Lousy attitude great talent

[Snapshot9]

Gremlin, you da man ....

Good one Gremlin ...

Every good player that has some kind of talent gets pissed off now and then ... the only ones that don't are the ones used to losing ...

Yeah, Earl is arrogant, a little brash, and damn good ... Kind of like the rest of us Americans if you ask anyone outside of the U.S.A., but we get the job done, no matter what it is....

 

[hemicudas]

Gremlin? Have you another drink Scott, you'll be OK>

 

[loco]

I like to think of Earl as the Dennis Rodman of pool. Just like mr Rodman he has managed to upst almost everyone who has seen him play, But he also puts in more effort and work on his game and love him or hate him he is one of the best in the game. And remeber this everyone gets a little strange when they are under stress and pressure and Earls drive to win causes him to put tons of stress and pressure on himself, but hey what ever works for the man, in my opinion what I think of Earl changes from day to day. the first time I met him I thought he was an ass, but the second time he actually remeberd my name and how much of an ass can you be if you take the time to remeber the fans you meet

 

[LC3]

Re: Earl is great for the game

The comparison of Earl with McEnroe and Earnhardt makes a good point. Look at the way people still eat up Mike Tyson (not to compare Earl to a criminal). We can get into debates about whether other people's actions justify Earl's, but that won't change who Earl is and the inspiration and profit he brings to pro pool. A lot of people jump on his case now, but there's no denying that he's a legend in his own time.

Charlie Williams and his group were trying to ban Earl recently...

What group is this? What was the basic wording of their complaint against Earl?

 

[manlyshot]

Re: Re: Earl is great for the game

What group is this? What was the basic wording of their complaint against Earl?

Here in the U.S. as of late, Charlie Williams, a professional pool player known fondly as "The Korean Dragon," formed the UPA. The acronym UPA has remained the same, but the words have changed several times. Now I believe it is the United States Professional Pool Players Association, with the acronym still being UPA, at least last time I checked. The mission of this group was to unify pool players, have a UPA Tour with points used for ranking, establish one set of rules, and hopefully bring in sorely missed sponsors to elevate tournament payouts. They endeavored to get as many players as they could to join the UPA, and had these pro players sign legally binding contracts. If the pool player does not meet the terms in the contract, i.e., can't make it to a UPA-sanctioned event or have freedom of choice, the pool player is liable and can be sued by the UPA. Some top pro players, trusting Charlie and his good intentions, signed the contracts in good faith and later had to retain attorneys themselves to protect their own individual interests.

Earl Strickland, a professional player, joined the UPA in its original format. Some events transpired one day, and Earl, an American with the freedom to choose -- I still hope -- decided he did not want to be a member of the UPA anymore, did not like the way it was run, did not think it would be good for his future. To present the verbatim colloquy that occurred between Charlie and Earl would be hearsay on my part, but I understand it was not pleasant.

Well, as you can see by all of the publicity -- and usually it is ALL GOOD -- that surrounds Earl, he is a crowd-pleaser, brings in spectators, not to mention he is a living legend in his own right, holding titles too numerous to list in this post.

The UPA, with Charlie Williams, a professional pool player as its president, is upset with Earl Strickland. Several upcoming big-paying tournaments agreed to let UPA sanction them. In return, only UPA members are allowed to shoot in the UPA-sanctioned events, and if you are not a member, you may pay $25, a one-time fee, to the UPA for the privilege of shooting in the sanctioned tournament. The tournaments, by the way, were created by the promoters, not UPA, but after UPA sanctioning, these independent events became part of the UPA Tour.

Whereupon, there lies the controversy. If I were in Earl's shoes, I would pack up my cue stick and belongings and move, reading the unkind comments posted in this forum and others, especially the cruel and often disparaging ones coming from the very same Americans he represented at the World Pool Championship. He is a GREAT golfer, I hear. He is young and has a long road ahead of him. He sure would make a lot more money playing golf and could live happily ever after, without all of this bunk.

ManlyShot

 

[jjinfla]

Do I take this to mean that an event that is sanctioned by the UPA must ban Earl Strickland from participating in it? The TD might say that all Earl has to do is join the UPA to play, but from what I read here the UPA does not have to accept his application to join, and in all probability the Ego's of the powers to be at the UPA will not accept his application.

And this is supposed to be good for Pool?

What TD would not want Earl to play in his tournament?

It would be interesting to see what would happen if Earl showed up at a sanctioned event and agreed to pay the $25 UPA tax and see what happens.

Could it be that the UPA players go along with banning Earl from their events because it gives them a better chance to win the event? Which one of them looks forward to matching up against Earl. Kinda makes me wonder what their real motive really is for going along with the ban on Earl.

I am sure that Tommy Kennedy would rather play Sarah Ellerby than Earl Strickland. And of course Ray Martin probably wouldn't want to play either one of them.

Maybe that is the real reason - they are all afraid of Earl.

In four more weeks we will be able to see Earl play Danny Harriman on BcTv. Narrated by Buddy Hall and Bill Incardona.

How good it is!

Jake

 

[manlyshot]

Do I take this to mean that an event that is sanctioned by the UPA must ban Earl Strickland from participating in it? The TD might say that all Earl has to do is join the UPA to play, but from what I read here the UPA does not have to accept his application to join, and in all probability the Ego's of the powers to be at the UPA will not accept his application.

Earl Strickland is not the only professional player to be affected by the UPA-sanctioned events. Capital City Classic had the good sense to recognize the effect of the $25 one-time fee, and so that is no longer a stop sign. However, with the new categorization of "local non-pro" and "local pro," it has created another difficulty for non-UPA professional pool players. If you are a "local pro," you are not entitled to play in a sanctioned event by paying the mandatory $25. Is this directed at Earl? I don't know, but it will be interesting to see what happens in a couple of weeks at the first Big Apple 9-ball tournament, another independent event that was sanctioned by the UPA after the fact. The $25 one-time fee is in force for this wonderful event.

ManlyShot

 

[DoomCue]

Ahh yes, JJ is accomplishing his only goal in life, which is bashing Charlie and the UPA. JJ says the UPA players are scared to play Earl, that's why he's no longer in the UPA. Wrong.

Earl CHOSE to quit the UPA. It was his decision. Your statement to the effect that Earl was booted so UPA players have a better chance of winning tournaments is ludicrous and childish. The only fear members of the UPA have of Earl is whether or not he would tear down another tour like he did the CPBT.

djb

 

[manlyshot]

Ahh yes, JJ is accomplishing his only goal in life, which is bashing Charlie and the UPA.

"Bashing Charlie and the UPA"? Well, I am grateful to see that I do not post here as a minority of one. The UPA-mandated regulations do not affect the general pool-playing public. So the very few people the UPA is targeting, now with their new categorization of "non-local pro" and "local pro," a recent development, I might add, and THEIR definition of "professional pool player," it is hard for me to see it as anything other than an intentional discriminatory act, IMO.

When I contacted the TD for the Big Apple 9-ball tournament, I was informed that I should send the entry fee and green fee to the TD, and that I would have to deal with UPA upon arrival. IT IS INCREDULOUS THAT THE TD, WHO CREATED THIS TOURNAMENT, CAN'T HAVE THE FINAL SAY ON WHO IS ALLOWED TO COMPETE. Wow, if the UPA does not think that the pre-paid pool player is worthy of UPA membership or that this same pool player is a "local pro" and is not entitled to the waiver of the $25 tax, then this guy is in for a huge disappointment. Gee, at $130-plus a night for a week-long event in New York City, $300-plus for entry fee and green fee, depending on when you send it in, all of the associated traveling costs, this tournament is no longer a viable option for the ones on the UPA hit list.

Discrimination stinks, and if it walks like a duck -- well, you know the rest.

ManlyShot

 

[knudsenjj]

Look.
Everyone is argueing in circles in this thread. The fact of the matter is that after 24 years of playing professional pool the way he always has, Earl Strickland is still here. He is still on top of the pool world and I don't think that anyone can dispute that. You can argue till your breath runs out about the style of his play, or his attitude. You can spread rumors of his being banned(true or false), you can say that he is bad for the game. In the end what do you have?? Earl Strickland on the TV table at any tournement that he plays in that is on TV. Any match that he plays in that isn't on TV has every eye in the house on it. What does that tell you? If he was such a detriment to the game would they show his matches every chance they get? If he is such a black eye to the game of pool, why does everyone want to see him play? I know some of you will say that it is to see him act like an a**, but guess what, I think more people come to see him act like a so called like an a** and win than they come to watch other matches, but doesn't that get them into the game? Isn't that what everyone who plays the game wants? To get more people to watch the sport and become interested? Say what you will about Earl Strickland, but in the end he will still be playing pool and everyone will want to watch him. PERIOD.

 

[LC3]

I just read the UPA's Web site. Am I correct in my feeling that:

- the UPA puts a strangle hold on anything it sanctions?

- they micromanage the players even in their personal lives?

- the rules about where UPA players can and cannot play or be employed are intrusive and, as manlyshot says, discriminatory?

Please tell me if I'm wrong, because I don't want to misunderstand the situation.

 

[jjinfla]

Ahh yes, JJ is accomplishing his only goal in life, which is bashing Charlie and the UPA. djb

A typical debating tactic used in a hopeless case Doomcue. If you can't come up with a plausible answer then attack the person stating the argument.

As for bashing Charlie and the UPA I have never stated anything that is false or made up. I have nothing against either CW or the Organization. When they started a couple years ago I thought it was a great idea but I have seen them doing things that just seem absurd. All I have done is state the obvious which they themselves post here and on their website.

Am I not allowed to point out what I believe is wrong with their organization? Or their method? The way they constantly change their own contracts. The way they appear to strongarm a TD to be santioned by the UPA. And now they have changed their name. I suppose that cost them a bundle because they have to buy all new stationery, new checks, new business cards, etc.

I did it as constructive criticism in the hopes that it might help them improve their organization.

At this point I don't even know who the head of the UPA is. Do they have a board of directors? Are they elected by the membership? Do they have by-laws? Or are they just appointed by someone? Do they have meetings where the membership is invited? Or does the membership just fall in line like sheep and do whatever they are told to do?

The WPBA had some problems and now they have new leadership and they seem to have corrected their problems (real, perceived or imaginary) and seem to be doing quite well. Perhaps the UPA might do better with new leadership.

jjinfla

 

[hemicudas]

Remember, it could allways be worse. The BEST somtimes even spit at the crowd when they are booed.

 

[manlyshot]

I just read the UPA's Web site. Am I correct in my feeling that:

- the UPA puts a strangle hold on anything it sanctions?

- they micromanage the players even in their personal lives?

- the rules about where UPA players can and cannot play or be employed are intrusive and, as manlyshot says, discriminatory?

Please tell me if I'm wrong, because I don't want to misunderstand the situation.

Those are the sad state of affairs, I'm afraid. The UPA website speaks for itself.

It would be refreshing to see an organization represented by retired pro players on the board of directors, for instance, who could remain neutral and unbiased about player selection, rules, regulations, et cetera.

A pro player is currently president of the UPA, and it is his responsibility to administrate in a fair and just manner. So far, I have been horrified by the events that have taken place behind the curtain, and as I said previously, it is DIRECTLY TARGETED at certain pool players. Make no mistake about it!

ManlyShot

 

[Rickw]

Mike,

Sounds like the argument is turning towards CW and the UPA. I don't have an opinion about them. My intent with all the posts I submitted on this thread is to admonish some of the negative behaviors Earl exhibits from time to time because I think they are hurtful to Earl, his opponent, the fans and pool in general. I am not trying to single Earl out, however he just happens to be the one player that most people have heard about and know what behaviors I'm talking about.

I think it is really the fault of the TD's for not running a tighter tournament and disallowing negative behaviors from anyone, not just Earl. At the same time, I do sympathize with the tournament directors too. I was playing in a tournament in Reno and the tournament officials tried very hard to enforce the rules but there were so many poeple breaking them, it was an almost impossible task. I just think we have to clean this game up and absolutely not tolerate inappropriate behavior from the people that play it.

Tony Anigoni made a decision to sanction some players in Reno for doing something that was deemed by him to be inappropriate. He took a lot of flack for that but I'm proud of him for weathering the storm and standing firm. More TD's need to do the same. It's not easy but it can and should be done. If the TD's start holding firm like Tony, pretty soon Earl will stop doing what he knows he can't get away with, and so will a lot of other people. Who knows, maybe we will be able to attract real fans to our tournaments instead of just players and their families.

 

[LC3]

Tony Anigoni made a decision to sanction some players in Reno for doing something that was deemed by him to be inappropriate.

Sorry, you lost me there. Do you mean he decided not to sanction them?

 

[DoomCue]

A typical debating tactic used in a hopeless case Doomcue. If you can't come up with a plausible answer then attack the person stating the argument.

C'mon JJ, if I were attacking you, you'd know it. My plausible answer was right there for you to read. Did you miss it? Guess so....

As for bashing Charlie and the UPA I have never stated anything that is false or made up. I have nothing against either CW or the Organization. When they started a couple years ago I thought it was a great idea but I have seen them doing things that just seem absurd. All I have done is state the obvious which they themselves post here and on their website.

Are you delusional? The reason I replied to your last post was because it wasn't factual. It was complete conjecture stated as fact. You have a definite vendetta against CW. In topics that have absolutely nothing to do with the UPA or with Charlie, you make it a point to try to bash them. Here are a few instances:

Predator shaft thread: "What's this? Another first time poster who is touting the Preditor. Who says charlie doesn't read these boards?" <-- How does this add anything substantive to a thread about Predator shafts? You just used this as an excuse to bash CW since he's sponsored by Predator.

It's Earl again thread: "I am surprised that Charlie hasn't jumped in here to set you guys straight." <-- This was in reference to crowd interaction between Earl and the crowd. What does Charlie have to do with these things? Does he encourage Earl to act the way he does?

BCtv Schedule on New Website thread: "I'll bet those idiots who boycotted the 2002 US Open are banging their heads with their cue sticks and heard saying, 'I cudda been on TV; I cudda been on TV.'" <-- Somehow, a TV schedule posting is the place for you to bash the boycotters, people who believed in their convictions enough to throw away a chance at a $50K pay day.

Men's Florida Pro Tour thread: "Was surprised to see Charlie Williams there. Wouldn't think that he would play in a non-sanctioned event. I guess that only applies to the other members of the UPA." <-- You know there's an open waiver for any non-UPA event, yet you made this statement in order to make it seem like CW doesn't follow the UPA's rules. Childish and disingenuous.

As far as your not stating things that are "false or made up", here are a few more examples.

Unified Tour System - UPDATE thread: "The UPA dumped Earl and you see what it got them." <-- Not true, Earl QUIT.

Hohman defeats Strickland thread: "Now I wasn't there Sunday but I heard that when it came time to pay off Earl after he was eliminated Charlie didn't have the money ready. And he couldn't get it for several hours, or it would be mailed. What was that all about? And that was when Earl left disgusted, removed his UPA patch, and deposited it in the garbage can on his way out." <-- Once again, complete conjecture. Your statement was later corrected. At least you admitted you weren't even there.

It's Earl Again thread: "How about all those rowdy fans there cheering on Davis and sharking Earl?" <-- Obviously, you didn't watch the match. Those "rowdy fans" were cheering just as hard for Earl as for Davis. Earl just decided that the fans were against him from the start, you just have to look at his face when he comes out for the introduction.

UPA Sanctioned Events Question thread: "You won't get an answer from CW because I am sure that the UPA attorney told CW that nothing good can come from him answering questions on this forum - at least in his own name." <-- You probably do believe this, that wouldn't surprise me. Question for you: have you talked to CW and asked him this? If not, then this is nothing more than a bald-faced lie.

Lousy attitude - great talent: "Could it be that the UPA players go along with banning Earl from their events because it gives them a better chance to win the event? Which one of them looks forward to matching up against Earl. Kinda makes me wonder what their real motive really is for going along with the ban on Earl.....

Maybe that is the real reason - they are all afraid of Earl." <-- This is fact? Hmm. Maybe you need to take a look at the world beaters on the UPA touring pro list and tell me exactly which ones have told you they're so scared of Earl.

These are examples of your "facts." Fact is the opposite of "false or made up." Perhaps you need to look up the word. You can find a definition HERE .

Am I not allowed to point out what I believe is wrong with their organization? Or their method? The way they constantly change their own contracts. The way they appear to strongarm a TD to be santioned by the UPA. And now they have changed their name. I suppose that cost them a bundle because they have to buy all new stationery, new checks, new business cards, etc.

I did it as constructive criticism in the hopes that it might help them improve their organization.

At this point I don't even know who the head of the UPA is. Do they have a board of directors? Are they elected by the membership? Do they have by-laws? Or are they just appointed by someone? Do they have meetings where the membership is invited? Or does the membership just fall in line like sheep and do whatever they are told to do?

The WPBA had some problems and now they have new leadership and they seem to have corrected their problems (real, perceived or imaginary) and seem to be doing quite well. Perhaps the UPA might do better with new leadership.

jjinfla

I see absolutely nothing wrong with you stating your opinion - that's exactly the purpose of an open forum. However, attempting to state your opinion or your conjecture as fact IS wrong. You also definitely have a vendetta against CW and the UPA. Constructive criticism implies that you've made a suggestion to better the organization. When have you done that? As for the questions you have, all you have to do is visit the website. If you can't get an answer there, send them an email. I did, and I had no problem having my questions answered.

djb

 

[Blackjack]

Quote Doomcue:
"Constructive criticism implies that you've made a suggestion to better the organization. When have you done that? As for the questions you have, all you have to do is visit the website. If you can't get an answer there, send them an email. I did, and I had no problem having my questions answered. "

David,
The UPA Website is not very informative at all. I'm not so sure they are as open to suggestion as you have said here and in other forums. I have made plenty of suggestions that would alleviate a lot of their PR problems, and still they ride off in the same direction as before. They may have answered your questions privately, but they need to answer questions publicly, or be more clear in their intentions. Expecting all of us to call or e-mail the UPA is ridiculous. If they are leading the way, they should act like it.

 

[jjinfla]

Aw doomcue, you actually wasted all that time looking up my posts? Gee, I am impressed that you value my opinion so much that you have to find fault in all my statements. LOL. Only point I want to remind you of is that it is not a lie if a person states something that he believes is fact. Which is my postion. And if you ever do talk to Charlie I am sure he will tell you that I have not posted an out and out lie either about him or the UPA. And, if he was honest, he could explain to you how every post of mine you listed could be right. But it is not worth my bother. And by listing my posts you do point out to me that I have been posting way too much on this site. So it is time for me to give you and everybody a break and take a nice vacation from posting. Besides, my game has really improved lately and it has become really enjoyable, and relaxing. So I will spend more time doing rather than talking about pool. And then there is quite a lot of pool on TV for me to watch. Especially all those guys from the 2002 US Open. LOL. Don't forget to watch Tommy Kennedy next week. Jake---on hiatus until at least out of the top 50 posters.

 

[Reno]

The way I see it is...until you claim FIVE U.S. Open Nine Ball Titles, no one really cares what your opinion is OF a FIVE time U.S Open Nine Ball Champion. Do ANY of you know what it takes to achieve that degree of success???

I cannot understand how you people can judge Mr. Strickland. I would assume that at least nine out of ten of you do not know him personally. Maybe 99 of 100. I have never met the man in my life. All I know is that he is a FIVE time U.S. Open Nine Ball Champion. In my book, he can say whatever he wants. He can act however he wants. As long as we can continue to recieve the shear pleasure of watching him hit balls. You people keep complaining and he just may pull a Jean Bulukas on us, and we'll never see him play again. All I am saying is, enjoy him for what he's worth. Remember, there weren't a lot of people that liked McEnroe when he went off on temper tantrums. But nowadays, we look back on what we had and we smile.