Mark Wilson Pool Clinc on YouTube

longhorns2

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stating that pros generally have slower backswings compared to the average amateur player is one thing, but I'm not sure where Mark got that the average pro is between 1.2 to 1.8 seconds.

I just looked at random youtube videos of Alex, Little Ko, Dennis O, Efren, SVB, and Kaci, and they all had backswings 1.0s and below, averaging around 0.7-0.8s.

I think the main takeaway is that pros don't "fight" their backswing by thrusting forward until the backswing has stopped. I doubt he actually timed a bunch of pros and averaged it out
 

nine_ball6970

585 speed drunk
Silver Member
Stating that pros generally have slower backswings compared to the average amateur player is one thing, but I'm not sure where Mark got that the average pro is between 1.2 to 1.8 seconds.

I just looked at random youtube videos of Alex, Little Ko, Dennis O, Efren, SVB, and Kaci, and they all had backswings 1.0s and below, averaging around 0.7-0.8s.

He stated from start of backswing to tip contact of cue ball. Some may be slower back or have a longer pause or start slower forward. That is one thing I have noticed watching pros at tournaments. Their strokes are much slower and more controlled. A great example is Roberto Gomez.

I remember a digicue thread where Jayson 's pause before coming forward was .35 seconds. It was within a couple hundredths of that every single time.
 

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the main takeaway is that pros don't "fight" their backswing by thrusting forward until the backswing has stopped. I doubt he actually timed a bunch of pros and averaged it out
That's what he surely implied in the video. By providing those specific numbers, there will be people who will attempt to hit those targets because that is the "pro range". If someone's natural/comfortable backswing is in the 0.6-0.8s range and they attempt to double it to stay out of the "amateur range", then I can see how that can actually be counterproductive in many ways. Not everyone should have the same exact timing as Allison Fisher or Chris Melling.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stating that pros generally have slower backswings compared to the average amateur player is one thing, but I'm not sure where Mark got that the average pro is between 1.2 to 1.8 seconds.

I just looked at random youtube videos of Alex, Little Ko, Dennis O, Efren, SVB, and Kaci, and they all had backswings 1.0s and below, averaging around 0.7-0.8s.

I've been paying attention to that too when I've watched videos, and it doesn't seem to me like they're at 1.2 to 1.8 seconds either. I bet he's talking about pros who he has worked with in person and video recorded, like Alison Fisher who has a distinct pause, and Nick Varner who I know he works with at his college.

And, regardless of the exact time, we all know amateurs who jerk back and forth quickly, which pros rarely do, so I bet it's fair to say that most amateurs could benefit from slowing down their stroke.
 

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Timing the strokes of players would seem cut and dry for instructors, but for some reason many seem to exaggerate their stopwatches. I had a well respected instructor on here state that Buddy Hall's pause was 2 seconds long. For any cue discipline, a 2 second pause at the end of the backstroke is an eternity!
 

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Correction...

I actually went back and read the post. The statement was Hall's pause was between 3-4 seconds. Yikes. Not all stopwatches are created equal.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
For anyone that is interested, Dr. Dave just posted a new video on the stance where he dismisses the "orthodox" stance advocated by Mark Wilson:

Pre-Stance Routine ... A New Approach
Feb 26, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ay9OXnbzsM

I found it interesting to compare Dr. Dave's clearance to Ralph Eckert's clearance:

https://youtu.be/rDkP6iaP3MY

Dr. Daves elbow is not behind his head and therefore he is not properly aligned. Watch the snooker players and top-up-and-coming pool players. In the frontal view, the elbow should be pointing up right behind your head. For whatever reason (probably aestetic ones from the photographer) it's almost impossible to find a picture to illustrate this. But when you see the persons shoulder on the side of their head, from a frontal position, it's bad. This picture is the closest I could get to frontal view, and even that is turned a bit. It shows you the general idea. Shoulder, elbow, head, v-of-bridge, all in a line. For a snooker player, the chest and chin would also hold the cue to that line. The cue has no choice other than go straight.
 

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BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's a whole nother' topic SP_99 but one I've struggled with. Early on when I went to a more open snooker like stance I didn't twist my hips properly and ended up with my shoulder peaking out like Dr. Dave's. One pro that has a way more square upper body than most is Oscar Dominguiz.
 

7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was watching an Efren Reyes video, and there is a still of his stance, and he looks like he might be in the orthodox stance that Mark Wilson recommends:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IocXrswOU1o&t=6m7s

I don't know if it's the camera angle, but his feet look like they might even be to the left of the shot line. Efren is shooting his own push out, which he shot here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IocXrswOU1o&t=4m34s

It looks to me like Efren stands to the left of the shot line while contemplating his shot, then shuffles slightly to the left to get into his stance.
 
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