vicdotcom said:Nothing is funnier than going to a pool hall and having a perdator-junkie shoot with a regular cue and then blame the cue for their missed shots. Its funny now many times I hear "ohh if I had my predator I would have made that shot". QUOTE]
thats me.although i would never say it, i would definately think it.
low deflection shaft respect
- Thread starter Ant812
- Start date
This topic brings up another issue in my mind! Is it fair to compare Willie Mosconi's high run with a regular cue to the high runs of today with the high tech cues that exist??????
What would Willie Mosconi have been able to do with the better equipement????? should the record books have a star next to them or (*) possibly???
I think this topic is pandora's box. Where does it end??? The need for standard equipement is so great for record keeping and no one wants to tackle the issue!!!!! From pool room to pool room the table height varies depending on how they have adjusted the levelling system. Pocket Size is a guessing game as well and not to mention 80/20 blends of cloth or 70/30 or 100% wool. So, many variables have been left un defined!!!!
Just some food for thought as this just popped into my mind as I was reading it.
Kid
Dynomite
What would Willie Mosconi have been able to do with the better equipement????? should the record books have a star next to them or (*) possibly???
I think this topic is pandora's box. Where does it end??? The need for standard equipement is so great for record keeping and no one wants to tackle the issue!!!!! From pool room to pool room the table height varies depending on how they have adjusted the levelling system. Pocket Size is a guessing game as well and not to mention 80/20 blends of cloth or 70/30 or 100% wool. So, many variables have been left un defined!!!!
Just some food for thought as this just popped into my mind as I was reading it.
Kid
Dynomite
Interesting comments. I learned how to play with a high deflection shafts. Then I became obsessed with smaller diameter shafts, so I ordered a Z shaft. Been playing with it for 2 years, absolutely loved it. But I cracked a ferrule.
I immediately ordered new Z2, didn't bother with repairs to my original Z. It took 3 weeks for Z2 to arrive. In between I played with standard maple 12.75mm shafts. Yes, I played slightly poorer because I didn't really put any time to adjust to it properly. I could but didn't really want to because I knew my Z2 would arrive soon. So it did. I was happy once again.
Well after 4 months the ferrule on my new Z2 simply fell apart. Sent it to Predator factory in Florida. I'm still waiting for it to arrive, they have some issues with ferrule material quality. In the mean time I have also sent my original Z shaft for repairs.
So, for the past two months I've been playing with regular shafts, house cues, 314's, break cues. But I always end up using different cue...sometimes I borrow from someone, sometimes I take a house cue. I'm having to readjust almost every few days. But I never fully commit to either cue because I expect my Z2/Z shafts to arrive any day. To make matters worse, sometimes I also play other billiard disciplines, snooker and carom which makes readjusting harder. Needless to say, I had my tip fall off of my snooker cue several times already which forced me to switch to a snooker house cue in a middle of the game. Thank the lord I don't own a carom cue (yet)...I managed to crack a tip on a club carom cue a few days ago (tried some of Sayginer's strokes...)...
I'm just having a real bad luck with my equipment...
I immediately ordered new Z2, didn't bother with repairs to my original Z. It took 3 weeks for Z2 to arrive. In between I played with standard maple 12.75mm shafts. Yes, I played slightly poorer because I didn't really put any time to adjust to it properly. I could but didn't really want to because I knew my Z2 would arrive soon. So it did. I was happy once again.
Well after 4 months the ferrule on my new Z2 simply fell apart. Sent it to Predator factory in Florida. I'm still waiting for it to arrive, they have some issues with ferrule material quality. In the mean time I have also sent my original Z shaft for repairs.
So, for the past two months I've been playing with regular shafts, house cues, 314's, break cues. But I always end up using different cue...sometimes I borrow from someone, sometimes I take a house cue. I'm having to readjust almost every few days. But I never fully commit to either cue because I expect my Z2/Z shafts to arrive any day. To make matters worse, sometimes I also play other billiard disciplines, snooker and carom which makes readjusting harder. Needless to say, I had my tip fall off of my snooker cue several times already which forced me to switch to a snooker house cue in a middle of the game. Thank the lord I don't own a carom cue (yet)...I managed to crack a tip on a club carom cue a few days ago (tried some of Sayginer's strokes...
)...I'm just having a real bad luck with my equipment...
I can tell by your story (and user name) that you are committed to Predator products, which is A-OK. I had a similar experience to yours, except mine led to my switching back to standard shafts after using Predator for 6 years. I had ordered an OB-1 shaft for my new Coker and while I was waiting for it to arrive I decided to give the standard Coker shaft a legitimate try. So, I shot with nothing but the standard shaft for 2 weeks solid. I loved the "feel" compared with the 314 & Z I'd been using for the past 6 years, and the shotmaking was there too. Over the next month or so I tracked my results in the Q-skill test and a 9-ball test using the standard shaft, the 314 and the OB-1. (I shot for a while with each one to get re-acclimated before logging any results). In summary, I shot nearly the same with all 3 shafts, with possibly a small scoring edge going to the standard Coker shaft. I found that there were some shots I could perform better with the OB-1 & 314 shaft, but there were just as many I could perform better with the standard shaft. However, my position play was much more predictable/controlled with the standard shaft, and I LOVED the "feel" of it in comparison to the others. So, I have been using a standard shaft ever since (almost a year now) and haven't regretted it at all. I think it really just comes down to each individual's comfort level as to which shaft is best for them.
jingle said:
Tap Tap Tap Coker shafts are the stone cold nutz
Info for the undereducated
I'm going to take the risk of getting flamed in this discussion. As someone coming back to this game after 20+ years I recently decide to get a low deflection shaft for my cue ( I won't mention what production cue or shaft as I don't think it is necassarily relevent to my comment on the subject).
My situation is this.
As I progress with my game I've gotten to the point of recognizing shots that require side spin (english) imparted to the c/b in order to get position for the next shot.In these situations with my present cue configuration I need to hit the cue with much more force to get the spin required to move the c/b where I want it. Many times (and I do mean MANY) I will rattle the o/b right out of the pocket and leave the c/b right where I wanted.
So I decided to try a low deflection shaft to see if I can get the spin I need w/out having to hit so hard. Now I may very well be wrong and a different shaft won't help me but I'm willing to make the investment to see the result.
If a low deflection shaft were to help me in this situation I don't believe I'm looking to cheat the learning curve but merely taking advantage of the technology availible.
I'm going to take the risk of getting flamed in this discussion. As someone coming back to this game after 20+ years I recently decide to get a low deflection shaft for my cue ( I won't mention what production cue or shaft as I don't think it is necassarily relevent to my comment on the subject).
My situation is this.
As I progress with my game I've gotten to the point of recognizing shots that require side spin (english) imparted to the c/b in order to get position for the next shot.In these situations with my present cue configuration I need to hit the cue with much more force to get the spin required to move the c/b where I want it. Many times (and I do mean MANY) I will rattle the o/b right out of the pocket and leave the c/b right where I wanted.
So I decided to try a low deflection shaft to see if I can get the spin I need w/out having to hit so hard. Now I may very well be wrong and a different shaft won't help me but I'm willing to make the investment to see the result.
If a low deflection shaft were to help me in this situation I don't believe I'm looking to cheat the learning curve but merely taking advantage of the technology availible.
JimL said:
Agreed, I don't think low deflection shafts are "cheating" in any respect. If they were across-the-board better for everyone's game, then everyone would be using them. How many golfers do you see these days using wooden drivers? Very few where I live, because the performance differences are almost undeniable. I don't think this is the case with low deflection vs standard shafts. For every player that can play well with a low deflection, there is probably another player that plays equally well with a standard shaft.
Jim, when you receive your low deflection shaft, do yourself a favor and chart your test results between the two then you'll know which direction is right for you. You may find (like I did) that the forceful english shots are easier with the low deflection shaft, but some of the more routine shots/shape aren't as consistent. Then again maybe it will be just the ticket for you. Whatever the outcome I hope you find what you're looking for.
JimL said:
All the greats used the best technology available in thier time, why should you be any differnt?
Dont worrie, youd need more than a shaft to shorten the learing curve, so if it helps shorten it just a lil bit, jump on it.
I use to feel the same way about a glove, then I tried one, and I have one in my case if It were to get humid and sticky you'll find me wearing one. I prefere the natural feel, but Id rather wear a glove than get baby powder all over me and my cue. Also helped my game as I tend to play bad when the shaft is so sticky it squeaks when I try to stroke..
SPINDOKTOR
JimL said:
I know by your post that you are not new to pool and pool equiptment, but I have to ask, Were the tips on both shafts the same radius,type, and the same size diameters? All this has a lot to do with the amount of spin placed on the ball. A tip with a dime shape radius will produce spin a lot easier than a flatter tip. Softer, layered tips will also help produce more spin with less effort. So when comparing shafts, its important to compare apples to apples. But sometimes its hard because most people wont change the tips on the shafts everytime they get or try a new cue.
Tips for Making the Adjustment?
I have been shooting with a Predator for the past 1 1/2 years and have been shooting in league for 2 years. Most of my improvement/learning has come from shooting with Predator cues/shafts.
Recently I broke a ferrule and due to the hassle of sending shafts off to Predator and cost involved with having to get new shafts, I have decided to go back to normal shafts.
Now to the point of my post. Because of the switch my accuracy is way off. I know it is not entirely the cues fault as I am sure my mechanics are not what they should be, but I do honestly feel that the low deflection shafts do affect your shooting because you do not have to account for deflection as much.
I plan to be spending A LOT of time at the pool hall getting adjusted to shooting with a "normal" shaft again. Does anyone have any tips or good drills to use that will help me with the adjustment?
I have been shooting with a Predator for the past 1 1/2 years and have been shooting in league for 2 years. Most of my improvement/learning has come from shooting with Predator cues/shafts.
Recently I broke a ferrule and due to the hassle of sending shafts off to Predator and cost involved with having to get new shafts, I have decided to go back to normal shafts.
Now to the point of my post. Because of the switch my accuracy is way off. I know it is not entirely the cues fault as I am sure my mechanics are not what they should be, but I do honestly feel that the low deflection shafts do affect your shooting because you do not have to account for deflection as much.
I plan to be spending A LOT of time at the pool hall getting adjusted to shooting with a "normal" shaft again. Does anyone have any tips or good drills to use that will help me with the adjustment?
StormHotRod300 said:
Storm- Nice rant, and I agree about using the original shaft. I really like the way my Josey shafts play.
However, I must point out that if you're going to make a post like this, you may want change your signature block that says you use a McDermott I1 shaft on your BHQ playing cue.
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socks said:i've been playing with meucci's for around 14 years and i just recently bought a predator cue, and i'll tell you, i'm haveing a really hard time getting used either the lower deflection (not emparting as much throw) or the balance point. not really sure, but its been having a major affect on my ability to make the harder cut shots that i think i previously depended on the deflectin to help throw it in. or maybe i just suck. probably the latter.
could be that it just hits stiffer than the meucci.
The transition to "synthetic" (in whole or in part) shafts is not at all unlike the transition from wooden woods in golf to metal "woods." It took MANY years for the transition to be complete.
IMHO, in time (and I have no clue how long) pure wood shafts will be as obsolete as wood drivers.
Wood is BY FAR not the ideal material from which to build a cue shaft. A LOT depends on the particular plank of wood purchased by the cuemaker and how it is dried and fashioned.
SOME substance...and I have no clue what substance...will entirely replace cue shafts for both reasons of cost, consistency and above all...performance.
Predator is already hinting about some new material. I will take a WILD GUESS that a new material will be generally adopted by the production cue makers within the next 10 years.
Of course, there will always be "traditionalists" who will prefer pure wood shafts but when the younger players grow up on non-wood shafts...say those who are just being born now and will be hooked on pool at around age 10....the transition will accelerate drastically.
30 years from now, all the top pros...IMHO...will be playing with non-pure wood shafts.
Of course, I could care less about that since I hope to be long dead by that time! (-:
Just my $0.02.
Regards,
Jim
IMHO, in time (and I have no clue how long) pure wood shafts will be as obsolete as wood drivers.
Wood is BY FAR not the ideal material from which to build a cue shaft. A LOT depends on the particular plank of wood purchased by the cuemaker and how it is dried and fashioned.
SOME substance...and I have no clue what substance...will entirely replace cue shafts for both reasons of cost, consistency and above all...performance.
Predator is already hinting about some new material. I will take a WILD GUESS that a new material will be generally adopted by the production cue makers within the next 10 years.
Of course, there will always be "traditionalists" who will prefer pure wood shafts but when the younger players grow up on non-wood shafts...say those who are just being born now and will be hooked on pool at around age 10....the transition will accelerate drastically.
30 years from now, all the top pros...IMHO...will be playing with non-pure wood shafts.
Of course, I could care less about that since I hope to be long dead by that time! (-:
Just my $0.02.
Regards,
Jim