
Thanks, guys - hope someone solves nose conundrum.
smt
The best way before ordering your new cushions, you will be sure at 100%
