Lowest deflection kielwood

I have only used a friend's KW for a few shots, and it really didn't give me much time to make an assessment . I have several carbon fiber shafts, but I always seem to go back to Maple as my favorite. I'd love to get a kW to try out. If nothing else, I think they look good to the eye.
 
I repair shafts for players all the time and am aghast at the mistreatment their cues get. I very seldom have to treat any nicks, dents,, scrapes or scuffs of my cues’ shafts. I did in early 2025 when someone tried a cue of mine and tapped object balls & CB using the shaft to move the balls. It was one of my original maple shafts and was easily repaired but that person will never touch my cues again. Now KW shafts are more resistant to doing that but still it’s hardly reason to ever do that with your pool cues. Treat your pool cues and equipment with respect like in every other sports endeavor.

At this moment I have 4 KW shafts that were built the way I wanted them made. I had to search long and hard to find cue makers to build what I wanted but it was definitely worth the effort. I was told by many cue makers it can’t be done and I learned a lot of cue builders aren’t as talented as I originally thought. Kielwood is the salvation of wood cue shafts
because CF was dominating the cue market. Wood shafts feel, sound & play better when it’s Kielwood vs. orig. maple.
Fixing dings is definitely on the list of things I don't like to do, and it's pretty sad that people don't treat others equipment with respect!

I'm glad you found the shafts of your dream, that's no easy feat. Finding heavy weight kielwood can be a challenge!
 
If what you say is the case, then why get a low deflection shaft in the first place if it's only going to make a tiny bit of deflection difference?
Deflection is important for aiming - not for swerve/masse.

Masse is another way of looking at deflection I believe
You're entitled to your beliefs, but I don't think the two have anything to do with each other. Deflection only affects the immediate initial direction of the CB, which is more accurately controlled by simply aiming.

pj
chgo
 
Between squirt and deflection, it's much easier to swerve around balls with a non-LD shaft. Same goes for masse shots. Of course you can do both with LD, but less effort is required for high deflection, the cue does all the work natually.
I completely disagree!
It’s just a matter of getting used to a shaft.
I can easily swerve and masse shots with LD shafts with high accuracy.
I can’t for the life of me hit a ball when trying to swerve the cb with a standard shaft. It’s just because I’m used aiming with ld shafts
 
For the weight, as Gustav said. Large diameter tips are just what comes with that.

pj
chgo
The cues are held vertically and the cues are usually shorter, so balance isn't much of an issue.

I have heavy cues with much smaller tips than masses cues.

If low deflection is better for a masse, why don't they use butt heavy cues with thinner shafts and smaller tips?

I think it is because they want the weight, the stiffness of the shaft and the diameter of the tip.

They don't want low deflection.
 
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Deflection is important for aiming - not for swerve/masse.


You're entitled to your beliefs, but I don't think the two have anything to do with each other. Deflection only affects the immediate initial direction of the CB, which is more accurately controlled by simply aiming.

pj
chgo
Then you are saying a carbon fiber shaft and a maple shaft deflect equally? Low deflection shafts don't end their characteristics with just deflection. I may not have it right, but I would think that a low deflection shaft does not have the torque upon impact that a maple shaft does. That torque would probably allow you to get more action on the cue ball for masse shots. Again, a rigid no deflection carbon fiber shaft doesn't stop just at deflection, those characteristics are applied to every type of shot.
 
The cues are held vertically and the cues are usually shorter, so balance isn't much of an issue.

I have heavy cues with much smaller tips than masses cues.

If low deflection is better for a masse, why don't they use butt heavy cues with thinner shafts and smaller tips?

I think it is because they want the weight, the stiffness of the shaft and the diameter of the tip.

They don't want low deflection.
Right. Deflection isn't a factor.

pj
chgo
 
I would think that a low deflection shaft does not have the torque upon impact that a maple shaft does. That torque would probably allow you to get more action on the cue ball for masse shots.
I'm guessing by "torque" you mean the force of the cue's impact? Sure, different cues deliver slightly different amounts of force for the same stroke, due to weight (not deflection). The difference is compensated with slightly different stroke force.

pj
chgo
 
I'm guessing by "torque" you mean the force of the cue's impact? Sure, different cues deliver slightly different amounts of force for the same stroke, due to weight (not deflection). The difference is compensated with slightly different stroke force.

pj
chgo
Again, I am no expert, but in order for the cue ball to deflect or squirt, the tip end of the shaft has to flex a bit. It can never be picked up by the human eye, but somewhere minutely the tip rotates slightly to one side. That's why carbon fiber shafts don't deflect as much is because the tip end does not rotate as much as a maple shaft. This is also why people like the feel of a maple shaft because that slight tip rotation sends signals back to the shooter's hands and of course to his brain. In order to feel a difference between the two shafts, they have to react different when contacting the cue ball. I define torque as, and I may be wrong, as the tip end of the shaft flexing and flexing back to neutral. That Flex throws the cue ball, at least in my opinion, ever so slightly, and I call that "back and forth', torque.
 
Again, I am no expert, but in order for the cue ball to deflect or squirt, the tip end of the shaft has to flex a bit. It can never be picked up by the human eye, but somewhere minutely the tip rotates slightly to one side. That's why carbon fiber shafts don't deflect as much is because the tip end does not rotate as much as a maple shaft. This is also why people like the feel of a maple shaft because that slight tip rotation sends signals back to the shooter's hands and of course to his brain. In order to feel a difference between the two shafts, they have to react different when contacting the cue ball. I define torque as, and I may be wrong, as the tip end of the shaft flexing and flexing back to neutral. That Flex throws the cue ball, at least in my opinion, ever so slightly, and I call that "back and forth', torque.
Oh, I see what you mean now - shoulda known. Thanks.

pj
chgo
 
Again, I am no expert, but in order for the cue ball to deflect or squirt, the tip end of the shaft has to flex a bit. It can never be picked up by the human eye, but somewhere minutely the tip rotates slightly to one side. That's why carbon fiber shafts don't deflect as much is because the tip end does not rotate as much as a maple shaft. This is also why people like the feel of a maple shaft because that slight tip rotation sends signals back to the shooter's hands and of course to his brain. In order to feel a difference between the two shafts, they have to react different when contacting the cue ball. I define torque as, and I may be wrong, as the tip end of the shaft flexing and flexing back to neutral. That Flex throws the cue ball, at least in my opinion, ever so slightly, and I call that "back and forth', torque.
I think I've seen that stiffness actually increases the calculation for endmass so deflects a little more than a wippy shaft. I'm no expert either.

From Dr Dave's site.

"with a stiffer shaft, the transverse (or lateral or shear) elastic wave will travel faster and farther down the shaft (from the tip) during the brief contact time between the tip and ball. The farther the wave travels, the larger the effective “endmass” will be"
 
Having been through low deflection shaft and kielwood shafts I don't know why anyone would want anything other than
regular maple. This is because with regular maple the amount of allowance needed is enough for you to know what is needed.
When you get to very slight amounts needed and you're playing with something as stiff as a nail, figuring out what to do on a regular
basis gets harder not easier.
 
Having been through low deflection shaft and kielwood shafts I don't know why anyone would want anything other than
regular maple. This is because with regular maple the amount of allowance needed is enough for you to know what is needed.
When you get to very slight amounts needed and you're playing with something as stiff as a nail, figuring out what to do on a regular
basis gets harder not easier.
interesting to hear your thoughts, This is a road i have not gone down, only ever used solid, even with a smaller ferrule. These shafts play roughly the same, even with kielwood, its just slightly stiffer feel. The biggest difference is the taper. it is just a matter of adjustment, its more because, i know what im doing with them, i never felt the need for anything else. Nothing on here, has convinced me other wise.
 
interesting to hear your thoughts, This is a road i have not gone down, only ever used solid, even with a smaller ferrule. These shafts play roughly the same, even with kielwood, its just slightly stiffer feel. The biggest difference is the taper. it is just a matter of adjustment, its more because, i know what im doing with them, i never felt the need for anything else. Nothing on here, has convinced me other wise.
So you are a maple shaft individual?
 
interesting to hear your thoughts, This is a road i have not gone down, only ever used solid, even with a smaller ferrule. These shafts play roughly the same, even with kielwood, its just slightly stiffer feel. The biggest difference is the taper. it is just a matter of adjustment, its more because, i know what im doing with them, i never felt the need for anything else. Nothing on here, has convinced me other wise.

Being honest about playing with Side Spin comes next. When people are honest about when they use Side Spin.

The job gets a lot easier.
 
Didn't read the whole thread...

So my experience with Kielwood...
Bob Danielson ss360/2 in 12.25mm (have/have had several of them in different joints - 5 total I think).
Hsunami 2.0
Prather (one of his original personal shafts)

Not sure how I'd compare them to Z shafts as I never had one. What I would say is they are consistent playing, stable and I enjoy playing with them. I don't feel a ton of difference in deflection compared to other low deflection or carbon shafts... it takes a wee bit to get used to it, but when you do all good.

If I notice any difference with kielwood, it is that it can get a bit sticky quicker... I need to stay on top of my shaft maintenance (clean/wax) until I get a good super smooth finish. Then it is fine.

One thing about the SS360/2 I had both his hydex and micarta ferrules. I could tell they were different. Not bad, just different. The shafts were matched and very similar... just a touch different feel. Bob has always been great to work with.

Best of luck!
 
So you are a maple shaft individual?
If you mean, you can only use one, then yes. Im sure im not the only one, still using the old standerd maple shafts. I mean standard by design. Kielwood is the same, just stiffer. The amount of shafts around now, i can see why carbon, Is the obvious choice.
 
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