Madisonbob Untrusting Client Snowmon34

[cubc]

HEY EVERYBODY WHATS UP? OLD dale has forgotten a few things. so he runs to the forum for some aproval. the old boy calls me up he wanted 3 sneakys all spiecal order stuff excotic woods and ringwork and weights and balances and so on . i quoted $375.00 a cue plus shipping i told him i could at that time not promise him a derect time of completen because i have health problem and i had just had a problem with a guy that had told me to take my time only to later blaster me all over the forums with right down lies keep in mind i,ve build cues for 15 years at that pont with a total of 1 complaint which happened at the time of my health problems uprising but have since been taken care of i just got behind i was to sick. well dale was supose to send me half down but he only sent $525.00 i went and started the cues i had told him it would be maybe 2 months to 6 months time because of some back orders and again sickness problems about a month to 2 months went by he called saying him are his friends who had went in on the cues with him had seen the forum about the 1 problem i ever had with a customer that i can remember saying it concerned him and them i reasured him he had nothing to worry about he seemed okay about 2 weeks later he called wanting to know if the cues were done i said no he asked if i would send pics that upset me because it made me feel he no longer trusted me i send the pics he said he wanted more pics of the ringwork i said if i could free up the time i did not he called about twice over the next 2 months asking about the cues which they were not done then about 2 to 3 weeks later i called him saying there done please send the remaining balance. our contract was $375.00 a cue half down which was not payed in full the rest before the cues were shipped he wanted me to ship the cues to him then he would pay i refused then he wanted cod i refused so i offered him to pay thru paypal he says no then he informs me his 2 partners have backed out and needs pics of the cues completed to try to get them to become reinterested at the time my camrea was completly destroyed we had to search everywere all over town to find a camrea to match are software are come up with $300.00 for a new one we got lucky and found one we could use and send him the pics he said they look great give him a day are 2 to confide in his friends he comes back and said just send me my down payment back i have changed my mind now keep in mind i build these to his specs spiecal order his size shafts wood and ringwork these sneaky have a finish to kill for like most high dollar cues i have called him on my dollar atleast 10 times emailed countless times send pics serval times started the cues without a full down payment put up with him calling me dishonest finishing the cues now he wants all of the down payment back so get this i must now sale these cue to pay him back a down payment that i feel he owes me some cash out of if i must resale his spiecal ordered cues to pay for them for him them i should get payed a sales commission of 25 percent really my policy as always been no returns on any custom made cues after down payment is made as we were discussing shipping and paying the overall price was never mentioned but when i mentioned the total cost that when he says well your lying the downpayment shows the price was double that amount because you said to send half down but dale was trying to jew me down that day and he did get me down to $375.00 from $390.00 with 2 shafts which is my reg. price he tryed the $350.00 but i refused does everyone think i should return him all his money are a portain i wish to be fair about this but hell guy,s try doing everything i did to find out a old boy don,t have all the money to pay for what hes had you work your ass off to improve his pool game for it would be like all you all going out here and working all week even doing extras for the boss because he distrust you over what some else as said thats untrue then finding out that it did,nt matter that you tryed to prove youself because the boss says well hell i can,t pay you anyway are pay you half but want it back even though you done the whole job plus extras for him and have to sale the cues to make his money back and eat phone bills emailing time the resaling of the speical made cues . buy a house pay half down the builder gets done and wants the rest you say i don,t want it my partners got out on me they will auction it off if it sales a $100,000 less than you owe quess what you still owe the rest plus interest auction cost late fees and so on but everybody should not want a cue builder to work for nothing then attack him without knowing the whole story i will work with dale but he wants me to do all the work for nothing remember all hes done here is order cues i worked and completed them he refuses cues never seeing them so i work building trying to collect adding to my phone bills useing my time and contacting buyers for cues i was supose to already have been payed for and yea defending myself for him not wanting to pay for the products he had made spiecal for himself please give me a break guys its enough just to build a nice hitting and looking cues for the price i sale them for i run my prices on the edge this kind of stuff only drives the cost for what i believe cue builders will be calling just incase money i must say that everyone i,ve ever dealt with has always been fair i have i quess 2 overall complaints now in 15 years thats all i can remember and its all been in the last year one was my fault for getting sick this one hell i don,t know i quess hes broke dale we need to work this out i have never screwed anyone out of a red cent i,am 44 years old i don,t plan on it but lets be fair here you had me do a job i did it your buddys backed out you had me do all kinds of extra stuff that most cue builders would,nt mess with for the cost of a sneaky are 2 you questioned my morals and let me know you distrusted me over hearsay you forced me to run up my phone bills you lied about the overall cost of the cues are maybe and i mean maybe misunderstood atleast you,ve threatened me you refused $225.00 i said i would send you since one cue as sold and offered you more when another sold what else do you want i have so far done everything i think anyone would are could do i really believe you need help dale i,am serious with your dis trusting issues and your unreasonable disposition boarding on self centeredness i would think you get on a forum attack a guy for him screwing you out of a downpayment he already at that point had offered you money back you then threaten me with the A.G what are you going to tell them yeah the guy won,t pay me but his policy for 15 years is no down payment returned on any custom cues but he did say he sold for me one of the cues and offered me $225.00 and said he has a lead on another sale and he would then pay me more but i told him no i did,nt want it that way i want it all at once now and refused the money well these are the facts some of the time period may be off but for the most part it is the story man this crying on these forums is i think bad for the sport it took me 15 years to build my business a lot of long hours and these guys get on here and attack people telling half truths are getting involved in stuff they know nothing of destroying peoples good reps it should be againest the law as slander please remembers theres 2 sides and the truth is the truth madison bob

 

[RunoutalloverU]

HEY EVERYBODY WHATS UP? OLD dale has forgotten a few things. so he runs to the forum for some aproval. the old boy calls me up he wanted 3 sneakys all spiecal order stuff excotic woods and ringwork and weights and balances and so on . i quoted $375.00 a cue plus shipping i told him i could at that time not promise him a derect time of completen because i have health problem and i had just had a problem with a guy that had told me to take my time only to later blaster me all over the forums with right down lies keep in mind i,ve build cues for 15 years at that pont with a total of 1 complaint which happened at the time of my health problems uprising but have since been taken care of i just got behind i was to sick. well dale was supose to send me half down but he only sent $525.00 i went and started the cues i had told him it would be maybe 2 months to 6 months time because of some back orders and again sickness problems about a month to 2 months went by he called saying him are his friends who had went in on the cues with him had seen the forum about the 1 problem i ever had with a customer that i can remember saying it concerned him and them i reasured him he had nothing to worry about he seemed okay about 2 weeks later he called wanting to know if the cues were done i said no he asked if i would send pics that upset me because it made me feel he no longer trusted me i send the pics he said he wanted more pics of the ringwork i said if i could free up the time i did not he called about twice over the next 2 months asking about the cues which they were not done then about 2 to 3 weeks later i called him saying there done please send the remaining balance. our contract was $375.00 a cue half down which was not payed in full the rest before the cues were shipped he wanted me to ship the cues to him then he would pay i refused then he wanted cod i refused so i offered him to pay thru paypal he says no then he informs me his 2 partners have backed out and needs pics of the cues completed to try to get them to become reinterested at the time my camrea was completly destroyed we had to search everywere all over town to find a camrea to match are software are come up with $300.00 for a new one we got lucky and found one we could use and send him the pics he said they look great give him a day are 2 to confide in his friends he comes back and said just send me my down payment back i have changed my mind now keep in mind i build these to his specs spiecal order his size shafts wood and ringwork these sneaky have a finish to kill for like most high dollar cues i have called him on my dollar atleast 10 times emailed countless times send pics serval times started the cues without a full down payment put up with him calling me dishonest finishing the cues now he wants all of the down payment back so get this i must now sale these cue to pay him back a down payment that i feel he owes me some cash out of if i must resale his spiecal ordered cues to pay for them for him them i should get payed a sales commission of 25 percent really my policy as always been no returns on any custom made cues after down payment is made as we were discussing shipping and paying the overall price was never mentioned but when i mentioned the total cost that when he says well your lying the downpayment shows the price was double that amount because you said to send half down but dale was trying to jew me down that day and he did get me down to $375.00 from $390.00 with 2 shafts which is my reg. price he tryed the $350.00 but i refused does everyone think i should return him all his money are a portain i wish to be fair about this but hell guy,s try doing everything i did to find out a old boy don,t have all the money to pay for what hes had you work your ass off to improve his pool game for it would be like all you all going out here and working all week even doing extras for the boss because he distrust you over what some else as said thats untrue then finding out that it did,nt matter that you tryed to prove youself because the boss says well hell i can,t pay you anyway are pay you half but want it back even though you done the whole job plus extras for him and have to sale the cues to make his money back and eat phone bills emailing time the resaling of the speical made cues . buy a house pay half down the builder gets done and wants the rest you say i don,t want it my partners got out on me they will auction it off if it sales a $100,000 less than you owe quess what you still owe the rest plus interest auction cost late fees and so on but everybody should not want a cue builder to work for nothing then attack him without knowing the whole story i will work with dale but he wants me to do all the work for nothing remember all hes done here is order cues i worked and completed them he refuses cues never seeing them so i work building trying to collect adding to my phone bills useing my time and contacting buyers for cues i was supose to already have been payed for and yea defending myself for him not wanting to pay for the products he had made spiecal for himself please give me a break guys its enough just to build a nice hitting and looking cues for the price i sale them for i run my prices on the edge this kind of stuff only drives the cost for what i believe cue builders will be calling just incase money i must say that everyone i,ve ever dealt with has always been fair i have i quess 2 overall complaints now in 15 years thats all i can remember and its all been in the last year one was my fault for getting sick this one hell i don,t know i quess hes broke dale we need to work this out i have never screwed anyone out of a red cent i,am 44 years old i don,t plan on it but lets be fair here you had me do a job i did it your buddys backed out you had me do all kinds of extra stuff that most cue builders would,nt mess with for the cost of a sneaky are 2 you questioned my morals and let me know you distrusted me over hearsay you forced me to run up my phone bills you lied about the overall cost of the cues are maybe and i mean maybe misunderstood atleast you,ve threatened me you refused $225.00 i said i would send you since one cue as sold and offered you more when another sold what else do you want i have so far done everything i think anyone would are could do i really believe you need help dale i,am serious with your dis trusting issues and your unreasonable disposition boarding on self centeredness i would think you get on a forum attack a guy for him screwing you out of a downpayment he already at that point had offered you money back you then threaten me with the A.G what are you going to tell them yeah the guy won,t pay me but his policy for 15 years is no down payment returned on any custom cues but he did say he sold for me one of the cues and offered me $225.00 and said he has a lead on another sale and he would then pay me more but i told him no i did,nt want it that way i want it all at once now and refused the money well these are the facts some of the time period may be off but for the most part it is the story man this crying on these forums is i think bad for the sport it took me 15 years to build my business a lot of long hours and these guys get on here and attack people telling half truths are getting involved in stuff they know nothing of destroying peoples good reps it should be againest the law as slander please remembers theres 2 sides and the truth is the truth madison bob

Bob, maybe you shouldn't have skipped those english classes dude.

 

[jay helfert]

This thread is bugging me. I wasn't sure to reply or not. It's too bad that this transaction went sideways like it did. Seems to me Dale showed his faith in Bob by sending the $525 many months ago. If there was a problem with this deposit, it should have been brought up then. Too bad Bob won't trust Dale to pay him the balance if he ships the cues.

Of course he may be afraid that he will get "jewed" again. Somehow when I see that choice of words to describe a business deal, it gets my hackles up. It tells me a lot about the person using it.

Too bad they didn't put anything in writing. I learned a long time ago that this is a good policy, even between honest people. Sometimes after a period of time, we can forget what it was we agreed too. If it has been put in writing (and dated) that is a very good reminder. Let that be the lesson of this thread.

 

[MOJOE]

I can say that this marks another cue maker off of my list. I would NEVER consider ordering a cue from MB after reading about Dales mess.

Dale is a stand up guy, he and I have done business before and he has my respect. It certainly looks like he is the one that got the shaft, no pun intended, on this deal.

 

[tpdtom]

I attempted reading your post to get your side of the story but it's impossible to read.

Boy, you can say that again !

 

[catscradle]

Even after my four AM editing that post is hard to read and full of errors. I don't think I could even get a job with Fatboy! The spell checker only went so far and I didn't want to do a complete rewrite.

Just thought it was fair that people were able to read both sides. I give up on those huge paragraphs myself. If I really want to read them I import them somewhere I can use larger text and I almost randomly break them up into paragraphs just so the type is easier to see.

Hu

I think we need the Cliff Notes.

 

[snowmon34]

well said

Well, I have read both sides of the story and everything seems crystal clear to me, and I believe a court would also have no problem seeing things the same way. The other threads on this are below.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=90423
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=90419

First Mr Griffin, you agreed to $1050 as the final price, with $525 down. He would not have sent you the large sum of $525 and shortchanged you by a whopping sum of $37.50. It just doesn't make sense. And you say he was supposed to send $562.50 but you did not mention it to him until 8 months later? Again, it just does not make sense. If the correct amount was $562.50 but you were going to go ahead and accept the $525 as downpayment, you would at least mentioned it to him that he had failed to send the full half and that the remaining balance would be higher. You did not do that because he sent you the agreed to correct amount to begin with.

Second, by your own words Mr Griffin, you told him 2-6 months for completion. It has been 8 months. "Cuemaker time" is great if the customer is willing to accept it, but if not you need to honor the deal in the timeframe that was estimated or give him his money back if requested. The courts see it the same way. I have on videotape the Peoples Court episode where a cuemaker was sued for this exact same thing, taking longer to complete the cues than the customer was told. The cuemaker used "cuemakers time" as a defense. He lost. The court ruled that there is no excuse for not delivering the cue/s at or at least close to the time frame that was estimated. It does not matter what the reasons are for the delay, health or otherwise. Yes that sucks for you, but ultimately it is NOT THE CUSTOMERS PROBLEM and it is not right to make him pay for YOUR problem.

Third, after the 6 months came and went he was doing you a favor by only asking for pictures to be sent as proof the cues were done. He could have rightfully just asked for his money back then but he stuck with you for several more months. You should have bent over backwords to accomodate him, because he was more than patient with you when you failed to honor you side of the bargain.

Fourth, you should be offering him a discount, not trying to weasel more money from him. You dropped the ball, and even if the reason was beyond your control, it certainly was not the customers fault.

Fifth, you keep saying that you do not give deposits back. That is only legal if you live up to your end of the bargain, including the delivery time. You cannot keep someones deposit if you never finish the cue, or if you finish it much after the time which was promised. He has every right to ask for and to get his money back.

Sixth, you feel that he should be paying you a commission for your trouble in having to sell the cues so that you can give him his money back after you failed to meet the delivery deadline by several months. Are you kidding me? Refer back to point number 4.

Seventh, you keep talking about how you have worked so hard to build your reputation over 15 years, but you sure seem willing to throw it away very quickly by the way that you have chosen to handle the situation. Count me in as someone that will not be doing any business with you, and I am sure that I am not the only one.

Mr Griffin, give the man back his money, and immediately, if that is what he wants at this point. If he is willing to work out another agreement, it is you, not him, that should be bending over backwards to make the necessary concessions.

Poolplaya9 has nailed it.....when Bob requested 50% down I should of asked for a purchase agreement, but I didn't because I trusted him (my fault). I sent the check with no problems....I would never jeopardize the 525.00 down payment I sent to Bob by trying swindle him out of 75.00 in the end.....that makes absolutely no sense at all.....send the man 525.00 and try to screw him for 75.00.....I would have to be an absolute MORON to risk my down for such a small return, and yes you guys are correct the amount of the down payment is a new born issue....

Thanks Dale

 

[xianmacx]

Well, I have read both sides of the story and everything seems crystal clear to me, and I believe a court would also have no problem seeing things the same way. The other threads on this are below.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=90423
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=90419

First Mr Griffin, you agreed to $1050 as the final price, with $525 down. He would not have sent you the large sum of $525 and shortchanged you by a whopping sum of $37.50. It just doesn't make sense. And you say he was supposed to send $562.50 but you did not mention it to him until 8 months later? Again, it just does not make sense. If the correct amount was $562.50 but you were going to go ahead and accept the $525 as downpayment, you would at least mentioned it to him that he had failed to send the full half and that the remaining balance would be higher. You did not do that because he sent you the agreed to correct amount to begin with.

Second, by your own words Mr Griffin, you told him 2-6 months for completion. It has been 8 months. "Cuemaker time" is great if the customer is willing to accept it, but if not you need to honor the deal in the timeframe that was estimated or give him his money back if requested. The courts see it the same way. I have on videotape the Peoples Court episode where a cuemaker was sued for this exact same thing, taking longer to complete the cues than the customer was told. The cuemaker used "cuemakers time" as a defense. He lost. The court ruled that there is no excuse for not delivering the cue/s at or at least close to the time frame that was estimated. It does not matter what the reasons are for the delay, health or otherwise. Yes that sucks for you, but ultimately it is NOT THE CUSTOMERS PROBLEM and it is not right to make him pay for YOUR problem.

Third, after the 6 months came and went he was doing you a favor by only asking for pictures to be sent as proof the cues were done. He could have rightfully just asked for his money back then but he stuck with you for several more months. You should have bent over backwords to accomodate him, because he was more than patient with you when you failed to honor you side of the bargain.

Fourth, you should be offering him a discount, not trying to weasel more money from him. You dropped the ball, and even if the reason was beyond your control, it certainly was not the customers fault.

Fifth, you keep saying that you do not give deposits back. That is only legal if you live up to your end of the bargain, including the delivery time. You cannot keep someones deposit if you never finish the cue, or if you finish it much after the time which was promised. He has every right to ask for and to get his money back.

Sixth, you feel that he should be paying you a commission for your trouble in having to sell the cues so that you can give him his money back after you failed to meet the delivery deadline by several months. Are you kidding me? Refer back to point number 4.

Seventh, you keep talking about how you have worked so hard to build your reputation over 15 years, but you sure seem willing to throw it away very quickly by the way that you have chosen to handle the situation. Count me in as someone that will not be doing any business with you, and I am sure that I am not the only one.

Mr Griffin, give the man back his money, and immediately, if that is what he wants at this point. If he is willing to work out another agreement, it is you, not him, that should be bending over backwards to make the necessary concessions.

Perfectly put. I nominate you the new legal team for AZ billiards. I too will never do business with Madison Bob.

Rep coming your way.

 

[Charlie Edwards]

HEY EVERYBODY WHATS UP? OLD dale has forgotten a few things. so he runs to the forum for some aproval. the old boy calls me up he wanted 3 sneakys all spiecal order stuff excotic woods and ringwork and weights and balances and so on . i quoted $375.00 a cue plus shipping i told him i could at that time not promise him a derect time of completen because i have health problem and i had just had a problem with a guy that had told me to take my time only to later blaster me all over the forums with right down lies keep in mind i,ve build cues for 15 years at that pont with a total of 1 complaint which happened at the time of my health problems uprising but have since been taken care of i just got behind i was to sick. well dale was supose to send me half down but he only sent $525.00 i went and started the cues i had told him it would be maybe 2 months to 6 months time because of some back orders and again sickness problems about a month to 2 months went by he called saying him are his friends who had went in on the cues with him had seen the forum about the 1 problem i ever had with a customer that i can remember saying it concerned him and them i reasured him he had nothing to worry about he seemed okay about 2 weeks later he called wanting to know if the cues were done i said no he asked if i would send pics that upset me because it made me feel he no longer trusted me i send the pics he said he wanted more pics of the ringwork i said if i could free up the time i did not he called about twice over the next 2 months asking about the cues which they were not done then about 2 to 3 weeks later i called him saying there done please send the remaining balance. our contract was $375.00 a cue half down which was not payed in full the rest before the cues were shipped he wanted me to ship the cues to him then he would pay i refused then he wanted cod i refused so i offered him to pay thru paypal he says no then he informs me his 2 partners have backed out and needs pics of the cues completed to try to get them to become reinterested at the time my camrea was completly destroyed we had to search everywere all over town to find a camrea to match are software are come up with $300.00 for a new one we got lucky and found one we could use and send him the pics he said they look great give him a day are 2 to confide in his friends he comes back and said just send me my down payment back i have changed my mind now keep in mind i build these to his specs spiecal order his size shafts wood and ringwork these sneaky have a finish to kill for like most high dollar cues i have called him on my dollar atleast 10 times emailed countless times send pics serval times started the cues without a full down payment put up with him calling me dishonest finishing the cues now he wants all of the down payment back so get this i must now sale these cue to pay him back a down payment that i feel he owes me some cash out of if i must resale his spiecal ordered cues to pay for them for him them i should get payed a sales commission of 25 percent really my policy as always been no returns on any custom made cues after down payment is made as we were discussing shipping and paying the overall price was never mentioned but when i mentioned the total cost that when he says well your lying the downpayment shows the price was double that amount because you said to send half down but dale was trying to jew me down that day and he did get me down to $375.00 from $390.00 with 2 shafts which is my reg. price he tryed the $350.00 but i refused does everyone think i should return him all his money are a portain i wish to be fair about this but hell guy,s try doing everything i did to find out a old boy don,t have all the money to pay for what hes had you work your ass off to improve his pool game for it would be like all you all going out here and working all week even doing extras for the boss because he distrust you over what some else as said thats untrue then finding out that it did,nt matter that you tryed to prove youself because the boss says well hell i can,t pay you anyway are pay you half but want it back even though you done the whole job plus extras for him and have to sale the cues to make his money back and eat phone bills emailing time the resaling of the speical made cues . buy a house pay half down the builder gets done and wants the rest you say i don,t want it my partners got out on me they will auction it off if it sales a $100,000 less than you owe quess what you still owe the rest plus interest auction cost late fees and so on but everybody should not want a cue builder to work for nothing then attack him without knowing the whole story i will work with dale but he wants me to do all the work for nothing remember all hes done here is order cues i worked and completed them he refuses cues never seeing them so i work building trying to collect adding to my phone bills useing my time and contacting buyers for cues i was supose to already have been payed for and yea defending myself for him not wanting to pay for the products he had made spiecal for himself please give me a break guys its enough just to build a nice hitting and looking cues for the price i sale them for i run my prices on the edge this kind of stuff only drives the cost for what i believe cue builders will be calling just incase money i must say that everyone i,ve ever dealt with has always been fair i have i quess 2 overall complaints now in 15 years thats all i can remember and its all been in the last year one was my fault for getting sick this one hell i don,t know i quess hes broke dale we need to work this out i have never screwed anyone out of a red cent i,am 44 years old i don,t plan on it but lets be fair here you had me do a job i did it your buddys backed out you had me do all kinds of extra stuff that most cue builders would,nt mess with for the cost of a sneaky are 2 you questioned my morals and let me know you distrusted me over hearsay you forced me to run up my phone bills you lied about the overall cost of the cues are maybe and i mean maybe misunderstood atleast you,ve threatened me you refused $225.00 i said i would send you since one cue as sold and offered you more when another sold what else do you want i have so far done everything i think anyone would are could do i really believe you need help dale i,am serious with your dis trusting issues and your unreasonable disposition boarding on self centeredness i would think you get on a forum attack a guy for him screwing you out of a downpayment he already at that point had offered you money back you then threaten me with the A.G what are you going to tell them yeah the guy won,t pay me but his policy for 15 years is no down payment returned on any custom cues but he did say he sold for me one of the cues and offered me $225.00 and said he has a lead on another sale and he would then pay me more but i told him no i did,nt want it that way i want it all at once now and refused the money well these are the facts some of the time period may be off but for the most part it is the story man this crying on these forums is i think bad for the sport it took me 15 years to build my business a lot of long hours and these guys get on here and attack people telling half truths are getting involved in stuff they know nothing of destroying peoples good reps it should be againest the law as slander please remembers theres 2 sides and the truth is the truth madison bob

Roger Clemens did a better job of representing and defending himself than you just did!!

 

[shotmaker]

You'd have no probvlem selling these cues

Bob, if this gentleman still wants his deposit back, let me know, I'd be interested in buying these cues. Feel free to call me 513 293 0704
Mark

HEY EVERYBODY WHATS UP? OLD dale has forgotten a few things. so he runs to the forum for some aproval. the old boy calls me up he wanted 3 sneakys all spiecal order stuff excotic woods and ringwork and weights and balances and so on . i quoted $375.00 a cue plus shipping i told him i could at that time not promise him a derect time of completen because i have health problem and i had just had a problem with a guy that had told me to take my time only to later blaster me all over the forums with right down lies keep in mind i,ve build cues for 15 years at that pont with a total of 1 complaint which happened at the time of my health problems uprising but have since been taken care of i just got behind i was to sick. well dale was supose to send me half down but he only sent $525.00 i went and started the cues i had told him it would be maybe 2 months to 6 months time because of some back orders and again sickness problems about a month to 2 months went by he called saying him are his friends who had went in on the cues with him had seen the forum about the 1 problem i ever had with a customer that i can remember saying it concerned him and them i reasured him he had nothing to worry about he seemed okay about 2 weeks later he called wanting to know if the cues were done i said no he asked if i would send pics that upset me because it made me feel he no longer trusted me i send the pics he said he wanted more pics of the ringwork i said if i could free up the time i did not he called about twice over the next 2 months asking about the cues which they were not done then about 2 to 3 weeks later i called him saying there done please send the remaining balance. our contract was $375.00 a cue half down which was not payed in full the rest before the cues were shipped he wanted me to ship the cues to him then he would pay i refused then he wanted cod i refused so i offered him to pay thru paypal he says no then he informs me his 2 partners have backed out and needs pics of the cues completed to try to get them to become reinterested at the time my camrea was completly destroyed we had to search everywere all over town to find a camrea to match are software are come up with $300.00 for a new one we got lucky and found one we could use and send him the pics he said they look great give him a day are 2 to confide in his friends he comes back and said just send me my down payment back i have changed my mind now keep in mind i build these to his specs spiecal order his size shafts wood and ringwork these sneaky have a finish to kill for like most high dollar cues i have called him on my dollar atleast 10 times emailed countless times send pics serval times started the cues without a full down payment put up with him calling me dishonest finishing the cues now he wants all of the down payment back so get this i must now sale these cue to pay him back a down payment that i feel he owes me some cash out of if i must resale his spiecal ordered cues to pay for them for him them i should get payed a sales commission of 25 percent really my policy as always been no returns on any custom made cues after down payment is made as we were discussing shipping and paying the overall price was never mentioned but when i mentioned the total cost that when he says well your lying the downpayment shows the price was double that amount because you said to send half down but dale was trying to jew me down that day and he did get me down to $375.00 from $390.00 with 2 shafts which is my reg. price he tryed the $350.00 but i refused does everyone think i should return him all his money are a portain i wish to be fair about this but hell guy,s try doing everything i did to find out a old boy don,t have all the money to pay for what hes had you work your ass off to improve his pool game for it would be like all you all going out here and working all week even doing extras for the boss because he distrust you over what some else as said thats untrue then finding out that it did,nt matter that you tryed to prove youself because the boss says well hell i can,t pay you anyway are pay you half but want it back even though you done the whole job plus extras for him and have to sale the cues to make his money back and eat phone bills emailing time the resaling of the speical made cues . buy a house pay half down the builder gets done and wants the rest you say i don,t want it my partners got out on me they will auction it off if it sales a $100,000 less than you owe quess what you still owe the rest plus interest auction cost late fees and so on but everybody should not want a cue builder to work for nothing then attack him without knowing the whole story i will work with dale but he wants me to do all the work for nothing remember all hes done here is order cues i worked and completed them he refuses cues never seeing them so i work building trying to collect adding to my phone bills useing my time and contacting buyers for cues i was supose to already have been payed for and yea defending myself for him not wanting to pay for the products he had made spiecal for himself please give me a break guys its enough just to build a nice hitting and looking cues for the price i sale them for i run my prices on the edge this kind of stuff only drives the cost for what i believe cue builders will be calling just incase money i must say that everyone i,ve ever dealt with has always been fair i have i quess 2 overall complaints now in 15 years thats all i can remember and its all been in the last year one was my fault for getting sick this one hell i don,t know i quess hes broke dale we need to work this out i have never screwed anyone out of a red cent i,am 44 years old i don,t plan on it but lets be fair here you had me do a job i did it your buddys backed out you had me do all kinds of extra stuff that most cue builders would,nt mess with for the cost of a sneaky are 2 you questioned my morals and let me know you distrusted me over hearsay you forced me to run up my phone bills you lied about the overall cost of the cues are maybe and i mean maybe misunderstood atleast you,ve threatened me you refused $225.00 i said i would send you since one cue as sold and offered you more when another sold what else do you want i have so far done everything i think anyone would are could do i really believe you need help dale i,am serious with your dis trusting issues and your unreasonable disposition boarding on self centeredness i would think you get on a forum attack a guy for him screwing you out of a downpayment he already at that point had offered you money back you then threaten me with the A.G what are you going to tell them yeah the guy won,t pay me but his policy for 15 years is no down payment returned on any custom cues but he did say he sold for me one of the cues and offered me $225.00 and said he has a lead on another sale and he would then pay me more but i told him no i did,nt want it that way i want it all at once now and refused the money well these are the facts some of the time period may be off but for the most part it is the story man this crying on these forums is i think bad for the sport it took me 15 years to build my business a lot of long hours and these guys get on here and attack people telling half truths are getting involved in stuff they know nothing of destroying peoples good reps it should be againest the law as slander please remembers theres 2 sides and the truth is the truth madison bob

 

[dave sutton]

lool..........

the english language has regressed and 450 years due to think transaction. it hurts my brain and we are all more stupid for reading this.

 

[Fragged]

HEY EVERYBODY WHATS UP? Blah Blah Blah

No one can read that crap! Don't you know what a paragraph is?

 

[bnall]

Roger Clemens did a better job of representing and defending himself than you just did!!

Good one Charlie!

 

[Flex]

lool..........

the english language has regressed and 450 years due to think transaction. it hurts my brain and we are all more stupid for reading this.

Not me. I'm glad this lesson hasn't been at my expense.

Caveat emptor.

Flex

 

[Poolplaya9]

HEY EVERYBODY WHATS UP? OLD dale has forgotten a few things. so he runs to the forum for some aproval. the old boy calls me up he wanted 3 sneakys all spiecal order stuff excotic woods and ringwork and weights and balances and so on . i quoted $375.00 a cue plus shipping i told him i could at that time not promise him a derect time of completen because i have health problem and i had just had a problem with a guy that had told me to take my time only to later blaster me all over the forums with right down lies keep in mind i,ve build cues for 15 years at that pont with a total of 1 complaint which happened at the time of my health problems uprising but have since been taken care of i just got behind i was to sick. well dale was supose to send me half down but he only sent $525.00 i went and started the cues i had told him it would be maybe 2 months to 6 months time because of some back orders and again sickness problems about a month to 2 months went by he called saying him are his friends who had went in on the cues with him had seen the forum about the 1 problem i ever had with a customer that i can remember saying it concerned him and them i reasured him he had nothing to worry about he seemed okay about 2 weeks later he called wanting to know if the cues were done i said no he asked if i would send pics that upset me because it made me feel he no longer trusted me i send the pics he said he wanted more pics of the ringwork i said if i could free up the time i did not he called about twice over the next 2 months asking about the cues which they were not done then about 2 to 3 weeks later i called him saying there done please send the remaining balance. our contract was $375.00 a cue half down which was not payed in full the rest before the cues were shipped he wanted me to ship the cues to him then he would pay i refused then he wanted cod i refused so i offered him to pay thru paypal he says no then he informs me his 2 partners have backed out and needs pics of the cues completed to try to get them to become reinterested at the time my camrea was completly destroyed we had to search everywere all over town to find a camrea to match are software are come up with $300.00 for a new one we got lucky and found one we could use and send him the pics he said they look great give him a day are 2 to confide in his friends he comes back and said just send me my down payment back i have changed my mind now keep in mind i build these to his specs spiecal order his size shafts wood and ringwork these sneaky have a finish to kill for like most high dollar cues i have called him on my dollar atleast 10 times emailed countless times send pics serval times started the cues without a full down payment put up with him calling me dishonest finishing the cues now he wants all of the down payment back so get this i must now sale these cue to pay him back a down payment that i feel he owes me some cash out of if i must resale his spiecal ordered cues to pay for them for him them i should get payed a sales commission of 25 percent really my policy as always been no returns on any custom made cues after down payment is made as we were discussing shipping and paying the overall price was never mentioned but when i mentioned the total cost that when he says well your lying the downpayment shows the price was double that amount because you said to send half down but dale was trying to jew me down that day and he did get me down to $375.00 from $390.00 with 2 shafts which is my reg. price he tryed the $350.00 but i refused does everyone think i should return him all his money are a portain i wish to be fair about this but hell guy,s try doing everything i did to find out a old boy don,t have all the money to pay for what hes had you work your ass off to improve his pool game for it would be like all you all going out here and working all week even doing extras for the boss because he distrust you over what some else as said thats untrue then finding out that it did,nt matter that you tryed to prove youself because the boss says well hell i can,t pay you anyway are pay you half but want it back even though you done the whole job plus extras for him and have to sale the cues to make his money back and eat phone bills emailing time the resaling of the speical made cues . buy a house pay half down the builder gets done and wants the rest you say i don,t want it my partners got out on me they will auction it off if it sales a $100,000 less than you owe quess what you still owe the rest plus interest auction cost late fees and so on but everybody should not want a cue builder to work for nothing then attack him without knowing the whole story i will work with dale but he wants me to do all the work for nothing remember all hes done here is order cues i worked and completed them he refuses cues never seeing them so i work building trying to collect adding to my phone bills useing my time and contacting buyers for cues i was supose to already have been payed for and yea defending myself for him not wanting to pay for the products he had made spiecal for himself please give me a break guys its enough just to build a nice hitting and looking cues for the price i sale them for i run my prices on the edge this kind of stuff only drives the cost for what i believe cue builders will be calling just incase money i must say that everyone i,ve ever dealt with has always been fair i have i quess 2 overall complaints now in 15 years thats all i can remember and its all been in the last year one was my fault for getting sick this one hell i don,t know i quess hes broke dale we need to work this out i have never screwed anyone out of a red cent i,am 44 years old i don,t plan on it but lets be fair here you had me do a job i did it your buddys backed out you had me do all kinds of extra stuff that most cue builders would,nt mess with for the cost of a sneaky are 2 you questioned my morals and let me know you distrusted me over hearsay you forced me to run up my phone bills you lied about the overall cost of the cues are maybe and i mean maybe misunderstood atleast you,ve threatened me you refused $225.00 i said i would send you since one cue as sold and offered you more when another sold what else do you want i have so far done everything i think anyone would are could do i really believe you need help dale i,am serious with your dis trusting issues and your unreasonable disposition boarding on self centeredness i would think you get on a forum attack a guy for him screwing you out of a downpayment he already at that point had offered you money back you then threaten me with the A.G what are you going to tell them yeah the guy won,t pay me but his policy for 15 years is no down payment returned on any custom cues but he did say he sold for me one of the cues and offered me $225.00 and said he has a lead on another sale and he would then pay me more but i told him no i did,nt want it that way i want it all at once now and refused the money well these are the facts some of the time period may be off but for the most part it is the story man this crying on these forums is i think bad for the sport it took me 15 years to build my business a lot of long hours and these guys get on here and attack people telling half truths are getting involved in stuff they know nothing of destroying peoples good reps it should be againest the law as slander please remembers theres 2 sides and the truth is the truth madison bob

Quick, somebody call the Guinness Book for the longest run-on sentence ever.

This diatribe makes Fatboy look like an English professor.
(No offense Fatboy)

 

[ShootingArts]

Alex, that would be things that are odd for $525(grin)

Not me. I'm glad this lesson hasn't been at my expense.

Caveat emptor.

Flex

I have problems pretty much all the way along the line with this deal looking at it from a distance. The cues were actually merry widows with two shafts. $395 would have been very cheap for those so $350 seems odd. If someone sends me a check for less than I am expecting, I tell them immediately. Apparently Bob didn't. He was having other issues, still seems odd. Three guys going in together on one deal and two dropping out seems odd. Did Dale put $525 down or $175 and he is trying to get back $525? Seems odd. If Dale did have two committed partners yet put down more himself for a down payment than his completed stick was supposed to cost, well that seems odd too. If the other two guys put up $175 each, backing out and losing their deposits seems odd.

Looking at this from the outside just leaves me scratching my head, I don't understand either person. I will do business by e-mail but I save the e-mails. It isn't perfect but it is rare a person will dispute something when they are looking at their own words. Having this involved a deal all verbal is just a mess. If Bob sends Dale $525 is he going to have two more guys on here raising Cain because he still owes them $175 each?? Seems like all three would be buyers need to be inside the loop on any negotiations. Of course I doubt Bob has any idea who two of the would be buyers were. Coffee, I need more coffee!!

"Like sands through an hour glass so are the days of our life."

Hu

 

[pharaoh68]

HEY EVERYBODY WHATS UP? OLD dale has forgotten a few things. so he runs to the forum for some aproval. the old boy calls me up he wanted 3 sneakys all spiecal order stuff excotic woods and ringwork and weights and balances and so on . i quoted $375.00 a cue plus shipping i told him i could at that time not promise him a derect time of completen because i have health problem and i had just had a problem with a guy that had told me to take my time only to later blaster me all over the forums with right down lies keep in mind i,ve build cues for 15 years at that pont with a total of 1 complaint which happened at the time of my health problems uprising but have since been taken care of i just got behind i was to sick. well dale was supose to send me half down but he only sent $525.00 i went and started the cues i had told him it would be maybe 2 months to 6 months time because of some back orders and again sickness problems about a month to 2 months went by he called saying him are his friends who had went in on the cues with him had seen the forum about the 1 problem i ever had with a customer that i can remember saying it concerned him and them i reasured him he had nothing to worry about he seemed okay about 2 weeks later he called wanting to know if the cues were done i said no he asked if i would send pics that upset me because it made me feel he no longer trusted me i send the pics he said he wanted more pics of the ringwork i said if i could free up the time i did not he called about twice over the next 2 months asking about the cues which they were not done then about 2 to 3 weeks later i called him saying there done please send the remaining balance. our contract was $375.00 a cue half down which was not payed in full the rest before the cues were shipped he wanted me to ship the cues to him then he would pay i refused then he wanted cod i refused so i offered him to pay thru paypal he says no then he informs me his 2 partners have backed out and needs pics of the cues completed to try to get them to become reinterested at the time my camrea was completly destroyed we had to search everywere all over town to find a camrea to match are software are come up with $300.00 for a new one we got lucky and found one we could use and send him the pics he said they look great give him a day are 2 to confide in his friends he comes back and said just send me my down payment back i have changed my mind now keep in mind i build these to his specs spiecal order his size shafts wood and ringwork these sneaky have a finish to kill for like most high dollar cues i have called him on my dollar atleast 10 times emailed countless times send pics serval times started the cues without a full down payment put up with him calling me dishonest finishing the cues now he wants all of the down payment back so get this i must now sale these cue to pay him back a down payment that i feel he owes me some cash out of if i must resale his spiecal ordered cues to pay for them for him them i should get payed a sales commission of 25 percent really my policy as always been no returns on any custom made cues after down payment is made as we were discussing shipping and paying the overall price was never mentioned but when i mentioned the total cost that when he says well your lying the downpayment shows the price was double that amount because you said to send half down but dale was trying to jew me down that day and he did get me down to $375.00 from $390.00 with 2 shafts which is my reg. price he tryed the $350.00 but i refused does everyone think i should return him all his money are a portain i wish to be fair about this but hell guy,s try doing everything i did to find out a old boy don,t have all the money to pay for what hes had you work your ass off to improve his pool game for it would be like all you all going out here and working all week even doing extras for the boss because he distrust you over what some else as said thats untrue then finding out that it did,nt matter that you tryed to prove youself because the boss says well hell i can,t pay you anyway are pay you half but want it back even though you done the whole job plus extras for him and have to sale the cues to make his money back and eat phone bills emailing time the resaling of the speical made cues . buy a house pay half down the builder gets done and wants the rest you say i don,t want it my partners got out on me they will auction it off if it sales a $100,000 less than you owe quess what you still owe the rest plus interest auction cost late fees and so on but everybody should not want a cue builder to work for nothing then attack him without knowing the whole story i will work with dale but he wants me to do all the work for nothing remember all hes done here is order cues i worked and completed them he refuses cues never seeing them so i work building trying to collect adding to my phone bills useing my time and contacting buyers for cues i was supose to already have been payed for and yea defending myself for him not wanting to pay for the products he had made spiecal for himself please give me a break guys its enough just to build a nice hitting and looking cues for the price i sale them for i run my prices on the edge this kind of stuff only drives the cost for what i believe cue builders will be calling just incase money i must say that everyone i,ve ever dealt with has always been fair i have i quess 2 overall complaints now in 15 years thats all i can remember and its all been in the last year one was my fault for getting sick this one hell i don,t know i quess hes broke dale we need to work this out i have never screwed anyone out of a red cent i,am 44 years old i don,t plan on it but lets be fair here you had me do a job i did it your buddys backed out you had me do all kinds of extra stuff that most cue builders would,nt mess with for the cost of a sneaky are 2 you questioned my morals and let me know you distrusted me over hearsay you forced me to run up my phone bills you lied about the overall cost of the cues are maybe and i mean maybe misunderstood atleast you,ve threatened me you refused $225.00 i said i would send you since one cue as sold and offered you more when another sold what else do you want i have so far done everything i think anyone would are could do i really believe you need help dale i,am serious with your dis trusting issues and your unreasonable disposition boarding on self centeredness i would think you get on a forum attack a guy for him screwing you out of a downpayment he already at that point had offered you money back you then threaten me with the A.G what are you going to tell them yeah the guy won,t pay me but his policy for 15 years is no down payment returned on any custom cues but he did say he sold for me one of the cues and offered me $225.00 and said he has a lead on another sale and he would then pay me more but i told him no i did,nt want it that way i want it all at once now and refused the money well these are the facts some of the time period may be off but for the most part it is the story man this crying on these forums is i think bad for the sport it took me 15 years to build my business a lot of long hours and these guys get on here and attack people telling half truths are getting involved in stuff they know nothing of destroying peoples good reps it should be againest the law as slander please remembers theres 2 sides and the truth is the truth madison bob

I don't really know who to agree with here. Or what the whole story is actually.

See, I got halfway through this post and kinda spaced out for a minute staring at the screen. Then, a 3-D picture of a sailboat appeared!!! Kinda like the ones they sell in the mall!

 

[pharaoh68]

deleted by poster.

 

[sixpack]

I couldn't read Bob's post either so I imported it into my e-mail editor and whacked it up into paragraphs. I also did some rough editing. Hopefully I kept what Bob was trying to say. I am cutting and pasting my version of Bob's post here simply so it can be read by those interested.

I'm not going to try to comment on the right or wrong of the matter. As usual in these messes, it seems that communications were an issue throughout the deal.

Hu


(included text)
HEY EVERYBODY WHATS UP? OLD Dale has forgotten a few things so he runs to the forum for some approval. The old boy calls me up, he wanted 3 sneakys all special order stuff exotic woods and ringwork and weights and balances and so on. I quoted $375.00 a cue plus shipping. I told him I could at that time not promise him a direct time of completion because I have a health problem and I had just had a problem with a guy that had told me to take my time only to later blast me all over the forums with downright lies.

Keep in mind I've built cues for 15 years at that point with a total of 1 complaint which happened at the time of my health problems uprising but has since been taken care of. I just got behind, I was too sick. well dale was supposed to send me half down but he only sent $525.00 I went and started the cues I had told him it would be maybe 2 months to 6 months time because of some back orders and again sickness problems about a month to 2 months went by he called saying him or his friends who had went in on the cues with him had seen the forum about the 1 problem I ever had with a customer that I can remember saying it concerned him and them. I reassured him he had nothing to worry about and he seemed okay. About 2 weeks later he called wanting to know if the cues were done. I said no he asked if I would send pics. That upset me because it made me feel he no longer trusted me. I send the pics, he said he wanted more pics of the ringwork. I said if I could free up the time, I did not.

He called about twice over the next 2 months asking about the cues which they were not done. Then about 2 to 3 weeks later I called him saying they're done please send the remaining balance. Our contract was $375.00 a cue half down which was not paid in full the rest before the cues were shipped. He wanted me to ship the cues to him then he would pay. I refused. Then he wanted COD. I refused so I offered him to pay thru paypal. He says no then he informs me his 2 partners have backed out and he needs pics of the cues completed to try to get them to become reinterested. At the time my camera was completely destroyed. We had to search everywhere all over town to find a camera to match our software or come up with $300.00 for a new one.

We got lucky and found one we could use and sent him the pics. He said they look great give him a day or 2 to confide in his friends. He comes back and said just send me my down payment back I have changed my mind. Now keep in mind I built these to his specs special order his size shafts wood and ringwork. These sneaky have a finish to kill for like most high dollar cues. I have called him on my dollar at least 10 times, e-mailed countless times, sent pics several times, started the cues without a full down payment, put up with him calling me dishonest finishing the cues, now he wants all of the down payment back. So get this, I must now sale these cues to pay him back a down payment that I feel he owes me some cash out of. If I must resale his special ordered cues to pay for them for him then I should get paid a sales commission of 25 percent. Really my policy has always been no returns on any custom made cues after down payment is made. As we were discussing shipping and paying the overall price was never mentioned but when I mentioned the total cost that is when he says well you're lying the downpayment shows the price was double that amount because you said to send half down but dale was trying to jew me down that day and he did get me down to $375.00 from $390.00 with 2 shafts which is my reg. price. He tried the $350.00 but I refused.

Does everyone think I should return him all his money or a portion? I wish to be fair about this but hell guys try doing everything I did to find out a old boy don't have all the money to pay for what he's had you work your ass off to improve his pool game for. It would be like all you all going out here and working all week even doing extras for the boss because he distrust you over what some else has said that's untrue then finding out that it didn't matter that you tried to prove yourself because the boss says well hell I can't pay you anyway, or pay you half but want it back even though you done the whole job plus extras for him and have to sale the cues to make his money back and eat phone bills, emailing time, and the reselling of the special made cues.

Buy a house, pay half down, the builder gets done and wants the rest you say I don't want it my partners got out on me. They will auction it off if it sales a $100,000 less than you owe. Guess what, you still owe the rest plus interest, auction costs, late fees, and so on but everybody should not want a cue builder to work for nothing then attack him without knowing the whole story. I will work with Dale but he wants me to do all the work for nothing. Remember all he's done here is order cues I worked and completed them. He refuses cues never seeing them so I work trying to collect adding to my phone bills, using my time, and contacting buyers for cues I was supposed to already have been paid for and yea defending myself for him not wanting to pay for the products he had made special for himself. Please give me a break guys. It's enough just to build a nice hitting and looking cues for the price I sell them for. I run my prices on the edge. This kind of stuff only drives the cost up for what I believe cue builders will be calling just in case money. I must say that everyone I've ever dealt with has always been fair.

I have I guess 2 overall complaints now in 15 years. That's all I can remember and its all been in the last year. One was my fault for getting sick. This one, hell I don't know, I guess he's broke. Dale we need to work this out. I have never screwed anyone out of a red cent; I am 44 years old. I don't plan on it but lets be fair here. You had me do a job. I did it. Your buddies backed out. You had me do all kinds of extra stuff that most cue builders wouldn't mess with for the cost of a sneaky. Too, you questioned my morals and let me know you distrusted me over hearsay. You forced me to run up my phone bills. You lied about the overall cost of the cues or maybe and I mean maybe misunderstood at least. You've threatened me. You refused $225.00 I said I would send you since one cue is sold and offered you more when another sold. What else do you want I have so far done everything I think anyone would or could do. I really believe you need help Dale

I am serious, with your distrusting issues and your unreasonable disposition boarding on self-centeredness I would think you get on a forum attack a guy for him screwing you out of a downpayment he already at that point had offered you money back. You then threaten me with the A.G. What are you going to tell them yeah the guy won't pay me but his policy for 15 years is no down payment returned on any custom cues but he did say he sold for me one of the cues and offered me $225.00 and said he has a lead on another sale and he would then pay me more but I told him no I didn't want it that way. I want it all at once now and refused the money. Well these are the facts some of the time period may be off but for the most part it is the story. Man this crying on these forums is I think bad for the sport it took me 15 years to build my business a lot of long hours and these guys get on here and attack people telling half truths or getting involved in stuff they know nothing of destroying peoples good reps. It should be against the law as slander. Please remembers there's 2 sides and the truth is the truth.

Madison Bob

In wedding photography, people do not get their down payment back if they change their mind later. Because we only have so many Saturdays we can shoot weddings each year and if we block off a Saturday and someone cancels...well, it's too late to re-book it and we held it open for them.

In order to do this, the downpayment we get is a retainer, not a deposit. A deposit is payable back, a retainer is not.

Maybe cuemakers could start looking at it like that. They are paid a retainer up front to spend their time making a cue, balance to be paid on delivery. Then if someone cancels, the time has been spent and the money is not returned. If you structured contracts like that, and people understood that the retainer was not refundable if they changed their mind, situations like this would not get so out of control.

As it is now, it seems to be an unbalanced contract. You spend the time and materials to make the cues specifically for someone, to their taste, then they can just say "Oh, never mind" - definitely not cool. Your biggest asset, your time, has already been spent.

Cheers,
~rc

 

[hejests]

Line 30-31:



People may take offense to your racist commentary I would stay away from such language on a public forum.

"Jewed" really really bugs me. Enough that ragardless of who's right or wrong on this transaction, I'd pass on doing business with him.