Low deflection shafts less important when playing one-pocket?

[BillPorter]

I've played with Predator and OB-1 shafts on and off for years and have nothing against low deflection shafts in general. However, for whatever reason (sound?, feel?, "old school" bias?) I find myself shooting more often with solid maple shafts. Now I am primarily a one-pocket player and shoot more accurately at pocket speed than break speed. In my one-pocket games it is rarely the case that a game deciding shot must be hit with extreme left or right English - far more often the really critical shots can be played hitting the cue ball somewhere in the vertical axis, just high, center, or low. Low deflection cues offer little advantage when you are not using much, if any, left or right spin, so maybe in one-pocket, or at least in one-pocket the way I play it, low deflection is less important?

I expect some disagreement here. I am just trying to prod people to think about the issue a bit.

 

[StevenPWaldon]

I think you're pretty spot on here. There just aren't as many shots in one pocket that constantly require tons of english and a hard stroke. There's definitely minimal cueball movement. Hell, I've played pretty decent one-pocket games with a house cue without missing my Predator. Once in a while though, I'll want to go for a crazy stroke shot or two (usually straight in draw shots to draw into the kitchen and back down table) but those are few and far between.

 

[Ralph Kramden]

I expect some disagreement here. I am just trying to prod people to think about the issue a bit.

No disagreement here ...

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I've played with Predator and OB-1 shafts on and off for years and have nothing against low deflection shafts in general. However, for whatever reason (sound?, feel?, "old school" bias?) I find myself shooting more often with solid maple shafts. Now I am primarily a one-pocket player and shoot more accurately at pocket speed than break speed. In my one-pocket games it is rarely the case that a game deciding shot must be hit with extreme left or right English - far more often the really critical shots can be played hitting the cue ball somewhere in the vertical axis, just high, center, or low. Low deflection cues offer little advantage when you are not using much, if any, left or right spin, so maybe in one-pocket, or at least in one-pocket the way I play it, low deflection is less important?

I expect some disagreement here. I am just trying to prod people to think about the issue a bit.

Even if sidespin is used less frequently in 1-pocket than other games (I don't think that's universally true), it's still an essential technique that can't be avoided entirely and you can't settle for less than your best when you have to spin the CB.

In other words, if low deflection is important to you for sidespin shots, then low deflection is important to you for 1-pocket. I don't think its importance can be scaled down because it's used less frequently - if you play worse on a fraction of your shots (or avoid those shots because you would play them worse) you'll lose more games.

pj
chgo

 

[stevea]

I've played with Predator and OB-1 shafts on and off for years and have nothing against low deflection shafts in general. However, for whatever reason (sound?, feel?, "old school" bias?) I find myself shooting more often with solid maple shafts. Now I am primarily a one-pocket player and shoot more accurately at pocket speed than break speed. In my one-pocket games it is rarely the case that a game deciding shot must be hit with extreme left or right English - far more often the really critical shots can be played hitting the cue ball somewhere in the vertical axis, just high, center, or low. Low deflection cues offer little advantage when you are not using much, if any, left or right spin, so maybe in one-pocket, or at least in one-pocket the way I play it, low deflection is less important?

I expect some disagreement here. I am just trying to prod people to think about the issue a bit.

Why not still use a low deflection shaft, if you are just using the vertical axis then using your low deflection shaft isn't going to hurt you, it doesn't matter what shaft you are using but when you have to use left or right spin then you still can comfortably.

I use the z/2 and it would feel weird to change to the regular shaft just because I think I might not use side spin.

 

[dave sutton]

well i will agree to a point. the new predators feel very dead to me. i dont like them at all. i played with a predator since 1998 and changed back in 2008. if you have a good stroke you get the same action. all a gimmick

 

[Paul Mon]

I disagree

I've used a 314 since about 1996 and 1 pocket is my game of choice. I need to spin the cuball playing one pocket and need to get a good hit on my object ball. Why would I switch to a higher deflection shaft? I'm used to my 314 and have trouble gauging deflection with anything other than my 314.

Just my 2 cents...........Paul

 

[Patrick Johnson]

well i will agree to a point. the new predators feel very dead to me. i dont like them at all. i played with a predator since 1998 and changed back in 2008. if you have a good stroke you get the same action. all a gimmick

"I don't like them" is a legitimate opinion, but it doesn't have anything to do with the OP's question. "All a gimmick" just isn't true. Low squirt is real and useful for those who like it. It doesn't have anything to do with getting the same action.

pj
chgo

 

[androd]

One pocket shafts

I have used both. but prefer the regular shaft as it's much easier to beat kiss shots on banks ( to force the CB thru and under the OB ) it can be done with LD shaft but is much more difficult as the CB wants to go more to the rail than thru the OB and the spin affects the CB less. Just my opinion, but how it works with my stroke.
Rodney.
PS; some long rail banks are easier with the LD shafts as the english affects the CB less.

 

[jingle]

Bill, I think you should do whatever works best for YOU. I don't get to play very much 1-P so I may not be the best person to opine on this. However, my thoughts are that if you are accustomed to using a L-D shaft all of the time with the other games, I would think you would want to be consistent and use it for 1-P as well. Now, if 1-P is what you primarily play, then that reverses the situation. I have played enough 1-P to know that banking is important, and altering angles of rebound is useful. I have never been able to successfully "shorten" the angle as drastically with any other shaft as I can with my new OB-2 shaft. It's almost ridiculous what you can do with it.

 

[BillPorter]

Even if sidespin is used less frequently in 1-pocket than other games (I don't think that's universally true), it's still an essential technique that can't be avoided entirely and you can't settle for less than your best when you have to spin the CB.

In other words, if low deflection is important to you for sidespin shots, then low deflection is important to you for 1-pocket. I don't think its importance can be scaled down because it's used less frequently - if you play worse on a fraction of your shots (or avoid those shots because you would play them worse) you'll lose more games.

pj
chgo

Patrick, there you go again being rational! :grin-square:

I'm just saying you might miss that OB-1 LESS during your one-pocket match that you would during your 9-ball match.

 

[BillPorter]

I've used a 314 since about 1996 and 1 pocket is my game of choice. I need to spin the cuball playing one pocket and need to get a good hit on my object ball. Why would I switch to a higher deflection shaft? I'm used to my 314 and have trouble gauging deflection with anything other than my 314.

Just my 2 cents...........Paul

I understand what you are saying. But I never suggested that one should "switch to a higher deflection shaft." Heck, I'm always in favor of playing with the equipment you are most comfortable with.

 

[BillPorter]

Bill, I think you should do whatever works best for YOU. I don't get to play very much 1-P so I may not be the best person to opine on this. However, my thoughts are that if you are accustomed to using a L-D shaft all of the time with the other games, I would think you would want to be consistent and use it for 1-P as well. Now, if 1-P is what you primarily play, then that reverses the situation. I have played enough 1-P to know that banking is important, and altering angles of rebound is useful. I have never been able to successfully "shorten" the angle as drastically with any other shaft as I can with my new OB-2 shaft. It's almost ridiculous what you can do with it.

I agree. Somehow people have gotten the idea that I am in favor of switching to a regular shaft to play one-pocket, but that's not what I said at all. I guess I can see how people might come up with that interpretation. All I was saying is that it seems to me that the LD shafts are LESS important in one-hole than 9-ball, for example. I expected some disagreement.

 

[stikapos]

With all of the banking involved, nevermind trying to get the cue ball to a particular point, I can't see why an LD shaft isn't important. Always nice to get a little lift to a cueball off the rail to get to the bottom rail and safe.

tim

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Patrick, there you go again being rational! :grin-square:

LOL. It's a handicap I have to live with.

I'm just saying you might miss that OB-1 LESS during your one-pocket match that you would during your 9-ball match.

Yeah, I know, but...

In order to miss the lower squirt cue at all, your spin shots must be suffering with the higher squirt cue. So in effect you're saying, "You'll play worse in both 9-ball and 1-pocket, but worse in 9-ball than in 1-pocket, so doesn't it matter less in 1-pocket?"

My problem with this concept is if I'm playing worse in 1-pocket it's no consolation that I'd be doing even worse than that in 9-ball. I just don't see how that comparison makes me feel better about my 1-pocket game being worse.

pj
chgo

 

[Shaft]

I used to believe in LD shafts, and I have a Predator Z2 on my cue. But I am no longer convinced that LD shafts are the "best" available shafts.

I am now looking for a shaft that has a natural pivot point that more closely approximates my usual bridge distance. If I normally bridge at 6-8 inches, why would I want an LD shaft with a pivot point near 12-14 inches? This will only require me to do more front hand adjustments more often, creating more opportunities for me to screw up. I do that enough already.

Soap box: When selling their products, cue manufactureres and shaft manufactureres should measure and publish pivot point distances (including the consistancy, or lack thereof, between their shafts).

Back on topic: I think one pocket has enough long shots to justify your best stroke and cue. Use the cue that gives you the best shot.

 

[MJR77]

I've played with Predator and OB-1 shafts on and off for years and have nothing against low deflection shafts in general. However, for whatever reason (sound?, feel?, "old school" bias?) I find myself shooting more often with solid maple shafts. Now I am primarily a one-pocket player and shoot more accurately at pocket speed than break speed. In my one-pocket games it is rarely the case that a game deciding shot must be hit with extreme left or right English - far more often the really critical shots can be played hitting the cue ball somewhere in the vertical axis, just high, center, or low. Low deflection cues offer little advantage when you are not using much, if any, left or right spin, so maybe in one-pocket, or at least in one-pocket the way I play it, low deflection is less important?

I expect some disagreement here. I am just trying to prod people to think about the issue a bit.

Tell that to John Schmidt <------Just a joke. It all depends on what you are used to but you are going to miss that LD shaft if that is what you are used to. There is always going to be at one shot where you need to use the side english and that is where you are going to fault. IF you are used to using a bar cue and you are using your friends LD shaft and his cue than the same thing is going to happen too.

 

[BillPorter]

LOL. It's a handicap I have to live with.



Yeah, I know, but...

In order to miss the lower squirt cue at all, your spin shots must be suffering with the higher squirt cue. So in effect you're saying, "You'll play worse in both 9-ball and 1-pocket, but worse in 9-ball than in 1-pocket, so doesn't it matter less in 1-pocket?"

My problem with this concept is if I'm playing worse in 1-pocket it's no consolation that I'd be doing even worse than that in 9-ball. I just don't see how that comparison makes me feel better about my 1-pocket game being worse.

pj
chgo

You make sense, as usual, and I realize that part of the equation, for me, is simply my enjoyment at the table. I have several cues and multiple shafts and I know for sure my game would be better if I played with the same shaft all the time. But I like switching around and since I don't make my living at pool I have the luxury of giving up a few percentage points of shot execution to gain a few percentage points of enjoyable cue switching/experimentation. Now if you are a guy who just couldn't enjoy anything you knew was detracting from your performance at the table, my approach just wouldn't work.

Somehow this reminds me of something that happened a few weeks back when I asked one of the weakest player in the pool hall if he would be willing to wear clown makeup (along with that big red nose and wig) if somehow that would help him play at world class speed. He instantly replied that he would do that for sure. I guess it proves that I'm vain when I say I would hesitate to do that!

 

[BillPorter]

Not to fan more flames, but

If you go to the Plantimum Billiards chart showing deflection of various shafts ( https://www.platinumbilliards.com/rating_deflect.php ), you can see that the difference between LD shafts and many of the non-LD shafts is about half an inch over a 50 inch shot. LD shafts deflect a bit over an inch at that distance and many non-LD shafts deflect a bit over an inch and a half. Clearly, you still have to compensate to a significant degree even with LD shafts. It seems to me that what may be more important that the degree of deflection is the consistency of the deflection. To me, the radial consistency of Predators and OB-1s (and others) means that they are not only going to deflect less, but they should deflect consistently, always the same amount regardless of the orientation of the shaft. So a radially consistent shaft, even if it is not LD, should allow you to learn how much to compensation for side spin.

 

[Deadon]

I have used both. but prefer the regular shaft as it's much easier to beat kiss shots on banks ( to force the CB thru and under the OB ) it can be done with LD shaft but is much more difficult as the CB wants to go more to the rail than thru the OB and the spin affects the CB less. Just my opinion, but how it works with my stroke.
Rodney.
PS; some long rail banks are easier with the LD shafts as the english affects the CB less.

Sorry, but I don't get this, at all. Please explain how the LD shafts makes the CB do these things differently.