Mark Wilson Pool Clinc on YouTube

[Seth C.]

If you put Painters tape on the floor straight in line with the shot line put your right toe's along the edge of the tape, without moving you right foot step toward the table and to the left with your left foot with the toes of you left foot point toward the table, now bend over and place you bridge hand on the table.

This advice does not address the issue. The issue is that if you are going to start out by squarely straddling the shot line, directly looking down the line (as Mark advocates) - which means having one foot on each side of the shot line - then you must move your right foot (I’m assuming a right handed player) over to the left side of the shot line (painter’s tape) in order to end up where Mark wants you to be. Call it a dance step or something else, you have to move that right foot.

Watching the pros, including Allison Fisher, I don’t see them moving the right foot (and therefore, necessarily, their entire body) the way Mark says it must be done. This leads me to conclude that the better way to proceed is to do whatever shot line assessment you want - including standing behind the shot line, straddling it - but make your final upright position one from which you can drop down without moving your right foot (or without moving more than a very small distance - certainly less than you would consider to be the dance step).

I appreciate the feedback from some that putting the toes of the right foot against the shot line is not critical. The goals here are to be on the shot line when you get down on the shot, and to have sufficient clearance to swing the cue. I’m thinking that “sufficient” (my word) should probably be replaced by “just enough.” The less you have to place your body to the side of the shot line, the better.

 

[RabbiHippie]

Sounds Right to Me

When you drop down on the shot line, you are confirming you aim if you like what you see then you move your eyes to the cue ball take your practice stroke confirming where you want to hit the cue ball, STOP the cue transition your eyes to the OBJ ball slow back swing PAUSE then accelerate forward to the finish position.

This sounds right to me. It’s the “confirm your aim” part that I’m wondering about. (This is getting down to a really minute level that’s almost unconscious.) Do your eyes trace a line from the cue ball to the contact point or do they stay fixated on the contact point? I’ve had better success staying fixated on the contact point.

Maybe this works for me because I’ve always “aimed with my feet” while standing during the alignment phase of my pre-shot routine. Lee Brett describes something like this.

Even when I watch good players and pay attention to how their eyes move, it’s hard for me to tell exactly what they’re focusing on.

 

[nine_ball6970]

This sounds right to me. It’s the “confirm your aim” part that I’m wondering about. (This is getting down to a really minute level that’s almost unconscious.) Do your eyes trace a line from the cue ball to the contact point or do they stay fixated on the contact point? I’ve had better success staying fixated on the contact point.

Maybe this works for me because I’ve always “aimed with my feet” while standing during the alignment phase of my pre-shot routine. Lee Brett describes something like this.

Even when I watch good players and pay attention to how their eyes move, it’s hard for me to tell exactly what they’re focusing on.

You are making sure the shaft is centered on the line/path you want the cue ball to go to contact the object ball.

 

[UGC]

After watching the videos (I seen them when they were first posted to youtube), I took a desk and moved it against the wall. Measured out a straight shot line and put tape across the top (from one end to the other).. Put the tape on the floor to match the line on the desk. ---- And this one last step helped me more than anything---- I put a large mirror at the end of the desk perpendicular to the shot line (when you look in the mirror, it looks like one big straight line of tape). That way, I could see the stroke in real time. (and boy did I have to correct a lot...lol)

One thing I noticed I needed to do to line up on the shot correctly was take a step to the left to start. Like a field goal kicker lines up in a game before the kick. Then, I could take the step to the right keeping in line with shot (like Mark shows in the video). Everything felt natural after that.

I have played in the league/tournaments since this setup and practice. And it has helped me a 1000%. Using that mirror, it is easy to see if you are stroking straight or not. What felt straight to me, was not reality at all.

This is now my Pre-shot routine. Thank you Mark Wilson!!!!

 

[RabbiHippie]

My Experience Too!

This advice does not address the issue. The issue is that if you are going to start out by squarely straddling the shot line, directly looking down the line (as Mark advocates) - which means having one foot on each side of the shot line - then you must move your right foot (I’m assuming a right handed player) over to the left side of the shot line (painter’s tape) in order to end up where Mark wants you to be. Call it a dance step or something else, you have to move that right foot.

Watching the pros, including Allison Fisher, I don’t see them moving the right foot (and thterefore, necessarily, their entire body) the way Mark says it must be done. This leads me to conclude that the better way to proceed is to do whatever shot line assessment you want - including standing behind the shot line, straddling it - but make your final upright position one from which you can drop down without moving your right foot (or without moving more than a very small distance - certainly less than you would consider to be the dance step).

I appreciate the feedback from some that putting the toes of the right foot against the shot line is not critical. The goals here are to be on the shot line when you get down on the shot, and to have sufficient clearance to swing the cue. I’m thinking that “sufficient” (my word) should probably be replaced by “just enough.” The less you have to place your body to the side of the shot line, the better.

One thing I noticed I needed to do to line up on the shot correctly was take a step to the left to start. Like a field goal kicker lines up in a game before the kick. Then, I could take the step to the right keeping in line with shot (like Mark shows in the video). Everything felt natural after that.

Yes! This is what I do, too. I also came up with this kind of leftwards side-step or "dance step." By recording lots of practice sessions using painters tape, I'm confident that the toes of my right foot are consistently falling back on the shot line after the side-step. End result is that I'm positioned the same as Mark's photos except that my right foot is slightly turned (45-degrees) rather than perpendicular (90-degrees).

My game also showed immediate improvement, but I questioned whether it was a good technique because (1) my body is moving away from the shot line as I step to the left, making it possible to “lose” the line of aim; (2) no one else I’ve seen does this; and (3) perhaps trivial, but it looks ridiculous and brought some unflattering comments in the pool hall that caused me to doubt.

 

[Seth C.]

This sounds right to me. It’s the “confirm your aim” part that I’m wondering about. (This is getting down to a really minute level that’s almost unconscious.) Do your eyes trace a line from the cue ball to the contact point or do they stay fixated on the contact point? I’ve had better success staying fixated on the contact point.

Maybe this works for me because I’ve always “aimed with my feet” while standing during the alignment phase of my pre-shot routine. Lee Brett describes something like this.

Even when I watch good players and pay attention to how their eyes move, it’s hard for me to tell exactly what they’re focusing on.

Eye movement is a part of the routine that I’ve done less work on and feel less mastery of than just about any other part of shotmaking. Having said that, my efforts to get myself to focus on the OB have led me to the following conclusion. Sometimes when I focus solely on the OB and feel “locked in” on the right line, I am. And it sure feels great when I stroke the cue and make the shot center pocket. But at other times I am not locked in on the right line, even though I think I am. By moving my focus back and forth from the OB to the CB - and, in some cases, beyond the OB or in front of the CB (i.e., looking down the shaft), I get feedback that alerts me that I am not actually on the correct shot line. Maybe put another way, if we could always aim perfectly correctly with our feet, then staring only at the CB would be great, but since we can’t be perfect in setting our feet, it makes sense to take advantage of the opportunity to assess the correctness or incorrectness of our aim line by “looking around.” I do subscribe to looking at the OB last, when ready to pull the cue back.

 

[RabbiHippie]

I'd agree that this is what's happening. I don't know if I consciously "roll" or "flick" my eyes from the cue stick to the contact point, but I'm aware of the straight line made by the cue stick as I'm dropping down. It's hard to know for sure exactly what my eyes are doing, but I feel like I'm staying focused on the object ball and "know" where the cue stick is.

I've been accused of overthinking things. ;-)

 

[nine_ball6970]

After watching the videos (I seen them when they were first posted to youtube), I took a desk and moved it against the wall. Measured out a straight shot line and put tape across the top (from one end to the other).. Put the tape on the floor to match the line on the desk. ---- And this one last step helped me more than anything---- I put a large mirror at the end of the desk perpendicular to the shot line (when you look in the mirror, it looks like one big straight line of tape). That way, I could see the stroke in real time. (and boy did I have to correct a lot...lol)

One thing I noticed I needed to do to line up on the shot correctly was take a step to the left to start. Like a field goal kicker lines up in a game before the kick. Then, I could take the step to the right keeping in line with shot (like Mark shows in the video). Everything felt natural after that.

I have played in the league/tournaments since this setup and practice. And it has helped me a 1000%. Using that mirror, it is easy to see if you are stroking straight or not. What felt straight to me, was not reality at all.

This is now my Pre-shot routine. Thank you Mark Wilson!!!!

Thank you for the post. There is a youtube video by nic barrow about this. You have to be careful when you take the step left as your head will also want to go left as well. It takes practice to keep your head on the shot line from a standing position to when you are down in your stance while putting your feet in the correct position.

 

[UGC]

Thank you for the post. There is a youtube video by nic barrow about this. You have to be careful when you take the step left as your head will also want to go left as well. It takes practice to keep your head on the shot line from a standing position to when you are down in your stance while putting your feet in the correct position.

I agree. This takes some practice to make it second nature. And I do have to think about it while I'm at the table, going from standing into the shooting position, keeping the eyes fixed on the shot line.

It's still a work in progress for me right now. I know that if I keep working on it though, it will become instinct. And thank you for the reply.

 

[Seth C.]

I've been accused of overthinking things. ;-)

Me too. I’m finally starting to accuse myself of it, too.

Actually, I’m on a quest of sorts to make it all simpler and less conscious. Thus my desire to not have to contort or “dance,” yet still drop down on the shot line.

 

[Seth C.]

Thank you for the post. There is a youtube video by nic barrow about this. You have to be careful when you take the step left as your head will also want to go left as well. It takes practice to keep your head on the shot line from a standing position to when you are down in your stance while putting your feet in the correct position.

Yes, it does require care! And practice! And even with both, it is still unnatural and not what I see the pros doing. The question that continues to be begged here is: that is the “correct position” for your feet? The more that the right foot can be on the shot line, the less movement (inherently contorted) is required. I, for one, am going to be testing out how far I can put my right foot onto the shot line and still feel that I have clearance and a straight alignment of tip, bridge, grip hand and elbow. Gonna have to set up a camera for this.

 

[Pete]

There's lots of good stuff in Mark's book and I enjoyed watching this lesson. But (there's always a but) I think one of the key things players need to do when gathering advice is to separate the facts from the opinions. I think it's a fact that top players cue more deliberately and Mark points this out perfectly in this session! However, I don't think it's a fact that you need to have your plant foot right inside the shot line for "clearance". Or even have your plant foot turned as extremely as Mark recommends. Having your plant foot turned more than say 20 degrees or so makes it difficult to properly step into the shot.

When it comes to addressing the ball properly, I think we should start with emulating snooker players and adjust from there. Of course that's just another opinion.

I'm a Ham "N Egger (FYI), but I teach a version of Bert Kinister's Advanced Fundamentals and Lee Brett's Stance.

 

[hang-the-9]

Those videos are good. Too good in fact. All of you stop watching it so only I get better from them, I don't need all you people improving and making my job of beating the other players more difficult.

If every pool player watched this little series there will be no more APA 3s or 4s out there unless they were really stubborn, lazy or just have some physical handicap that prevents them from playing.

 

[Pete]

So for speed control I pull my cue backswing bac farther (same bridge distance) for more acceleration and less distance for slower acceleration. Should I still strive for the backswing to take 1.5 seconds (Ladies And Gentlemen)???

 

[Pete]

Those videos are good. Too good in fact. All of you stop watching it so only I get better from them, I don't need all you people improving and making my job of beating the other players more difficult.

If every pool player watched this little series there will be no more APA 3s or 4s out there unless they were really stubborn, lazy or just have some physical handicap that prevents them from playing.

Funny, I say the same type of thing.

If you live and play in the Boston Area you shouldn't watch this. It will be terrible for your game.

Now if you live on the West Coast, defiantly check this out...

 

[gogg]

As far as the question of foot placement goes, the step in after you stand square isn’t hard.
Face forward, step to the middle (shot line) and let your foot be about 45# (pretty natural),
Then the left goes out and forward as described.
Step to your mid-line puts your toes (or ball of the foot) ON the shot line, shoulder, elbow, head position etc.
At least this is the way that fits my body.
Head never leaves the line and maintains the “chin-lock”.

 

[Scott Lee]

RabbiHippie...There are three "pauses" or "stops" in SPF training. We call them Set, Pause, and Finish (and Freeze). They are the stop at the CB at the end of the warm up strokes (this needs to be at least 1/2 second, and is the let your brain confirm whether or not you're ready to hit the CB on the next swing). Then, you must have some sort of pause/stop at the end of the backswing, to facilitate a smoother transition from backswing to forward stroke. The length of this pause at the end of the backswing may be quick, or long, depending on the player. Most people tend to jerk the cue backwards, and therefore have a poor transition and inaccurate delivery. This is why we teach a slow backswing. Lastly, we finish our stroke, and freeze in the finish position (this helps us to evaluate how we did what we did). The PEP (Personal Eye Patterns) occurs after aiming, but before warm ups, and then you select the right time to switch your eyes from the CB to the OB. Most people prefer switching their eyes to the OB BEFORE starting the final backswing. If you wish to learn more about this, see a PBIA/SPF certified instructor.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

I think I understand you. You’re talking about a moment that is after the last practice stroke but before drawing back for the final stroke. This pause before drawing back seems to naturally slow down the backswing as well.

I admire, by the way, how you describe in one sentence what takes me a whole paragraph. :wink:

I was speculating about a similar pause and gaze on the object ball before the first practice stroke takes place. It seems to help me, but I don’t recall hearing an instructor recommend this like I have with the back pause in SPF.

 

[Scott Lee]

Pete...Just curious...if someone lives on the west coast, why should they be defiant about checking this out? We don't need more mad poolplayers ...there's enough as it is! LMAO

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Funny, I say the same type of thing.

If you live and play in the Boston Area you shouldn't watch this. It will be terrible for your game.

Now if you live on the West Coast, defiantly check this out...

 

[jrctherake]

I'm a fan of Efren. I also like to follow Mark and his thoughts.

Having said that, I'm not a fan of the don't worry about comfortable.

Ive never seen a stronger pro that looked uncomfortable. As a matter of fact, I'm 100% sure that they were comfortable.

Yep, most of them spent many hours making "a particular stance" comfy but, some of them spent many hours at the table and worked around "their comfortable stance", rather than changing what worked.

I also don't agree about the .3 to .8 average for amateur swing....unless he's averaging in the complete newbs.

I would think that most advanced amateurs are in average of .9 to 1.1 and the intermediate player averaging between .6 to .8..

Again, I'm not talking about local league Joe's.

I just don't see that many jerky backswings in advanced amateurs.

Afrer watching the vid, I went and found clips of some elite players. There are lots of times when svb, Dennis, alex etc...etc are way faster than 1.anything in their backswing.

Me, I don't think that slow = better. I think better = better.

If a player can make a long pause in transition work....great but, if you can play at very high level with a faster transition....that will work too.

Having said all that, I've been clocked and my pause is 1.0 on average when using side spin.....and ..9 when using bottom/top alone.

IMO...I spend more time in transition with side due to not hitting center and having to worry more about hitting an obscure spot off center.

JMO....

Jeff

 

[RabbiHippie]

SPF (Set / Pause / Finish)

RabbiHippie...There are three "pauses" or "stops" in SPF training. We call them Set, Pause, and Finish (and Freeze). They are the stop at the CB at the end of the warm up strokes (this needs to be at least 1/2 second, and is the let your brain confirm whether or not you're ready to hit the CB on the next swing). Then, you must have some sort of pause/stop at the end of the backswing, to facilitate a smoother transition from backswing to forward stroke. The length of this pause at the end of the backswing may be quick, or long, depending on the player. Most people tend to jerk the cue backwards, and therefore have a poor transition and inaccurate delivery. This is why we teach a slow backswing. Lastly, we finish our stroke, and freeze in the finish position (this helps us to evaluate how we did what we did). The PEP (Personal Eye Patterns) occurs after aiming, but before warm ups, and then you select the right time to switch your eyes from the CB to the OB. Most people prefer switching their eyes to the OB BEFORE starting the final backswing. If you wish to learn more about this, see a PBIA/SPF certified instructor.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Thank you, Scott, for taking the time to elaborate on SPF. I guess I need more precision or detail in my explanations than most people who just "get it." That's what I like about Mark Wilson's book.

I have access to an excellent PBIA/SPF certified instructor and pick his brain all the time. Here's the video that introduced me to SPF …

The Pool Stroke! A quick lesson on the SPF Stroke!