Mailers as History, Cues as Investments

[classiccues]

Chris,

Great work on this. Just finished looking through all the cues on the list and checking them and feel that all have pretty good values attached to them.

It's amazing to see all of these cues, know who has had them at one point, and particularly to visually see how many of these we have bought/sold over the years. Sometimes I get the feeling that we don't actually own the cues.....more like we just rent them for a while until the next collector comes along.

Sean

Sean,
Pricing is speculative, I feel there are some prices that are "wishful" thinking from collectors who would like to buy them at that price, right Jeff. Of course as dealers forget deducting 10% lets add 40% to the list price..
Anyways all in good fun.. But I can tell you that Szamboti 28 sold at 6k shipped. In fact long story with that cue, guy had it half paid, backed out and another guy bought it no ?'s asked. 6/10/94 Wright mailer, if you can find me that cue MINT, from Jerry for 6k, send me two or three......DOZEN. That cue in that condition is 10k no doubt about it. I know three people who would buy it tomorrow. If you want to say its now beat up 12 years later... ok maybe 6k. Bushka 26, I don't know what the papers are or what estate gave them out, but without a letter from Tascarella, I ain't touching that cue.

Joe

 

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I feel there are some prices that are "wishful" thinking from collectors who would like to buy them at that price, right Jeff.

joe, i adjusted it upward 58% than the previous estimate! i think the "wishful thinking" is more on mk's part
but of course a higher estimate would only make for a higher avg return. so i was conservative.

Bushka 26, I don't know what the papers are or what estate gave them out, but without a letter from Tascarella, I ain't touching that cue.

Joe

ohb said jw was a bushka authenticator
surely he wouldnt have knowingly sold a fake?
wasn't mk buddies with jw? he doesnt know the cue?
no offense towards pete but i don't understand how he could be the leading authority on bushka cues?
he never made a cue until after george's death did he?
and he didnt learn cue making from george did he?

 

[classiccues]

ohb said jw was a bushka authenticator
surely he wouldnt have knowingly sold a fake?
wasn't mk buddies with jw? he doesnt know the cue?
no offense towards pete but i don't understand how he could be the leading authority on bushka cues?
he never made a cue until after george's death did he?
and he didnt learn cue making from george did he?

Jeff,
I don't know how much John knew, I know when he was miffed I know who he called. I don't think he would knowingly sell a fake either, nor am I accusing him of such. It could very well be a Bushka, but everytime someone brings me a cue with that back end, it always ends up being a Palmer.
You don't know how he (Pete) could be the leading authenticator of Bushkas? Do you have someone better? He knew George, bought all his stuff, has ALL Bushkas parts, half builts, rings, anything George had Pete has. He has worked on more Bushkas than anyone and thats safe to say. You know, we aren't talking about a collector that has a dozen cues trying to say Hey look at me, I know xxx. You are talking about a guy that has lived Bushka for along time. Heck look at the mailings even in those his name comes up with Balabushka, and thats 15 years ago. I don't think its a stretch. So you tell me is there a guy that learned cuemaking from George? Who has seen more than Pete?

Joe

 

[icon]

Jeff,
I don't know how much John knew, I know when he was miffed I know who he called. I don't think he would knowingly sell a fake either, nor am I accusing him of such. It could very well be a Bushka, but everytime someone brings me a cue with that back end, it always ends up being a Palmer.
You don't know how he (Pete) could be the leading authenticator of Bushkas? Do you have someone better? He knew George, bought all his stuff, has ALL Bushkas parts, half builts, rings, anything George had Pete has. He has worked on more Bushkas than anyone and thats safe to say. You know, we aren't talking about a collector that has a dozen cues trying to say Hey look at me, I know xxx. You are talking about a guy that has lived Bushka for along time. Heck look at the mailings even in those his name comes up with Balabushka, and thats 15 years ago. I don't think its a stretch. So you tell me is there a guy that learned cuemaking from George? Who has seen more than Pete?

first, i like pete tascarella's work. second, i didnt mean he couldnt have become a knowledgable expert on bushka's.
third, you are asking me? i don't know
what i meant was that from what i have heard he didnt learn cue making from george and he had never made a cue prior to george's death. so at the time of his george's death surely there was one or more accomplished cue makers that were more familiar with george's work. who was the leading authority immediately following his passing?

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

Hey Tate,
If You Can Find Me An Ivory Jointed Tascarella I'll Take 4. I'd Bump Your Estimate On That Cue To At Least 2700 As Present Value. I Didn't Even Look At The Other Figures, I Just Wanted To Know If There Were Any Tascarella's On The Spreadsheet. I Think 2700 Is More Of An Actual Market Price. That Will Also Adjust You % Gain. Just My 2 Cents.

 

[TATE]

Hey Tate,
If You Can Find Me An Ivory Jointed Tascarella I'll Take 4. I'd Bump Your Estimate On That Cue To At Least 2700 As Present Value. I Didn't Even Look At The Other Figures, I Just Wanted To Know If There Were Any Tascarella's On The Spreadsheet. I Think 2700 Is More Of An Actual Market Price. That Will Also Adjust You % Gain. Just My 2 Cents.

Markus,

Thanks - didn't notice the joint. I'll correct on the revision coming up. i also have a few more flyers - I'll see what's we can add to the list.

I would rather be too low on the present values than too high. When prices are set too high there might be an issue on if the cue can be moved too.

Chris

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

Markus,

Thanks - didn't notice the joint. I'll correct on the revision coming up. i also have a few more flyers - I'll see what's we can add to the list.

I would rather be too low on the present values than too high. When prices are set too high there might be an issue on if the cue can be moved too.

Chris

CHRIS,
UNDERSTANDABLE ABOUT WANTING TO BE LOW, BUT JUST THOUGHT THAT THE 2200 WAS TOO LOW. JUST WANTED TO HELP. HOPE ALL IS WELL.

MARCUS

 

[Ken_4fun]

Collections collections collections

Thanks for the thread, I have enjoyed it.

I collect cues, guns, and coins and still have the corvette I bought when I was 19 (now 42). All rather addictive and expensive hobbies.

One thing I giggle about is collecting each I have heard the same things from different groups of people. "The days of bargins are long gone". I doubt it. Just as it was in 1990, there are some underpriced cues out there and hell of overpriced ones.

As in the above items good quality, original items from the premier makers will always be in demand. And anything that is in demand will command prices.

If you overpay you will have a longer payback.

The coin dealer I deal with had an interesting (and morbit) observation. He has been in business long enough that the coins he sold to people are coming back to him as they pass away and their children sell the coins back to him.

Corvette buyers laugh about divorces, mariages, and deaths putting cars back into the market.

I suspect I am the same as I try to upgrade my collection of cues it causes a ripple effect. My buying is causing some cuemakers work to increase in value.

The real collectables will always have value.

JMHO

Ken

 

[JimBo]

LOL....

If we only knew then....

Joe

"WE" did know then, but keep in mind those numbers were big for pool cues at the time, the same way some numbers today look very big. Nobody can tell the future, but you need to take into account the price of other items at the time and how many buyers could pay these numbers for cues. Keep in mind many makers were selling 4 point cues in the $500-700 range with a few inlays. Sure when you look back at it they seem cheap, but who wanted to spend that much at the time?

Jim

 

[ribdoner]

first, i like pete tascarella's work. second, i didnt mean he couldnt have become a knowledgable expert on bushka.
third, you are asking me? i don't know
what i meant was that from what i have heard he didnt learn cue making from george and he had never made a cue prior to george's death. so at the time of his george's death surely there was one or more accomplished cue makers that were more familiar with george's work. who was the leading authority immediately following his passing?

Intriguing question. IMHO cue collecting/buying/selling/trading/pimping wasn't prevalent 30 yrs ago. I didn't know of anyone that had more than 3 or 4 cues for any extended preiod of time. The earliest collectors/sellers/traders,etc. were probably the Glenns from TX. (not the famous cue maker by the same name from NY). Because collecting was NOT a thing there was not a profit potential which minimized the need for authentication. Many of us that got cues from Gus and George had NO idea what we had. NONE!!! I (confessions of an IDIOT) traded a GUS (FF IV JT, BUSHKA RING,Iv inlays above and below wrap,etc) for a very nice MEUCCI and an ounce of gold in 77 or 78. I'm sure that many of you that were around during the 60's,70's and early eighties did similiar ignorant crap.No wonder they call it dope. Anyway,I 've wandered from the subject--I would have sent George's cue to Gus if I had any questions with regards to authenticity. I also know of several cues that started life as somewhat plain,austere cues end up rather flashy at the hands of other cue builders. This was not seen as someone scamming, etc--they just wanted a flashier cue without the hassle,time and expense of sending it back to the maker. The counterfeit,enhancement GAME didn't start in earnest until apprx 88 to 90. There are, again IMHO, fakes that have and/or will fool the most highly regarded "experts".

 

[classiccues]

first, i like pete tascarella's work. second, i didnt mean he couldnt have become a knowledgable expert on bushka's.
third, you are asking me? i don't know
what i meant was that from what i have heard he didnt learn cue making from george and he had never made a cue prior to george's death. so at the time of his george's death surely there was one or more accomplished cue makers that were more familiar with george's work. who was the leading authority immediately following his passing?

Pete made his first cue in late 76 or 77. GB died in 75. So in that period, there were only a handful of cuemakers. Besides that, back in that time, I don't think there was as much "collector" demand for the cues. Look at it this way, you pay 10k for a Bushka, you want to make sure its a Bushka, back then, you weren't paying 10k for a Bushka.

Joe

 

[Cornerman]

I've scanned in over a dozen mailers on my site now, most from the 1992 - 1994 boom era in cue collecting. We thought the prices were high then, but were they?

Great. Now I'm going to have to go into the storeroom and dig out all of the mailers I've gotten from the late 80's on.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

no offense towards pete but i don't understand how he could be the leading authority on bushka cues?

IMO, there are several authorities on Balabushka cues. Pete Tascarella should be, by far, the leading authority for many reasons. Bill Schick might be the next leading authority, for other reasons.

Pete is the leading authority because... well I suppose you could read my Balabushka article. But, if you purchased Balabushka's equipment, and it came with all of his cue making notes, and a slew of partially made Balabushkas which made a veritable step by step "how I make cues" guide, then you'd be the leading authority. Having access to these every day for the rest of his life is something that no other cuemaker can claim. As far as I know, other than Pete (and his son), only Bill Schick got a day's peak at Balabushka's notes.

Even if you dissected Balabushka cues, it wouldn't give you the information that Pete has in his possession.

so at the time of his george's death surely there was one or more accomplished cue makers that were more familiar with george's work. :

Nobody. Seriously. He didn't let anyone watch him work, and he didn't talk about cues with anyone. If you had one of his cues, you'd have to dissect it to learn anything about it.

Fred

P.S. I'm planning on doing an extensive article on Pete Tascarella. To my knowledge, nobody has done a decent article on him. He has earned every right to be recognized as one of the elite old-school master hall-of-fame cuemakers

 

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I'm planning on doing an extensive article on Pete Tascarella. To my knowledge, nobody has done a decent article on him. He has earned every right to be recognized as one of the elite old-school master hall-of-fame cuemakers

look foward to reading that! i am a big fan of pete's work.

As far as I know, other than Pete (and his son), only Bill Schick got a day's peak at Balabushka's notes.

does anyone besides these three know what the notes contain?

 

[TATE]

look foward to reading that! i am a big fan of pete's work.



does anyone besides these three know what the notes contain?

It's written in Russian. All I saw was:

1.Findin cueski
2.cutin halfski
3. putin screwski
4. chargem armski
5. drinkem brewski

 

[icon]

It's written in Russian. All I saw was:

1.Findin cueski
2.cutin halfski
3. putin screwski
4. chargem armski
5. drinkem brewski

chris! i can't believe you would give away george's secrets like that!!!

 

[ribdoner]

It's written in Russian. All I saw was:

1.Findin cueski
2.cutin halfski
3. putin screwski
4. chargem armski
5. drinkem brewski

LOL-tavarish com-a-rod

 

[poolchady]

It's written in Russian. All I saw was:

1.Findin cueski
2.cutin halfski
3. putin screwski
4. chargem armski
5. drinkem brewski

Haha ~ This is funny ~~ ski~

 

[Cornerman]

It's written in Russian. All I saw was:

1.Findin cueski
2.cutin halfski
3. putin screwski
4. chargem armski
5. drinkem brewski

LOL!

Fred <~~~ but it was coffski, not brewski

 

[Cornerman]

does anyone besides these three know what the notes contain?

Josephine? And maybe at that, she probably never looked at it or knew what she was looking at.

I doubt anyone else has seen the notes to any extent. Pete has shared a handful of things, and for all we know, there's not much else there. But, he's carried on George's wishes and kept all the doors mostly shut. The notes are in George's writing, a mishmash of notes, reminders, dimensions and a look at what he was thinking when he did this or changed that.

What is also important in addition to the notes are setups of each piece of equipment, the tools, and George's stores of parts (inlays, bumpers, screws, dowels, etc.) All went to Pete (except a meat cutting band saw). And what might be the most important pieces of information were what I called the "Treasure Trove," a box under the couple's bed filled with partials, billets, full blanks, short blanks, almost finished and just started Balabushkas. There was even a glued up un-turned Szamboti blank in all of its glory.

Like the Arc of the Covenant or the Holy Grail itself, there were only rumors of these and their existence until Pete graciously took a picture.

Fred <~~~ okay, maybe it wasn't that secretive