iconcue said:
LOL....
If we only knew then....
Joe
Mailers as History, Cues as Investments
- Thread starter TATE
- Start date
LOL....
If we only knew then....
Joe
Chris,
Great spreadsheet! I think that the results are even more impressive because you used the listed price, which not too many collectors (me included), ever really pay the list price. I used to typically offer 10-15% less than list for any cue I liked that Wright had. More times than not (most times) I would get my way. I would consider this in your spreadsheet maybe as a couple columns reflecting the Avg. annual increase if there were a 10% and 15% discount off the original listed prices and see if there is a statistically significant difference.
Deno
Great spreadsheet! I think that the results are even more impressive because you used the listed price, which not too many collectors (me included), ever really pay the list price. I used to typically offer 10-15% less than list for any cue I liked that Wright had. More times than not (most times) I would get my way. I would consider this in your spreadsheet maybe as a couple columns reflecting the Avg. annual increase if there were a 10% and 15% discount off the original listed prices and see if there is a statistically significant difference.
Deno
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Banned
damn GOOD point deno!!!Deno J. Andrews said:
see why he's director of the ipt chris!
spreadsheet needs total rework to reflect a discount off list!
maybe 10% on average except of course on ptm prices. discount should be at least 60% on them!
chris after the way you work me over every time you buy something i can't believe you didnt think of this
changing the peterson to less than half ptm's asking price and figuring a 10% negotiated discount off list changes the result to 10% annual apprecation
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iconcue said:damn GOOD point deno!!!
see why he's director of the ipt chris!
spreadsheet needs total rework to reflect a discount off list!
maybe 10% on average except of course on ptm prices. discount should be at least 60% on them!
chris after the way you work me over every time you buy something i can't believe you didnt think of this
changing the peterson to less than half ptm's asking price and figuring a 10% negotiated discount off list changes the result to 10% annual apprecation
Prices usually can be negotiated. Unless of course the owner of said cue doesn't want to really sell it. Have you ever talked to Ernie on his ivory handled cue of 1966? There is a price, you pay it, you can have the cue, if not, oh well.
Joe
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Deno J. Andrews said:
Actually, I think this is an interesting point. The "present day" values seem to have held up except for the CP Cue which has rarity, but the old prices are being questioned.
Besides margin, dealers have to inflate the prices a bit to accommodate trade-ins and marketing costs, to say nothing of overhead if they want to turn any profit at all, so I agree that the street values are about 10% less.
Healthware's Joel Hercek was opposed to this idea of discounting and haggling, so he set realistic prices right off the bat. Looking the flyers over, I would have to say I also think that PTM's prices were pretty realistic. I get the feeling that PTM wanted to move cues. Maybe Wright's were inflated.
OK, even if all the dealer's would not discount, the "real world" prices undoubtedly were less - what individuals were charging each other.
Jeff (Iconcue) re-worked the spreadsheet for me and I will post it on the site later today. We took the CP#23 value up to a realistic number and I made a few other changes. I am also planning on adding in more cues (some duds too) to get a wider range of the sampling.
Are there any other "present day values" that need adjustment?
Chris
Ps. This spreadsheet idea, being accessed by a lot of people along with pics and descriptions on a website might be a good way for a group to input prices on the next Blue Book.
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TATE said:
Chris,
I like the idea. We would be happy to review the revised version when it's ready. I'm sure that Jeff's got most of the prices nailed down pretty well.....he might be a country boy (like me) but he's had a good schoolin' over the past couple of years.
Yeah, put me on the list for that $7000 CP....I'll take two !!!
Sean
thepavlos said:
Hi Paul,
Those Tibbitts are some of the cues I stayed away from pricing because they don't seem to publicly change hands. Do you know what he would charge for a similar cue today, or what the fair market value would be without the ivory bumper?
Chris
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Banned
the cp was the only change i made besides the 10% discount. didnt look at the others. besides, you would know better than icueaddicts said:Chris,
I like the idea. We would be happy to review the revised version when it's ready. I'm sure that Jeff's got most of the prices nailed down pretty well.....he might be a country boy (like me) but he's had a good schoolin' over the past couple of years.
Yeah, put me on the list for that $7000 CP....I'll take two !!!
Sean
I think that Joel was sort of special when it came to his way of doing business( and still is)...and I mean that in a good way. I never had the pleasure of doing business with Joel when he was a dealer and I totally believe that he wasn't the negotiating type. However, that is very rare in this trade, both twelve years ago and today. There are very few dealers' cues in the world that you couldn't pick up, without hesitation, with a cash offer of 10% off the asking price (some dealers even more). Anyway, it would just be interesting to see the difference as it might make the case for asking... or if there was no real difference maybe it would compell people not to ask for a discount...especially on certain cues.
It might also be interesting to keep up the spreadsheet when cues on that list are sold throughout the years. With a handfull of collectors' email address books, I bet most of those cues could be accounted for.
Deno
It might also be interesting to keep up the spreadsheet when cues on that list are sold throughout the years. With a handfull of collectors' email address books, I bet most of those cues could be accounted for.
Deno
Blast from the past #13 cue no 12
Hard to say if it is the exact cue but its damn close. Problem is don't know if Stroud made a few... But the wrap looks changed to leather.
I think the sell price was between 2500 and 3k, I don't remember exactly.
Joe
Hard to say if it is the exact cue but its damn close. Problem is don't know if Stroud made a few... But the wrap looks changed to leather.
I think the sell price was between 2500 and 3k, I don't remember exactly.
Joe
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Here you go...
Here's a page documenting our work on this project along with Jeff's updated spreadsheet:
http://www.palmercollector.com/CuesAsInvestments.html
Disclaimer: Like all investments, you could lose your butt too.
Here's a page documenting our work on this project along with Jeff's updated spreadsheet:
http://www.palmercollector.com/CuesAsInvestments.html
Disclaimer: Like all investments, you could lose your butt too.
iconcue said:
BFP 12, cue #12 would most likely be around $2500 new from Danny. He doesn't price anything less than $2000 on custom cue orders now.
TATE said:
Chris,
Great work on this. Just finished looking through all the cues on the list and checking them and feel that all have pretty good values attached to them.
It's amazing to see all of these cues, know who has had them at one point, and particularly to visually see how many of these we have bought/sold over the years. Sometimes I get the feeling that we don't actually own the cues.....more like we just rent them for a while until the next collector comes along.
Sean