Looking For The Best Non-Phenolic Break Tip

Rich93

A Small Time Charlie
Silver Member
I'm looking for a really good leather tip for a breal-jump cue. I'm willing to give up whatever advantage there might be in having a phenolic tip, but I'd like to give up as little as possible. I don't know if phenolics can hurt the equipment, but I'd prefer to play with a tip where there's no worry about that. Also, the "arms race" concerning b/j tips is not something I want to encourage. Thanks.

Rich
 
Rich93 said:
I'm looking for a really good leather tip for a breal-jump cue. I'm willing to give up whatever advantage there might be in having a phenolic tip, but I'd like to give up as little as possible. I don't know if phenolics can hurt the equipment, but I'd prefer to play with a tip where there's no worry about that. Also, the "arms race" concerning b/j tips is not something I want to encourage. Thanks.

Rich

WB water buffalo...JER
 
Rich93 said:
I'm looking for a really good leather tip for a breal-jump cue. I'm willing to give up whatever advantage there might be in having a phenolic tip, but I'd like to give up as little as possible. I don't know if phenolics can hurt the equipment, but I'd prefer to play with a tip where there's no worry about that. Also, the "arms race" concerning b/j tips is not something I want to encourage. Thanks.

Rich

If you are looking for "hard" try to find a Chanidvert Rocky.
 
coastydad said:
If you are looking for "hard" try to find a Chanidvert Rocky.[/QU


I like those too, BUt I would stick with WB. Whether it be layered or not.


There's Sumo, Sumo layered, talisman WB layered. WB. There are quite a few. I think . Well I prefer these tips myself when breaking. They help you control the cue ball a bit better. I personally use a dynamite tip or a WB. Depending on how i feel. Hope this helps.


Tony
 
Talisman has a new layered break tip they are giving away when you order their Pro or WB tips. Not to hard, not to soft. Great for cue ball control.
Ive been using one for 2 months now when my Phenolic isn't getting the results I want.
Great tip, and cant beat the free price tag.:)
 
My basic leather break tips are usually WB's, altough recently I installed a few old super pro hards I had left from years ago, And all three people were very happy with them. Seems alot of people getting away from phenolic, and going back to leather for the improved cue ball control.

Greg C
 
Thanks for all the advice. A couple of questions: (1) Who makes the super pro? (2) Which is harder - Sumo or WB, or are they about the same? (3) Is the Tiger jump/break tip part phenolic - I read that it was phenolic on the bottom and leather on top.

Thanks again.
 
Be very careful with the Sumo & WB tips. They are hard but they are somewhat brittle...and very often when breaking/jumping with them they will explode a little chunk of leather off the edge. I totally quit recommending them for j/b cues. Better choice is the Xtra hard Talisman. Or even a better choice is to take a Triangle, soak it in mineral spirits for a few days then leave pressed in a vise for a few more days. I mean really press it too, I'll beat the handle around with a hammer. This is the only way a leather tip can be taken seriously for jumping & breaking. They feel near phenolic hard...and are IPT legal. Be careful to use sharp tools when trimming/shaping, you don't want to stress the tip and make it uncompress. I need to quit giving secrets away...
 
Varney Cues said:
Be very careful with the Sumo & WB tips. They are hard but they are somewhat brittle...and very often when breaking/jumping with them they will explode a little chunk of leather off the edge. I totally quit recommending them for j/b cues. Better choice is the Xtra hard Talisman. Or even a better choice is to take a Triangle, soak it in mineral spirits for a few days then leave pressed in a vise for a few more days. I mean really press it too, I'll beat the handle around with a hammer. This is the only way a leather tip can be taken seriously for jumping & breaking. They feel near phenolic hard...and are IPT legal. Be careful to use sharp tools when trimming/shaping, you don't want to stress the tip and make it uncompress. I need to quit giving secrets away...





I have had that happen, but only to about 2 in the last 3-4 years, so I just replaced for free. It's like the tip Is so hard/brittle that a chunk of the corner pops right off.


Besides a sharp tool like you mentioned, I also only cut toward the tip/ferrule when using a tool in the toolpost. I do cut the other way, but that's when I use the razor method for the last part.

I use a vice to press, but I once knew a guy that smashed tips with a hammer to compress them.
 
Varney Cues said:
Be very careful with the Sumo & WB tips. They are hard but they are somewhat brittle...and very often when breaking/jumping with them they will explode a little chunk of leather off the edge. I totally quit recommending them for j/b cues. Better choice is the Xtra hard Talisman. Or even a better choice is to take a Triangle, soak it in mineral spirits for a few days then leave pressed in a vise for a few more days. I mean really press it too, I'll beat the handle around with a hammer. This is the only way a leather tip can be taken seriously for jumping & breaking. They feel near phenolic hard...and are IPT legal. Be careful to use sharp tools when trimming/shaping, you don't want to stress the tip and make it uncompress. I need to quit giving secrets away...
Varney - Ever use Buttermilk?
 
billiardbum said:
Varney - Ever use Buttermilk?
No but my grandfather did...with a big piece of cornbread...LOL!
Seriously I know the "milkdud" trick works...cranberry juice works well too, something about the acid. The secret for keeping them extremely hard is the amount of vise pressure and being cautious not to stress the leather when trimming.
 
Varney Cues said:
Be very careful with the Sumo & WB tips. They are hard but they are somewhat brittle...and very often when breaking/jumping with them they will explode a little chunk of leather off the edge. I totally quit recommending them for j/b cues.

I have my second Sumo tip on my playing cue and I like it a lot. However, my first Sumo did exactly what you said - I was hitting a shot with side english and a little chunk of leather blew off the edge. It wasn't a particularly forceful stroke either - nothing like a break shot. This happened in the first minutes of play. So far no problem with the second.
 
Here too

Cue Crazy said:
I have had that happen, but only to about 2 in the last 3-4 years, so I just replaced for free. It's like the tip Is so hard/brittle that a chunk of the corner pops right off.


Besides a sharp tool like you mentioned, I also only cut toward the tip/ferrule when using a tool in the toolpost. I do cut the other way, but that's when I use the razor method for the last part.

I use a vice to press, but I once knew a guy that smashed tips with a hammer to compress them.
I have had the same experience with these tips Greg and use the same remedy...replace the tip for free.

Like most tips in that wholesale price range, there are going to be some bad ones..no getting by that. But, what is also very important is to cut the tip down lower than you would most playing tips and that will prevent it from happening as well. I don't really see a need for a full tip when breaking or jumping.

Gene
 
Cuedog said:
I have had the same experience with these tips Greg and use the same remedy...replace the tip for free.

Like most tips in that wholesale price range, there are going to be some bad ones..no getting by that. But, what is also very important is to cut the tip down lower than you would most playing tips and that will prevent it from happening as well. I don't really see a need for a full tip when breaking or jumping.

Gene

Sumo's and w/b tips are a lot thicker than most other tips. Many people make the mistake of installing them and leaving them to thick. The thinner the shaft - the shorter the tip should be. A pretty good rule of thumb is that the height should be no greater than 1/3 the width of the tip.

By the way, I feel that a Sumo is about the best leather tip I've installed on break or b/j cues.

Dick
 
Yep, I Aggree, some tips just have bad ones in the batch, I try to catch them before hand, but not always easy to foresee. With standard tips, I can handle just replacing them, but if it was a premium tip, then I may reconsider carrying that brand if It was to happen alot. I feel about the same way on the thickness, not only cause of shrooning, but seems If they are too thick, then it gives extra leverage and increases the chances of the tips popping off. I usually just crown them down though, rather then cutting before installation. I do the same thing on a playing cue, because I feel they play better that way also.
To be honest I have never tried sumo, but have been thinking about trying them out. Guess I should get a couple of boxes, since they seem to be so popular. Greg C
 
Agreed

rhncue said:
Sumo's and w/b tips are a lot thicker than most other tips. Many people make the mistake of installing them and leaving them to thick. The thinner the shaft - the shorter the tip should be. A pretty good rule of thumb is that the height should be no greater than 1/3 the width of the tip.

By the way, I feel that a Sumo is about the best leather tip I've installed on break or b/j cues.

Dick
Sounds like we agree 100% Dick. Thanks for the confirmation.

Gene
 
> Back in the early 90's,there was a guy named Bill Howard in Chicago that came out with a brand of synthetic tips under the Future brand. They came in a soft,2 different mediums and a hard. The hard one really breaks the balls great,and bites the cue ball as well,making it easier to squat the cueball. They were pre-domed,and came with grooves cut into them similar to what you see on certain phenolics. They STUNK when cutting them down,ever melt a piece of black electrical tape? Material-wise,I think it was some kind of really dense PVC,hence the smell. I remember cutting one down before I had a lathe,using one of those Porper pencil-eraser cutters it peeled like an apple. You had to rough up the back on these with at least 100 or 80 grit paper,and glue them twice. I always cut mine down really thin,and eventually they would develop stress cracks in the edges,but if you left them the original thickness it would never be an issue. They are HARD,but not so hard they sound like breaking glass or couldn't be shaped/scuffed/tapped for chalk to stick. I still have a couple,and MIGHT part with one. Tommy D.


> I got to thinking about if after I posted,and wanted to add this. At the time these tips were fairly common,the BCA,PBTA,WPBA,APA and McDermott Tour all had it worded in their jump cue rules that the tip had to be leather or an accepted synthetic leather. These tips fit that criteria 100%,and were accepted by all tours. One of the reasons for the eventual jump cue ban was the "tire buddy" version,which was a 15-20 inch rod of aluminum or wood that looked nothing like a cue,more like the stick you use to beat on your tires to see if they are flat or not,LOL. They had a great big,chalkless PHENOLIC tip on them. There was also a thing Allen Hopkins marketed called a Jump Tip,which was a oversized joint protector with one of these tips on it.
 
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