maple dowels
- Thread starter jocnat
- Start date
If the dowels were not processed (boards selected and cut) with cue shafts in mind, they are likely not suitable overall. But, out of 600, there is incredible potential. For starters, growth rings per inch and how much grain run off is of interest.
To start with, randomly pick 100 of them. Count the number of growth rings you see at both ends of each dowel and average that number. Then, get the average of all 100 dowels. Assuming the average diameter is .9, divide that average by .9. This gives you the average rings per inch for your 100 sample. For example, if you pick up a dowel and see 6 grain lines at one end, and 8 at the other, the average for that dowel is 7. If all dowels wind up being the same, then 7/.9 = 8 (after rounding up). That is 8 GPI.
For the run off, for each of the 100 dowels, start at one end of the dowel and find the grain line that is running through the center of the dowel. Carefully trace it up the dowel until it either disappears out of the side of the dowel, or you reach the other end. If the grain line runs the entire length of the dowel, put it in the best pile. If the grain runs 3/4+ of the length of the dowel, put it in the 2nd best pile. The rest go in the 3rd pile. If the dowel was obviously not cut in the direction of the grain lines, they will likely disappear very fast and after looking at 100 of them, you will quickly learn to see the signs of grain lines that run with the dowel versus grain lines that run at an angle to the axis of the dowel.
After you divide those 100 into the 3 piles, count the totals for each pile and report back. If these are generic dowels that were not cut purposely to create no run off dowels, the 3rd pile will be way larger than the other 2.
There is a lot more to shaft grading than this, but these two things are pretty easy for anyone to look at and judge.
Kelly
To start with, randomly pick 100 of them. Count the number of growth rings you see at both ends of each dowel and average that number. Then, get the average of all 100 dowels. Assuming the average diameter is .9, divide that average by .9. This gives you the average rings per inch for your 100 sample. For example, if you pick up a dowel and see 6 grain lines at one end, and 8 at the other, the average for that dowel is 7. If all dowels wind up being the same, then 7/.9 = 8 (after rounding up). That is 8 GPI.
For the run off, for each of the 100 dowels, start at one end of the dowel and find the grain line that is running through the center of the dowel. Carefully trace it up the dowel until it either disappears out of the side of the dowel, or you reach the other end. If the grain line runs the entire length of the dowel, put it in the best pile. If the grain runs 3/4+ of the length of the dowel, put it in the 2nd best pile. The rest go in the 3rd pile. If the dowel was obviously not cut in the direction of the grain lines, they will likely disappear very fast and after looking at 100 of them, you will quickly learn to see the signs of grain lines that run with the dowel versus grain lines that run at an angle to the axis of the dowel.
After you divide those 100 into the 3 piles, count the totals for each pile and report back. If these are generic dowels that were not cut purposely to create no run off dowels, the 3rd pile will be way larger than the other 2.
There is a lot more to shaft grading than this, but these two things are pretty easy for anyone to look at and judge.
Kelly
shaft blanks?
If they're more than 29.5 inches. At that size and taper I'd have to imagine they were intended to be shafts and would therefore think you have reason to hope. Things I think are prevelant:
cracks
Grain runout
Movement after making a cut
Rings per inch
density
tone
Color
mineral streaks
Order of importance will depend on whether you are keeping them or selling them, and to whom.
If they're more than 29.5 inches. At that size and taper I'd have to imagine they were intended to be shafts and would therefore think you have reason to hope. Things I think are prevelant:
cracks
Grain runout
Movement after making a cut
Rings per inch
density
tone
Color
mineral streaks
Order of importance will depend on whether you are keeping them or selling them, and to whom.
Hi,
I will buy them, and / or help you grade them. If I buy them you save shipping because i'm not too far away.(i think) and I can probably drive there.
Bill
reply with a private message please
I will buy them, and / or help you grade them. If I buy them you save shipping because i'm not too far away.(i think) and I can probably drive there.
Bill
reply with a private message please
selecting best shaft wood
i have some shaft wood rpi is from 8 rpi to 40 rpi
could you give details on how to rate shaft wood.
thank you mike
i have some shaft wood rpi is from 8 rpi to 40 rpi
could you give details on how to rate shaft wood.
thank you mike
There are others around here more qualified to comment but here are some of my thoughts:
Grain Run out: Boards will generally break along the plane of a grain. Think of board breaks in martial arts, or shovel handles, or antique furnitures legs. minimum runoff ensures maximum size of that weak plane and maximum strength for a given shaft.
Also, wood from different parts of the log handle moisture different, like cupping of a flat sawn board. If you can get a shaft dowel where the center ring is centered on all 4 sides, then you have a dowel that is from the same part of the tree all along the dowel, and therefore handles moisture changes as uniformly as possible.
Personally I tend to pick a grain in the center on one and and "ink" it to the other end. I shoot for it being <3/8" from center on the other end without major movement in between.
By inking and carefully choosing center positions, a person can make a ~1/4" runout dowel into a straight grained shaft with a 13mm tip.
Movement after making cuts: immediate movement after the cut is due to internal stress in the board. Properly dried boards will have minimal internal stress. If it moves much after the cut it will probably do so with each cut. Thus, cuemakers take smaller and smaller cuts as they approach finish size. This minimizes the amount of warpage in the shaft from internal stress. Assuming the dowel was in equilibrium with the envroment when cut, later movement is due to the dowel not handling adaptation to the changing environment uniformly(see grain run out, paragraph 2). This can be delayed in a shop if the environment is controlled but will manifest once the cue leaves home.
Color is influenced by how the boards are dried as well as more obvious things. Whiter is generally considered better but considering how difficult it is to find a quality dowel, most would rather have a good "brown" dowel that will stay straight and play well then a warped white shaft that doesn't play nice.
Mineral streaks are considered ugly but in small amounts can be overlooked for the same reasons as color.
I'm even less qualified to comment on these but:
The tone a dowel generates when struck tends to indicate the ridigity and flexibility in the dowel which may be key elements in how the shaft plays.
RPI: Most look for 12 or more but may accept less. Common practice dictates that the more the better but I can't say that I know exactly how this lends to the quality of the product.
Density: Most hope for 4 ounce, or close to it, or more shafts but this of course depends upon the joint, ferrule, tip size and such. Common practice dictates that the higher the better.
If you are rating dowels for sale, I would create groups and note the easily established characteristics of each group. Most buyers don't expect you to know the characteristics that are more difficult to establish.
If you are rating them for your own use, I'd do some tests to establish which items are most important to you.
Anyway, its like buying a diamond. They are natural products so in the end people have to take the best compromise between all these factors and price/time.
Grain Run out: Boards will generally break along the plane of a grain. Think of board breaks in martial arts, or shovel handles, or antique furnitures legs. minimum runoff ensures maximum size of that weak plane and maximum strength for a given shaft.
Also, wood from different parts of the log handle moisture different, like cupping of a flat sawn board. If you can get a shaft dowel where the center ring is centered on all 4 sides, then you have a dowel that is from the same part of the tree all along the dowel, and therefore handles moisture changes as uniformly as possible.
Personally I tend to pick a grain in the center on one and and "ink" it to the other end. I shoot for it being <3/8" from center on the other end without major movement in between.
By inking and carefully choosing center positions, a person can make a ~1/4" runout dowel into a straight grained shaft with a 13mm tip.
Movement after making cuts: immediate movement after the cut is due to internal stress in the board. Properly dried boards will have minimal internal stress. If it moves much after the cut it will probably do so with each cut. Thus, cuemakers take smaller and smaller cuts as they approach finish size. This minimizes the amount of warpage in the shaft from internal stress. Assuming the dowel was in equilibrium with the envroment when cut, later movement is due to the dowel not handling adaptation to the changing environment uniformly(see grain run out, paragraph 2). This can be delayed in a shop if the environment is controlled but will manifest once the cue leaves home.
Color is influenced by how the boards are dried as well as more obvious things. Whiter is generally considered better but considering how difficult it is to find a quality dowel, most would rather have a good "brown" dowel that will stay straight and play well then a warped white shaft that doesn't play nice.
Mineral streaks are considered ugly but in small amounts can be overlooked for the same reasons as color.
I'm even less qualified to comment on these but:
The tone a dowel generates when struck tends to indicate the ridigity and flexibility in the dowel which may be key elements in how the shaft plays.
RPI: Most look for 12 or more but may accept less. Common practice dictates that the more the better but I can't say that I know exactly how this lends to the quality of the product.
Density: Most hope for 4 ounce, or close to it, or more shafts but this of course depends upon the joint, ferrule, tip size and such. Common practice dictates that the higher the better.
If you are rating dowels for sale, I would create groups and note the easily established characteristics of each group. Most buyers don't expect you to know the characteristics that are more difficult to establish.
If you are rating them for your own use, I'd do some tests to establish which items are most important to you.
Anyway, its like buying a diamond. They are natural products so in the end people have to take the best compromise between all these factors and price/time.
I have about 600 maple dowels that are between .875 and .920. The boxes are dated Aug 1976. Most are straight. Are these candidates to be shaft dowels? What do I look for?
Thanks......
just out of curiosity where did these come from????? palmer or something?
should be quite a few good shafts there.
thanks john.
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Are these dowels tapered or are they straight and the diameters fall between these sizes?
Dick
If they're 35 year old maple, they should be totally seasoned and they should stay straight. The small diameter might be a limiter for some of the shafts but mayber not many. GPI is way over rated.
Thanks to all who have responded.These dowels are 30" long straight and the diameters fall between these sizes. There isn't much sugar (I'm assuming that is dark brown streaks). Of the ones i pulled 12 to 18 layers. and the grain runs straight. color I would say very light honey colored. These came from a cuemaker in Delaware, That passed away in September.I purchased the entire contents of the shop. Is there a way to determine density or weight Of what a shaft would be. Also of note is I have a very large amount of 1.5 inch plastic and delrin rod.
I'm also interested in some shaftwood and plastic, send me prices please.--Leonard
The forestry service did a study on the relationship between strength and growth rings for hickory. The study found that growth ring density on both ends of the spectrum were less strong than trees between 8 and 12 rpi. Food for thought.
To All that have Pm'd me. Thanks for the interest. I am going to take this slowly.
I Have a substantial amount invested in my purchases. I hope to pursue cue repair, building and selling part time. These forums have been very informative, though opinionated. I want to tread softly and enjoy it.
Thanks..........Jock
I Have a substantial amount invested in my purchases. I hope to pursue cue repair, building and selling part time. These forums have been very informative, though opinionated. I want to tread softly and enjoy it.
Thanks..........Jock
Sounds like you are doing the right thing. You'll enjoy the ride a lot more if you answer each and every IM sent to you.
Cuemakers hate wasting their time or knowledge.Mario