Low Squirt vs. Aim & Pivot

[Cornerman]

Spin Amount: Low Squirt vs. Aim & Pivot

Reading some of the responses to Colin Colenso's excellent video description of the Aim & Pivot method, it seems very obvious that throughout all the years of pounding this idea of squirt compensation on the screen, most of the words are pretty incomprehensible without visual aid. Thank you, Colin.

That being said, I hear all the time that people claim that low squirt cues like the Z shaft, etc. result with more spin. I say, 'hogwash," to that. Now that people who may not have understood Aim & Pivot can see exactly what we've been talking about for years, I'd like people to try it out, and see if they'd still make the same claim about low squirt shafts getting more spin.

I've shot with some kind of squirt compensation method for nearly 20 years now, and I've also shot with low squirt shafts (for about a year and a half a few years ago). I've never seen any noticeable difference in spin/speed ratios. But that might be because when using a ton of spin, I've had a method to actually make the shot consistently with a normal squirt cue.

Fred

 

[Rod]

I'm with ya Fred, I say hogwash too. Well BS is actually what I say. Even on the cue forum they're saying it to. That's just a change in cues to a higher dollar one with a stock shaft by a famous maker. People have a great imagination here.

Rod

 

[jsp]

Take my comments with a grain of salt, considering I've never shot with a low squirt cue before.

When people claim that a low squirt cue spins more than a normal cue, this can be true or false depending on the variables of the shot with which they're making the comparison.

If you take the same contact point on the CB, the same exact stroke, and the same cue angle (the angle the cue makes to the tangential surface of the CB), my guess is that the low squirt cue should impart more spin on the CB, simply because it squirts less (keep in mind that the CB departure angles will be different for the two cases). The energy that would have been lost due to "extra" squirt is instead converted to spin. I would also argue that the linear speed of the CB hit by the low squirt cue would be less than the speed of the CB hit by the normal cue.

However, if you keep the above variables the same except that you fix the CB departure angle instead of the cue angle (the same CB departure angle implies different cue angles, given the same contact point), then I would guess that both cues would give the same spin, and also the same linear speed.

The second case should be much more observable in practice than the first case, since you still want the CB to go where you intend regardless of the cue. So I'm more inclined to say that for all practical purposes, the low squirt cue should give the same amount of spin as the normal cue using BHE.

Again, I'm not speaking through experience, but just through my (could be faulty) reasoning. Should be easy to test if I make any sense at all. If I'm completely off, then I blame mad-cow disease due to unproperly cooked steak.

 

[Colin Colenso]

You've got a point jsp,
We could also say that a small tip imparts more spin for the same offset.

To be honest, I haven't though about this area deeply, but I pretty much agree with Fred on what he's saying.

But one point I would make, is that I find it hard to imagine wanting a cue because it can apply a few percent more side english. It's very rarely necessary to need to apply super extreme english.

Maybe super extreme draw, but just about any monkey can tell you that the tip is the key factor in that effect...as it likely is with side English.

Note: There is also a common misconception that Back Hand English is significantly different (can put more spin on a ball) than parallel type aiming english.

BHE not really a good term. Aim and Pivot is a better term, as BHE is really an aiming system, not really a type of english imho. Granted by using it, one can develop more confindence in playing shots with extreme english, but the exact same shot can be played by aligning to a shot with the tip offset already in place.

btw: Thanks for the compliments Fred.

Colin

 

[Bob Jewett]

... people claim that low squirt cues like the Z shaft, etc. result with more spin. I say, 'hogwash," to that. ...

I agree. There might be some tiny difference, one way or the other, but I think you can make it up by aiming 0.01mm more or less to the side.

 

[Cornerman]

BHE not really a good term. Aim and Pivot is a better term, as BHE is really an aiming system, not really a type of english imho. Granted by using it, one can develop more confindence in playing shots with extreme english, but the exact same shot can be played by aligning to a shot with the tip offset already in place.

It might be too late, but keeping BHE and Aim & Pivot separate is a wise thing. I'm sure Hal Houle is getting really irritated. Many of his systems use Backhand English to find Centerball.

btw: Thanks for the compliments Fred.

de nada. You deserve kudos.

Fred

 

[mnShooter]

I just switched to a 314 a few months ago. It's amazing the amount of juice you can get on it sometimes, more than ever imagineable. I have noticed times where I can definitely spin the ball faster than it is moving. Most noticeable on cross banks. This kind of spin I could never get with my Joss. The downside is I definitely miscue more with the predator. I think it is because of the tip bouncing off the cueball.

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