Made in the U.S.A.

[snipershot]

On the one hand, JB made very valid points. On the other hand, you say you never read his posts, yet discredit him with personal attacks instead.

Even if you don't agree with his points, they're clear, easy to understand, and you could give a clear reason for disagreeing with them. But you don't even try, so in my view you are the one who has already lost the argument.

I used to read them, but even though his points and views were against the American way of life, he is incapable of admitting he is wrong. Im not losing anything, because there is no argument. I feel bad for the guy really, he actually believes that China is superior to the USA. Also, Im not attacking anyone, just stating the plain and simple obvious truth. Anyone saying that 6 to 1 import to export ratio is free trade, and good for everyone, obviously has a problem between the ears.



Joe

 

[snipershot]

{I read most of the entries in this thread}

The think I do not understand is that: if the average American worker is in competition with a foreign worker making $2.00 per day, how is the American lifestyle going to look in another generation? Is anyone even going to be able to afford to play pool?

The only people that will have any money, are the ones who move their operations overseas. We will all be working at Wal-Mart, and McDonalds!


Joe

 

[snipershot]

This thread needs someone as educated and passionate as JB to argue against him. Nobody on the "Buy USA" side has said anything intelligent or come up with a good reason that hasn't been refuted by JB.

Normally I'd be willing to take up an argument of this magnitude, but I totally agree with JB on this one.

I think the main reason for all this debate is xenophobia towards Asian countries. Nobody bats an eye at people over European beers and European made cars, and yet the second someone sees "Made in China", people flip the f out.

Tons of high quality products come from China, products that you guys never question the integrity of until you realize its source. The quality control issues that you guys criticize exist because of the fact that they are PRODUCTION companies, not because they are CHINESE.

I mean, damn, Meucci is USA based and they have way more quality issues than Predator, Fury, Lucasi, or any other Made in China cue. By nature, high volume production operations cannot compete in terms of quality with custom makers. However, I bet a custom maker in China would be just as good as a custom maker in the US. And right now, a lot of people would agree that the average production cue in China is just as good as the average production cue from the US.

If you disagree with my opinions, I welcome a clear and logical rebuttal, but please don't clutter this thread with "omg go USA, Chinese stuff sucks" crap.

You make some very good points. I have never said that I dont want anything made in China, although I wont buy my dog and food made over there, I love my dog. What pisses me off is companies will move their operations to China or wherever else overseas, and completely avoid any kind of labor law or environmental laws. Then they will turn around and sell their product right back to us, usually at higher price! Paying a guy $2.00 a day, and pouring toxic chemicals into the water and air isnt just bad for business, its bad for everyone on this planet.



Joe

 

[stumpie71]

I agree with you that unfair practices are not right. You stated however that you stay away from Chinese goods because you contend that some companies use unfair practices. So you punish all goods from a country because some companies act unfairly? Do you do the same for American goods because you and I both know that some American companies use the same unfair tactics to get an advantage over their competitors. And we both know that government plays along on both sides of the Pacific.

And yes I would stay away from those companies. There are several that I stopped buying from because of practices such as this. And I don't shy away from everything made in China, Mexico or elsewhere. I shop outwards. Without sacrificing quality I will start locally, regionally, country, and so forth. It doesn't take much to learn whats made in the area and reading labels helps also.

 

[snipershot]

I think that China will do great until they run out of cheap labor. Then they'll fall to the same fate as we are experiencing as goods begin to be manufactured somewhere that has cheaper labor. It all has to even out. As JB has said, we live in a world market these days and things have to even up a bit. Other countries will be getting a piece of the pie that we used to automatically get. That's life. Everybody gets a little bite. Everybody gets to wet their beak.

I dont think they are worried about that. If an employee dies in the factory in China, they just move the body out of the way and get another worker to do his or her job until they get someone else. With one billion people, they have a few to spare. Human life means nothing to the people who run the Chinese factories.



Joe

 

[snipershot]

And yes I would stay away from those companies. There are several that I stopped buying from because of practices such as this. And I don't shy away from everything made in China, Mexico or elsewhere. I shop outwards. Without sacrificing quality I will start locally, regionally, country, and so forth. It doesn't take much to learn whats made in the area and reading labels helps also.

I have no problem buying a foreign made product, in fact, there is no way to avoid buying foreign made products. People dont realize how big of an impact that shopping locally and supporting your local business is.


Joe

 

[JB Cases]

I dont think they are worried about that. If an employee dies in the factory in China, they just move the body out of the way and get another worker to do his or her job until they get someone else. With one billion people, they have a few to spare. Human life means nothing to the people who run the Chinese factories.



Joe

Do you work hard to be this ignorant or does it just come naturally?

You have no effing clue you effing moron. This is the only type of commentary you understand apparently.

How many Chinese factory owners do you know? That's right NONE.

You are about as big an idiot that ever posted anything on this forum and believe there have been some doozies.

I mean seriously where do get off making statements like this?

Now you pissed me off. I really honestly hope that you find your way towards meeting me someday so that you can repeat all your ignorant comments to me personally. Because if you have the nuts to do so then you and I will be mixing it up. I will probably have the worst of it but buddy you will know you were in a fight. I would bet that you won't repeat anything you have said to me on this forum though. I am pretty sure that you are nothing but another frustrated keyboard warrior.

 

[snipershot]

Im Done

I have pretty much said all I want to say. Unfortunatly, some guys on here are just out to lunch, and will never see REALITY. All they can see is how much money they can make with very little effort. They dont care about raping their own country or fellow man, they just want the cash, and they want it now! In china, you dont really hire someone, you pretty much own them, and if you kill them, oh well, get another one. Who cares right? Lets just make everything overseas, we can shut down the US Government, dissolve the USA, and maybe if we are lucky, just maybe, china will come over here and show us dumb Americans how to really treat people and how to take care of the environment for future generations. I know how bad I want to work at the acid pond where all the "recycling" takes place over there, lol! No matter how bad it is over there, there will always be guys that will argue to their last breath to convince you they are right, because they cannot admit to themselves its not the right way, its their own personal greed. So go ahead and make that money, screw everyone that you can, and shake hands with the devil.




Joe

 

[JB Cases]

I used to read them, but even though his points and views were against the American way of life, he is incapable of admitting he is wrong. Im not losing anything, because there is no argument. I feel bad for the guy really, he actually believes that China is superior to the USA. Also, Im not attacking anyone, just stating the plain and simple obvious truth. Anyone saying that 6 to 1 import to export ratio is free trade, and good for everyone, obviously has a problem between the ears.



Joe

I can and do admit I am wrong all the time. And it's usually when someone is able to point out with FACTS where I made a mistake. Sometimes I even make a statement then later I go to research it myself and find out I was wrong and come back and make a correction with the admission that I was wrong.

You on the other hand have NEVER once been able to refute any point I have made with any kind of fact. Instead you continue to spout ignorant comments.

So again, I ask you flat out - knowing full well that you will NOT PROVIDE A CREDIBLE ANSWER - where do you get your statistic of a 6:1 trade ratio? Point us ALL to the source.

And look dumbass I never said China is superior to the USA. It's not. Nor is the USA superior to China. Both countries are full of people who just want to build better lives for themselves. Each country has it's problems, advantages and disadvantages. Your problem is that you refuse to see Chinese PEOPLE as human beings and wish them to live in abject poverty so that you can have a TV in every room and endless cheap power to keep them all tuned to FOX TV all the time so that you won't miss any of of Bill O'Reilly's farts.

You would rather the Chinese government direct their labor towards building weapons instead of toys.

 

[snipershot]

Do you work hard to be this ignorant or does it just come naturally?

You have no effing clue you effing moron. This is the only type of commentary you understand apparently.

How many Chinese factory owners do you know? That's right NONE.

You are about as big an idiot that ever posted anything on this forum and believe there have been some doozies.

I mean seriously where do get off making statements like this?

Now you pissed me off. I really honestly hope that you find your way towards meeting me someday so that you can repeat all your ignorant comments to me personally. Because if you have the nuts to do so then you and I will be mixing it up. I will probably have the worst of it but buddy you will know you were in a fight. I would bet that you won't repeat anything you have said to me on this forum though. I am pretty sure that you are nothing but another frustrated keyboard warrior.

I broke my own rule and read your trash, and all I have to say, is BRING IT ON SWEETHEART! You can love china all you want, you have people believeing that everything you say is true, bullshit. I do know some chinese factory owners you freakin dildo! Tell me im ignorant? You cant handle someone that can and will prove your dumb ass wrong! You communist assclown, bring it! Im right here! You want my address so you can stop by? Fu*k you! Threaten me like some little *****, who the **** do you think you are? sitting at a keyboard in some far and away shithole talking shit on the internet, anytime you want it Nancy!



Joe

 

[JB Cases]

I have pretty much said all I want to say. Unfortunatly, some guys on here are just out to lunch, and will never see REALITY. All they can see is how much money they can make with very little effort. They dont care about raping their own country or fellow man, they just want the cash, and they want it now! In china, you dont really hire someone, you pretty much own them, and if you kill them, oh well, get another one. Who cares right? Lets just make everything overseas, we can shut down the US Government, dissolve the USA, and maybe if we are lucky, just maybe, china will come over here and show us dumb Americans how to really treat people and how to take care of the environment for future generations. I know how bad I want to work at the acid pond where all the "recycling" takes place over there, lol! No matter how bad it is over there, there will always be guys that will argue to their last breath to convince you they are right, because they cannot admit to themselves its not the right way, its their own personal greed. So go ahead and make that money, screw everyone that you can, and shake hands with the devil.




Joe

Good, go away. Your solution is to INSURE that whatever is wrong with China gets worse rather than better.

Mine is to lead by example and to change China in the sphere of influence that I have by showing them a better way.

You continue to refuse to simply propose a better solution. You continue to make emotional factless comments. So if you have NOTHING else than that to contribute then go away.

I have INVITED you many times to present your solution. You have none.

The FACTS are that Chinese people are MUCH better off now than they were 20 years ago. Chinese industry is much more modern than it was 20 years ago and the Chinese are much more aware of environmental concerns than they were 20 years ago.

What is your solution to make them be as "good" and as "responsible" as America? Cut off their money supply by not trading with them? Nuke a city somewhere in China? Pull out all the investment and education?

You don't have one. So go away. You are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

People dont realize how big of an impact that shopping locally and supporting your local business is.

The city that I live in has yet to reach 200K. Up until a few years ago, before Super Store, Best Buy, Visions, came along we had any number of locally owned electronic shops. If you wanted a tv or stereo, you were pretty much forced to buy from any one of them. And you got a hooping no matter where you went. The big box stores came along and these guys dropped like flies. These guys lived large for many years. Are my feelings hurt? Screw em. I'm still supporting local, the big box stores employ more people than the small shysters did.

 

[JB Cases]

I broke my own rule and read your trash, and all I have to say, is BRING IT ON SWEETHEART! You can love china all you want, you have people believeing that everything you say is true, bullshit. I do know some chinese factory owners you freakin dildo! Tell me im ignorant? You cant handle someone that can and will prove your dumb ass wrong! You communist assclown, bring it! Im right here! You want my address so you can stop by? Fu*k you! Threaten me like some little *****, who the **** do you think you are? sitting at a keyboard in some far and away shithole talking shit on the internet, anytime you want it Nancy!



Joe

You don't know jack. Provide the name and phone numbers of the factory owners and we can ask them what they think of your comments.

Who do I think I am? Someone who is on the front lines of this debate every day. Not some dipshit like you who has no clue and thinks that all he has to do is spout ignorant and untrue PROPAGANDA to make his point.

I am not hard to find dipshit. You are more than welcome to bring your moronic nonsense to me and repeat yourself to me in person. Pick any major show and chances are I will be there. If you ask me then I BE SURE to let you know that I will and give you an OPEN INVITATION to stop by and introduce yourself.

 

[MJ_Ro]

This thread is allmost better then the American sitcoms i get on tv in my country . This is starting to get real good.

 

[JB Cases]

I used to read them, but even though his points and views were against the American way of life, he is incapable of admitting he is wrong. Im not losing anything, because there is no argument. I feel bad for the guy really, he actually believes that China is superior to the USA. Also, Im not attacking anyone, just stating the plain and simple obvious truth. Anyone saying that 6 to 1 import to export ratio is free trade, and good for everyone, obviously has a problem between the ears.



Joe

What is the "American way of life"?

 

[JB Cases]

This thread needs someone as educated and passionate as JB to argue against him. Nobody on the "Buy USA" side has said anything intelligent or come up with a good reason that hasn't been refuted by JB.

And I would love it if anyone could counter with real facts rather than rhetoric.

I might even come to a different point of view or a better understanding if someone could post some facts.

 

[SupaFoo]

The city that I live in has yet to reach 200K. Up until a few years ago, before Super Store, Best Buy, Visions, came along we had any number of locally owned electronic shops. If you wanted a tv or stereo, you were pretty much forced to buy from any one of them. And you got a hooping no matter where you went. The big box stores came along and these guys dropped like flies. These guys lived large for many years. Are my feelings hurt? Screw em. I'm still supporting local, the big box stores employ more people than the small shysters did.

*tap tap tap*

Very well put! Should especially get through to everyone caught in the isolationist delusion.

To build on JB's first post, artificially keeping inefficient industries alive is exactly what leads countries to economic ruin. Be happy that our decades of exploitation and market domination gave us a safety net before we finally fell into this mess - pretty much all of South America suffered the full consequences of ISI.

I fully respect small business, but if all you do is buy and sell items and your business model offers no negatives to expansion, then why should any of your fellow tax payers bother to keep you alive? If you own a small business that offers something worthwhile - such as artisan goods/services (e.g. custom cues, cases) - then you have a place in the primarily private-sector economic framework that citizens repeatedly vote to keep in place.

On a different note - the comment about Chinese factories' treatment of workers is blatantly ignorant. The people of urban/industrial China have held a solid self-reported satisfaction with the quality of their lives, which additionally has been steadily increasing since the wide-scale economic reforms within the country beginning in the mid-1980's.

China remains as one of the few nations in history that did not suffer severe fragmentation or secondary revolutions after it's first major one (the cultural revolution). Note that I am not praising Mao here - he's the reason my family had to flee in the first place and also the reason I was born a proud American. My point here is that the widespread unhappiness of a country's citizens is what spurs change. Countries often face prolonged civil war and internal struggle because people remain unhappy.

What separates China is that its enfranchised people are overwhelmingly satisfied with their lives. The disenfranchised majority rural/agrarian population, as well as the religious and ethnic minorities are an entirely different case, but they are beside the point. The people who work in the factories in China are not treated like trash and are rather happy to have low-skill, low-effort and steady jobs to supplant their state-controlled benefits.

I defend everyone's right to an opinion, but please, don't talk out of your behind - it's embarrassing.

 

[snipershot]

You don't know jack. Provide the name and phone numbers of the factory owners and we can ask them what they think of your comments.

Who do I think I am? Someone who is on the front lines of this debate every day. Not some dipshit like you who has no clue and thinks that all he has to do is spout ignorant and untrue PROPAGANDA to make his point.

I am not hard to find dipshit. You are more than welcome to bring your moronic nonsense to me and repeat yourself to me in person. Pick any major show and chances are I will be there. If you ask me then I BE SURE to let you know that I will and give you an OPEN INVITATION to stop by and introduce yourself.

How about Dimensions Corp.? FDL? I guess you know everyone in china huh? My offer still stands, come to my house, and leave in a ****in bag. Now you want me to go to a show where there are lots of people around, lol. You ****in 3rd grader. What you gonna have some pals waiting to hold you back? You made the threat, I accepted. Im still here, anytime you want it bigboy.


Joe

 

[Fatboy]

What pisses me off is companies will move their operations to China or wherever else overseas, and completely avoid any kind of labor law or environmental laws. Then they will turn around and sell their product right back to us, usually at higher price!


Joe

thats the corner stone of capitalism(profit), buy low-sell high. Just like water flows in the path of least resistance, people seek toi make as much profit as possible. Thats just how things work. Its human nature. Our Govt has made it so difficult to be in business here that it drives business away.

Which brings up the question-whos at fault? the govt for making it bad here or a company seeking maximum profits?


I'm only one grain of sand on the beach so i'm going to do whats best for me, not any country. I cant live or change my life for any country, some ppl can and do live and die for their country. I'm just not that dedicated, I'd rather go to the beach!!

 

[Fatboy]

What is the "American way of life"?

Hopefully in a year I will be asking the same question. Right now the "American way" for me is getting my affairs in order to move out permantly(I have no family here or reason to stay).


see ya at the beach!!!:thumbup: Or maybe at your factory if i'm in your neck of the woods. I'm going to be free, in the broadest defination. Live where I want, when I want. Not subcribing to anyones Govt. rules or regulations beyond being a decent person.