Market research request

Joe T

Joe T

Well-known member
After my post requesting that safety play come into effect once the DCC 10 Ball Ring games get down to the final 2 players I had a chance to talk to the man himself, Greg Sullivan. While talking with Greg he recommended that I or we the az community try out a new form of 9 ball that he has invented and has been testing out whenever he gets the chance. It?s called NO MISS ROLL OUT.

The idea of the game is to create a little more offense and hopefully excitement by encouraging players to shoot some tougher shots rather than go for the safe and BIH. I told him I would give it a go (good excuse to get out of the house for a while) and I hope some of you will as well because I?m sure we?ll all have some different views while playing it.

The rules are very similar to Texas Express with 1 exception, you ALWAYS have the option to roll out. But the name of the game is NO MISS rollout so once you roll out the shooter whoever takes the shot must pocket a ball (any ball on a legal hit) and if the shooter does not pocket a ball the opposing player gets ball in hand and the other player is on 1 foul. You do not have to roll out just because you?re hooked, you can opt to kick anytime.

This takes out a little bit of the ?you missed and I?m hooked? factor and I?m thinking it will also encourage players to try some tougher position shots or to take more chances while breaking up clusters.

Personally I?m an equal fan of great offensive shots as well as great defensive shots as great offense takes courage & confidence while great defense takes creativity & finesse. I think this game will reward the more offensive players (great shot makers) just a tad but that might make the game a little more interesting for the fans and possibly make better shot makers out of all of us.

I?m hoping to play some over the weekend and hope some of you will also and if you do try to take note of the time you start and finish along with the scores of your set so we can provide Greg with some time averages along with our overall thoughts.

One more thing;
I?m not sure if the no miss rule applies to the 1st shot after the break but I?m guessing it doesn?t.
 
Interesting idea. Anything to change the game from the crap shoot it is now.
 
CrownCityCorey said:
Ain't that "two-shot shootout" or "two-foul ball-in-hand?"
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No, if the shooter shoots and does not pocket a ball, the incoming player gets ball in hand. If you hit the ball but do not pocket it, the incoming player has ball in hand. There is no scratch or foul to create the bih.
 
I just talked with Greg again and he said that you can play it either way after the break and would like to see us try it both ways.
He also said he would really appreciate it if we just got out there and try the game and he looks forward to all the different views.

Corey wanna play some this weekend, I'll meet you half way. If we leave now and drive fast we might be able to get together by Sunday, play a set and turn around.
 
Joe T said:
I just talked with Greg again and he said that you can play it either way after the break and would like to see us try it both ways.
He also said he would really appreciate it if we just got out there and try the game and he looks forward to all the different views.

Corey wanna play some this weekend, I'll meet you half way. If we leave now and drive fast we might be able to get together by Sunday, play a set and turn around.
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LOL! I have done that type of thing in the past. 24hrs straight to Dallas. Never again. I'm too old for that (back kills me). Flying from now on :D .
 
Pushout said:
No, if the shooter shoots and does not pocket a ball, the incoming player gets ball in hand. If you hit the ball but do not pocket it, the incoming player has ball in hand. There is no scratch or foul to create the bih.
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No doubt I could be wrong as I have never played it, but I thought "two-foul" was where you roll-out (1 foul) at any time in the game, if your opponent takes the shot they must pocket it or a 2nd foul is commited and if your opponent declines the shot, you must pocket it or that is a 2nd foul. No?
 
If so, my initial reaction is mixed. PS: I had a LONG talk with MR. Sullivan recently about the DCC and many of its dimensions including the attraction of more female players, and as everyone knows, he's a great guy...LOVES the game of pool and as the subject of this thread points out, is wracking his brain to think of ways to energize this sport so GO GREG!!!!!
 
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av84fun said:
JoeT wrote..."The rules are very similar to Texas Express with 1 exception, you ALWAYS have the option to roll out. But the name of the game is NO MISS rollout so once you roll out the shooter whoever takes the shot must pocket a ball (any ball on a legal hit) and if the shooter does not pocket a ball the opposing player gets ball in hand and the other player is on 1 foul. You do not have to roll out just because you?re hooked, you can opt to kick anytime. "

Just to be sure I understand, if a player exercises the roll out option the other player can shoot from there or give the shot back just like any other roll out. Right?

If so, my initial reaction is mixed. It seems to create a scenario where a lucky roll can be converted into a skill-based "challenge" i.e. "I can make the ball from the new position and you can't, with a severe penalty for being wrong about that.

HOWEVER, the extinction of safety play is a real issue. Personally, I get more "excited" about a 3 rail safety route to a lock up safety than any cut or bank. But that's just me.

The fairly recent version of 7 Ball was "offense on steriods" but that didn't seem to "catch a gear" with the public.

But if you wanted to go total offense, you could just use the 7 Ball rules for 9 Ball but again, that sacrifices one of the most artistic aspects of the game IMHO.

Where I come down is that 9 Ball is not lacking in offense and is radically more offensive in nature...and faster per game...than any of the other major games (that I can think of at the moment).

The problem with pool in general and 9 Ball in particular is not a lack of offense but rather that it is just NOT an exciting sport to watch FOR THE MASSES!

Make no mistake, it excites US as DEVOTED fans but there just simply aren't enough of US to make pool a mass audience sport. Clearly, in other countries it IS a widely popular sport but as I have commented before, there isn't an NFL, or NBA or MLB or NHL in the Phillipines and other countries.

Possibly pool is vastly more popular in many larger nations...and that seems to be the case in the orient but again, the massively popular sports in America don't exist elsewhere and in America ANY sport has to compete with the major sports for the time, attention and money of the general public. That is just a HUGELY tough nut to crack.

IMHO the ONLY thing that has SIGNIFICANTlY boosted pool's mass popularity in the past 40 years is MOVIES...TWO of them..The Hustler and TCOM and in my opinion the ONLY thing that could really juice the sport again is ANOTHER movie of the calibre of those two films to the exclusion of the several other pool-related films that have been released...none of which were even remotely of the public and critical appeal of The Big Two.

I am working with a group on just the kind of film that could become one of the Big Three. We hope for the best re: the Kid Delicious project and hope it is a blockbuster! But our view is that the KEY is to come with what would become the Fast Eddie Trilogy because HE (since Gleason is dead) is the "franchise."

Stay tuned!
(-:

PS: I had a LONG talk with MR. Sullivan recently about the DCC and many of its dimensions including the attraction of more female players, and as everyone knows, he's a great guy...LOVES the game of pool and as the subject of this thread points out, is wracking his brain to think of ways to energize this sport so GO GREG!!!!!
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Man, take a breath. He would just appreciate it if some of us would give the game a try and provide some feedback.
PS I love the 3 rail safe also.
 
CrownCityCorey said:
No doubt I could be wrong as I have never played it, but I thought "two-foul" was where you roll-out (1 foul) at any time in the game, if your opponent takes the shot they must pocket it or a 2nd foul is commited and if your opponent declines the shot, you must pocket it or that is a 2nd foul. No?
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The original pushout rules, you push and I take the shot and scratch or fail to hit the on ball=2 fouls. Ball in hand, incoming player. You could not pushout after a scratch or an already committed foul, or you would give up ball in hand because of the 2nd foul.

Edit: You're talking what Greg proposes in your quote here? I was referring to the old pushout rules. You're correct if talking about Greg's game.
 
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