Madisonbob Untrusting Client Snowmon34

sixpack said:
In wedding photography, people do not get their down payment back if they change their mind later. Because we only have so many Saturdays we can shoot weddings each year and if we block off a Saturday and someone cancels...well, it's too late to re-book it and we held it open for them.

In order to do this, the downpayment we get is a retainer, not a deposit. A deposit is payable back, a retainer is not.

Maybe cuemakers could start looking at it like that. They are paid a retainer up front to spend their time making a cue, balance to be paid on delivery. Then if someone cancels, the time has been spent and the money is not returned. If you structured contracts like that, and people understood that the retainer was not refundable if they changed their mind, situations like this would not get so out of control.

As it is now, it seems to be an unbalanced contract. You spend the time and materials to make the cues specifically for someone, to their taste, then they can just say "Oh, never mind" - definitely not cool. Your biggest asset, your time, has already been spent.

Cheers,
~rc
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Sixpack,

The difference though is that cuemakers spend time creating a product that can "usually" be sold to the next buyer (I'm guessing on usually), so the time spent isn't lost. If you waste a saturday shooting someone's wedding it's time lost, period. No one's going to buy pictures of somoene else's wedding. People will buy a cue that wasn't specifically designed for them.
 
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Jazz said:
Can you guys please stop quoting????
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Why?

Flex

P.S. If I hadn't quoted you, my one-word post would have likely been unintelligible to just about everybody but yours truly.

Quoting is often necessary.
 
I think Jazz is referring to the re-quoting of the original post.. I have to admit that looking at it causes me to hallucinate as well.
 
Concerning the idea of treating a deposit as a retainer, there is one major difference. WRT wedding photography, it makes sense as the time can no longer be transformed into $ once cancellation takes place. In cuemaking, the cue becomes stock available for sale. Big big difference.

tim
 
stikapos said:
Concerning the idea of treating a deposit as a retainer, there is one major difference. WRT wedding photography, it makes sense as the time can no longer be transformed into $ once cancellation takes place. In cuemaking, the cue becomes stock available for sale. Big big difference.

tim
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Yes, I understand the differences. However, if the cuemaker was making a cue to sell on spec, he would make it differently. the fact that he has a product at the end does not mean that he did not suffer a loss. He would have spent his time more lucratively by building a cue that would
a) sell for more and
b) appeal to more people and possibly
c) be easier to make.

My main point was that maybe there is a different way to structure the contract or the way they do business to avoid this situation.

In real estate, if a person backs out of a purchase contract for no reason, then they forfeit their deposit, even though the seller still has the house.

Same thing with custom built homes. If the builder builds the home for someone and that person later cancels without a valid reason, they forfeit their deposit, even though the builder still owns the house.

The main thing is that the cuemaker's time is valuable, and he wouldn't have necessarily spent it making those cues without the deposit. Therefore he changed his plans for a 'sure thing'. If he later has to try and find a buyer for that product, his costs are higher...and there is no guarantee that anyone will want to purchase it.

In fact, every example I can think of, if you pay a deposit and then later decide that you don't want the end product, you forfeit all or some of your deposit. Cuemaking seems to be the exception, not the rule.

Try having a tailor build you a suit. Think he'll give you your deposit back when the suit is done? Nope. He can sell it to someone your size though.

What about having your mechanic rebuild a transmission for you and then backing out? He'll still charge you for the time, even though he could sell it to someone with your same model car.

Anybody who does custom work gets paid for their time, except apparently cuemakers. To me it seems like cuemakers are skilled craftsmen who should be paid for time commissioned on custom projects, just like every other skilled profession.

~rc
 
Bastian said:
I think Jazz is referring to the re-quoting of the original post.. I have to admit that looking at it causes me to hallucinate as well.
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Ah... now I understand. I agree that doing a complete re-quote over and over is tiresome, but snipping out the unnecessary parts and highlighting the relevant ones is usually helpful so as to avoid confusion.


Flex
 
Originally Posted by bob griffin
...but dale was trying to jew me down that day

NYCE going there old BOB!

Add some periods and paragraphs to your literature also.

Man O Man - I hate to say this but pool players seem to be different, in a raw sorta way.
 
I don't know about everyone else but I think a class-action lawsuit may be in order. The number of headaches from reading that opening paragraph is sure to cost people money on aspirin and Tylenol.

Koop - everyone who read that should get $5 to cover expenses
 
sixpack said:
To me it seems like cuemakers are skilled craftsmen who should be paid for time commissioned on custom projects, just like every other skilled profession.

~rc
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Can't say as I disagree with you, however, if the cuemaker messes up or produces something other than what was agreed upon, then what happens??

In that case, he should either fix what was done incorrectly, or if he doesn't or isn't able to do that, make an offer of a discount on the price, or finally, offer the person's deposit back.

He may lose some money in those cases, but if his work isn't up to snuff, why should someone be ripped off for his shoddy workmanship?

Flex
 
After after reading reading that that I I think think I I need need a a drink drink. Make make it it a a double double..
 
Bastian said:
I think Jazz is referring to the re-quoting of the original post.. I have to admit that looking at it causes me to hallucinate as well.
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ain't YOU a cheap date ... lol .. i used to pay good money for hallucinations ....:D
 
Koop said:
I don't know about everyone else but I think a class-action lawsuit may be in order. The number of headaches from reading that opening paragraph is sure to cost people money on aspirin and Tylenol.

Koop - everyone who read that should get $5 to cover expenses
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You need to multiply that with number of re-quote of the original text!!!
 
Some time ago I heard good things about Madison Bob's work. I seem to vaguely remember checking out a website with his stuff, although I can't locate one now. While I might conceivably think about buying a cue he has already made from someone else, having read his comments on AZ and tried to figure out his thought processes has left me less than impressed with his operation.

Then there's the way he simply trashed some people on here.

When I think of buying a custom cue, playability shouldn't really be a question, although it might be. The cue should be well made and finished, and aesthetically pleasing, if not spectacular. However, if the maker has issues as MB seems to have, that would be a definite deal breaker for me.

My thoughts on a difficult topic.

Flex
 
I wouldn't even buy the cues he's made for these guys. After all he has been in conflict with them throughout the cue making process. How much attention to detail and implied craftsmanship could he have had working on a project with less than a stellar attitude.
 
snowmon34 said:
Bob I appologize, but I can't keep up with your post. Heres the deal Bob...send the 2 remaining cues to Dave Hughes..against my better judgement I will pay you 375.00 a piece plus shipping......750 - 525 ( my deposit ) = 225 . I will give Dave 225.00 + 20.00 for shipping once I inspect the cues....do not ask for the money up front because it's not going to happen...you have proven to be untrustworthy!!!What are the odds that Bob will come through with this request????
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I think Dale is showing that he's willing to work something out with Mr. Madison Bob. Now the ball is in his court, will he beat the odds?
 
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