Lord help me

DeeRay86

Active member
I attempted my first taper pass and forgot a large piece of math which made it comical, glad I got a video of it. Forget about that, where should my rounter bit be? I positioned the blades on the cross slide to barley brush the material to start. Am I wrong? I'm sure there's better ways. But, im determined to get the taper set on my Chris Hightower midsize. Thanks
 
I attempted my first taper pass and forgot a large piece of math which made it comical, glad I got a video of it. Forget about that, where should my rounter bit be? I positioned the blades on the cross slide to barley brush the material to start. Am I wrong? I'm sure there's better ways. But, im determined to get the taper set on my Chris Hightower midsize. Thanks
Taper bar or offsetting the tailstock?
Either way you could mount a dial indicator where your tool post is, and measure center to center if they're the same size shank.
And sometimes you just need to take a break from it and clear your head.
 
Taper bar or offsetting the tailstock?
Either way you could mount a dial indicator where your tool post is, and measure center to center if they're the same size shank.
And sometimes you just need to take a break from it and clear your head.
Offset tailstock. I just made a stupid mistake.
Yes I just needed to walk away from it.
 
Call me old fashion but I still do a lot of tapering by offsetting the tailstock even though I know it's not the best way to do it. But I have a work around for the inherent problems it will cause. You just figure some of these things out as you move along the journey.

When off setting the tailstock for a taper job the first thing that is required will be that you know you are starting out with 0-0 at both ends of the length before you move the tailstock to start tapering anything. After you're at this point, put the indicator at the tailstock end and you can go either way. Towards you or away from you. It really doesn't matter but you have to understand what is going to happen when going in either direction. One way will make the piece larger and one way will make it smaller at the TS.
Just remember for every amount on the indicator you move the tailstock it's going to either make it TWICE as small or TWICE as large on that end of the piece. (move the TS towards you .020, the piece between centers will become .040 smaller than the headstock end)

One of the other debates that I've had numerous times with other builders is "should you be cutting from the tailstock TOWARDS the headstock or vice versa?
Personal preference, I believe, as to which direction works best for you to get the desired finish cut on the piece involved.
I have always cut head to tail with the larger ends of the piece between centers at the head.
That's just how my brain has always worked AND I get a cut that is next to so smooth that sanding it after the final cut is almost a non needed op but I hit it quick anyway.
Offset tailstock. I just made a stupid mistake.
Yes I just needed to walk away from it.
Walking out of the shop area, making up words that no youngster should ever hear coming from your mouth, throwing things across the shop, calling one of your best friends in the biz of building cues and carrying on a rant till they tell you it's time for them to go eat, just to get you off the phone, is all part the learning experience! :ROFLMAO:
 
Thank you for the input. Im still having issues. My goal is to have a formula for tapering just the forearm, just the handle and just the butt sleeve. Im not a math guy so it fairly frustrating. I bought several pieces of 1.5 by 1.5 scrap from lowes and have ruined half and got some nice tapers out of others. Maybe I'm trying to do to much idk.
 
Thank you for the input. Im still having issues. My goal is to have a formula for tapering just the forearm, just the handle and just the butt sleeve. Im not a math guy so it fairly frustrating. I bought several pieces of 1.5 by 1.5 scrap from lowes and have ruined half and got some nice tapers out of others. Maybe I'm trying to do to much idk.
No problem...
Here's all you have to do. Take a piece of maple the length of your butt. Let's say you want your butt to be 29 long at finished size.
Cut it at your finished taper. Let's use .400 diff as a number. 850-1250
After you have it tapered to finish size. Mark it at the length of your fore, handle, back sleeve. You can measure both ends of each piece and write them down. These are the offset numbers you will use to taper each piece before assembly of all 3 pieces. It doesn't matter how oversized they are if they are on the tapers you have measured.
In fact, when there are oversized by say around .100 - .120, you can put them between centers and cut cylindrical flats on each piece to be able to chuck them up with the centers of each piece on the center line of your lathe to do any work necessary to assemble them so they go together with ZERO wobble.
Once you are able to that, you have achieved.
 
As an alternative to @BarenbruggeCues sage measurement advice, the math is easy to plug into a calculator.

Step 1:

Subtract your joint diameter from your butt diameter. Write this number down. Using Mr. Barengrugge's numbers;

1.250 - 0.850 = 0.400

Step 2:

Measure from the joint end to the start and end of the handle of the cue you are turning. Let's say that you have a 12.5" forearm and a 12" handle, that means the handle starts at 12.5" and ends at 24.5" from the joint.

Step 3:

Divide each of the two numbers from step 2 by the total length of the cue:

Top of handle:

12.5/29 = 0.431034

Bottom of handle:

24.5/29 = 0.844828

Write these numbers down.

Explanation--These two numbers are the percentage of the distance from the joint to the end of the cue.

Step 4:

Multiply the two numbers from above by the number from step 1.

0.400 x 0.431034 = 0.172

0.400 x 0.844828 = 0.338

Step 5:

Add those two numbers to the joint diameter:

0.850 + 0.172 = 1.022

0.850 + 0.338 = 1.188

These are the diameters at the top and bottom of the handle. Obviously the bottom of the forearm is the same as the top of the handle (some error will result with the rings, but if they aren't extremely thick, it will be negligible. Similar for the butt sleeve and the bottom of the handle, but a long buttcap may be enough reason to repeat the steps above for the distance to the top of the cap.
 
I forgot to mention I only pre taper the fore and handle before assembly of the two. On the back sleeve, I've always just kept it in cylinder form until it has been installed on the back side for full length tapering. However, I can remove it at any given point thru the tapering process because I thread both collars on both ends of the butt. Not only does this provide the flexibility to disassemble at any given time in the build process but also acts as a clamp when it finally does come to the final stage of gluing the entire butt together.
 
I'd also suggest a hard stop for the zero, if there isn't one already.
I've always done it the old fashion way. Get it close and then cut an 18 inch piece of maple on a straight cylinder cut...measure both ends and adjust from there. Just make sure you mark on of the ends of the round tho so you remember which way to make the adjustment. 😅

Some guys I know have a metal or phenolic rod to run the indicator down so they can do this without making an actual cut.
Like I said....I can be old fashion at times. But still like to look at these 👙when I'm at the beach. ;)
 
I've always done it the old fashion way. Get it close and then cut an 18 inch piece of maple on a straight cylinder cut...measure both ends and adjust from there. Just make sure you mark on of the ends of the round tho so you remember which way to make the adjustment. 😅

Some guys I know have a metal or phenolic rod to run the indicator down so they can do this without making an actual cut.
Like I said....I can be old fashion at times. But still like to look at these 👙when I'm at the beach. ;)

I've never tapered by offsetting. I always had at least a taper bar. I've spent a lot of time aligning things, tho.

The thing about your method is that you are always verifying, not relying on a quick method that can fail. I like it.

Even with a stop, it would be wise to verify, there is always a chance it got hit or has a bit of debris.
 
I've never tapered by offsetting. I always had at least a taper bar. I've spent a lot of time aligning things, tho.

The thing about your method is that you are always verifying, not relying on a quick method that can fail. I like it.

Even with a stop, it would be wise to verify, there is always a chance it got hit or has a bit of debris.
I have no choice with my antique setup. I use the same lathe for tapering my butts and my shafts. One on a taper bar and one by offset.
Just never got around too doing them both on a bar which I should because honestly that's the best way to get it done.
 
Doesn't seem to have held you back any...
You know it's not about being the best or even being better than anyone else. It really just boils down to being able to use your brain and figure things out.
I never had turned on any type of metal lathe or milling machine or knew the first thing about G-code or CNC.
These are all things I taught myself (with the treasured help of a few close friends at times in need).
1995 and 2 weeks into my short apprenticeship and the first challenge was thrown at me. Granted most all I had done so far was sweep the floors and pick up stuff.
We both were looking through the Billiards Encyclopedia and in there is a picture of some Gus Szamboti's forearms glued up in the squares but before they were turned round.
Was challenged to be able to make a fixture that I could cut those squares on a table saw in the compound cut fashion they were cut in and to be able to duplicate those squares best as I could. After buying a table saw (my first piece of cue building equipment) and about 2 weeks later and a fixture model #101 and then a fixture model #201 and we were cutting squares and gluing points in them.

I later figured out how to add the butterfly cuts on the table saw and built a fixture to achieve that also.
Were the points and flies perfect? Not really, but I then taught myself how to adjust the centers on both ends to be able to get them pretty darn close.
Those fixtures are still around the shop here somewhere with a few of those original glued up squares that never got turned round along with a few cut squares that never had points glued in them.

When I started this journey I thought it would just be the cats meow to be able to sell a pool cue for $1000! I never sold a finished cue till approx 4 years after I got started. The very first finished cue I ever sold was for $1000. The second cue I ever sold was $1200 because it had an ivory joint and butt cap. They were both purchased by someone who had never heard of me or had we ever met or spoke previously. He still has them both today (but may have passed them both on to his business partner if I understood what I had been told.)

This was all before I knew the internet existed and if you needed some help in building a cue butt or turning a shaft, you'd better have a friend that you could phone and talk to that already had that experience under their belt or be able to figure it out yourself cause there was no AZB.
I'm telling this story not to make people think I'm great or even that I'm good. I'm only the same as most. I wake up in the morning and put my pants on one leg at a time. The biggest difference is my pants are jean shorts 99% of the time.

I'm telling it to let people know if you really want to do something, put your mind to it and figure it out. It will require time in testing and wasting wood and more time testing and wasting more wood. Going to sleep at night thinking about what it is you have accomplished in your day of testing and waking in the morning with thoughts of what you can do to make what you learned yesterday better.
Do this and it'll be lessons you'll never forget for the rest of your journey!
 
You know it's not about being the best or even being better than anyone else. It really just boils down to being able to use your brain and figure things out.
I never had turned on any type of metal lathe or milling machine or knew the first thing about G-code or CNC.
These are all things I taught myself (with the treasured help of a few close friends at times in need).
1995 and 2 weeks into my short apprenticeship and the first challenge was thrown at me. Granted most all I had done so far was sweep the floors and pick up stuff.
We both were looking through the Billiards Encyclopedia and in there is a picture of some Gus Szamboti's forearms glued up in the squares but before they were turned round.
Was challenged to be able to make a fixture that I could cut those squares on a table saw in the compound cut fashion they were cut in and to be able to duplicate those squares best as I could. After buying a table saw (my first piece of cue building equipment) and about 2 weeks later and a fixture model #101 and then a fixture model #201 and we were cutting squares and gluing points in them.

I later figured out how to add the butterfly cuts on the table saw and built a fixture to achieve that also.
Were the points and flies perfect? Not really, but I then taught myself how to adjust the centers on both ends to be able to get them pretty darn close.
Those fixtures are still around the shop here somewhere with a few of those original glued up squares that never got turned round along with a few cut squares that never had points glued in them.

When I started this journey I thought it would just be the cats meow to be able to sell a pool cue for $1000! I never sold a finished cue till approx 4 years after I got started. The very first finished cue I ever sold was for $1000. The second cue I ever sold was $1200 because it had an ivory joint and butt cap. They were both purchased by someone who had never heard of me or had we ever met or spoke previously. He still has them both today (but may have passed them both on to his business partner if I understood what I had been told.)

This was all before I knew the internet existed and if you needed some help in building a cue butt or turning a shaft, you'd better have a friend that you could phone and talk to that already had that experience under their belt or be able to figure it out yourself cause there was no AZB.
I'm telling this story not to make people think I'm great or even that I'm good. I'm only the same as most. I wake up in the morning and put my pants on one leg at a time. The biggest difference is my pants are jean shorts 99% of the time.

I'm telling it to let people know if you really want to do something, put your mind to it and figure it out. It will require time in testing and wasting wood and more time testing and wasting more wood. Going to sleep at night thinking about what it is you have accomplished in your day of testing and waking in the morning with thoughts of what you can do to make what you learned yesterday better.
Do this and it'll be lessons you'll never forget for the rest of your journey!

Your start is similar to mine. Had never used a lathe, started in 1996, made my own jigs. I had never met another cuemaker until years later. My first cues sold for cost of materials (to friends), then a few for about $500. Then I moved and had a career and no place to make them for a while...and no desire, as I got so into competitive foosball that I completely left the pool scene.

I did have the benefit of having a pretty well stocked semi-professional cabinet shop to start out in.

I completely agree with you--it can be done with determination. I'm proud of myself, but I don't think I'm divine (even if it may sound like it at times). I was fortunate to work for a decent amount of time as an engineer in an elite automation company, so I was around a lot of materials, engineers, and machinists. I became closer friends with many of the machinists than with most engineers and was able to talk to them about very high precision machining.

I never intended to go the professional route in cue making, and I remain a hobbyist. I enjoy it immensely, I've enjoyed teaching two people to make cues, and I see it as an investment in my continued engineering career. I believe that there are too many engineers who can't make or assemble things.

Have fun and keep making masterpieces!
 
Back in the Stone Age I did all my tapering using the offset tail stock method. I made a set of blocks that bolted to the tail stock and I would just offset it until it hit the adjustment screw. No measuring or indicating needed. Still have the machine so I unwrapped it and snapped a pic.
bfdd5fc84693072bdfa0f40f42f50fd6.jpg
 
Back in the Stone Age I did all my tapering using the offset tail stock method. I made a set of blocks that bolted to the tail stock and I would just offset it until it hit the adjustment screw. No measuring or indicating needed. Still have the machine so I unwrapped it and snapped a pic.
bfdd5fc84693072bdfa0f40f42f50fd6.jpg
Talk about the "STONE AGES" HAHAHA!
That lathe needs a new home...looks severely neglected.
 
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