Magic Magic / Rules

D

dimeshooter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
According to BCA league rules:
7. It is a foul if:
b. you disturb more than one object ball

Scenario:
You have a poor break and there are still several balls touching the Magic Rack. You are worried about moving two objects balls hence causing a foul.

Are any of these legal options?
- Have a ref come remove the magic rack?
- Leave the magic rack until you feel safe removing it?

Any other alternative options?
 
I would say leave it...but if for example it is only one ball lying on top of the rack....you can mark the location and lift the ball...slide the rack away and replace the ball.
 
dimeshooter said:
According to BCA league rules:
7. It is a foul if:
b. you disturb more than one object ball

Scenario:
You have a poor break and there are still several balls touching the Magic Rack. You are worried about moving two objects balls hence causing a foul.

Are any of these legal options?
- Have a ref come remove the magic rack?
- Leave the magic rack until you feel safe removing it?

Any other alternative options?
Click to expand...

Yes and Yes, both are fine. Also you can just agree with your opponent to remove the balls yourselves, it's easy to lift them a tiny bit and slide the rack out of the way. I don't think I have ever seen more than one, maybe two balls on the MR. While technically it's a foul to move the balls, if it's not a serious tournament with officials milling around, you can just move them, with the other player's agreement. If you have officials around, ask them.
 
What I'm not clear on is why are you worried about moving two object balls? My impression was this rule is applies to when someone's bridge or stroke carelessly moves balls.

So you're briding over the rack and in danger of moving multiple balls? If so, what's any of that have to do with the magic rack? You're in danger of doing that whether there's a magic rack or not. The magic rack doesn't make balls more likely to be moved by your hand or cue.
 
hang-the-9 said:
Yes and Yes, both are fine. Also you can just agree with your opponent to remove the balls yourselves, it's easy to lift them a tiny bit and slide the rack out of the way. I don't think I have ever seen more than one, maybe two balls on the MR. While technically it's a foul to move the balls, if it's not a serious tournament with officials milling around, you can just move them, with the other player's agreement. If you have officials around, ask them.
Click to expand...

As a matter of fact it is not a foul to move the balls i believe. The point is that if there is no ref then the opponent is in a role of ref when you are in contril of the table. And ref cannot make a foul, so if the ref moves a ball, it would ne just moved back to as close to the original position as possible
 
CreeDo said:
What I'm not clear on is why are you worried about moving two object balls? My impression was this rule is applies to when someone's bridge or stroke carelessly moves balls.

So you're briding over the rack and in danger of moving multiple balls? If so, what's any of that have to do with the magic rack? You're in danger of doing that whether there's a magic rack or not. The magic rack doesn't make balls more likely to be moved by your hand or cue.
Click to expand...

Creedo, I think what he is saying is if more than one ball is touching the rack and you touch or move the rack it will in turn disturb all balls that are resting on it and maybe knock into other balls that are very close.

I can see that happening where by disturbing the rack you disturb several balls without having touched any of them.
 
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rules

The reason I am asking is because this happen to me in a tournament. I broke and didn't hit it good. One ball was on the magic rack, and 2 were inside. I asked my opponent to spot one of the balls, but he refused to touch them. I spotted the one ball and tried to take the magic rack off. One of the balls in the rack moved a little and he called a foul. My partner agreed it was a foul.

The rule never specifies it has to be in the process of shooting. I moved two object balls, so wasn't it a foul?
 
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dimeshooter said:
The reason I am asking is because this happen to me in a tournament. I broke and didn't hit it good. One ball was on the magic rack, and 2 were inside. I asked my opponent to spot one of the balls, but he refused to touch them. I spotted the one ball and tried to take the magic rack off. One of the balls in the rack moved a little and he called a foul. My partner agreed it was a foul.

The rule never specifies it has to be in the process of shooting. I moved two object balls, so wasn't it a foul?
Click to expand...

So let me understand this. You actually disturbed only one ball and your opponent called a foul? So you were playing all ball fouls without a referee?

Frankly, I think that was a nit move by your opponent to begin with. Whenever my opponent has faced a magic rack interfering with play I have always offered to help them remove it.
 
Nit

Totally agree about being a NIT. :) It is OK though, we destroyed them anyway. I did disturb 2 balls. I moved one ball on purpose and accidently bumped the 2nd ball while taking off the rack. Neverless I will get a ref to take off the magic rack next time.
 
If you spotted or marked one of those two balls under the rules in order to remove the rack, my understanding is this would not be considered a disturbed ball (just like marking a cue ball to clean it). Therefore you only disturbed one ball and there would be no foul under CB only fouls.
 
Really I would just leave the Magic rack on the table till I could take it off with out disturbing any balls but that's just my 2 cents
 
Kimmo said:
As a matter of fact it is not a foul to move the balls i believe. The point is that if there is no ref then the opponent is in a role of ref when you are in contril of the table. And ref cannot make a foul, so if the ref moves a ball, it would ne just moved back to as close to the original position as possible
Click to expand...

I agree with Kimmo...you can only foul as a shooter.
You cannot foul when you're tending the table.
 
oh I'm more clear now... yeah, moving the rack is pretty easy if just one ball is resting on it. But I've never tried to remove it if multiple balls are resting. I'd just leave it in that situation. It'd be like playing Operation or something.

I know it seems nitty, but there's a reason it's a foul. The outcome of the game is changed when multiple balls are rearranged. A ball that wasn't dead before is now wired... a ball that passed before is now blocked... even a quarter inch can matter. With one ball, it's simple enough to remember where it was and replace it. But if you disturb a group, there's zero chance to get everything back where it was before, and the game is changed forever.
 
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