Masse' Shots - Guidelines for Shooting?

[bill190]

I'm practicing Masse' (curve) shots and having difficulty with short -vs- long shots.

Specifically I'm shooting around another ball and I need to get the cue ball to do its curving right away for a shorter shot, or travel a long distance then curve for a longer shot (A). Or curve around a ball which is closer to the object ball. (B)

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg

START(
%AD0D2%Dr5Z6%Eg5D4%Hn8S1%Pm8D5%QY6G4%Rk8P4%_E4E1%`U9G2%al8D5
%bq4Y6%cm9T3%dm7E5
)END

I'm getting better by just experimenting, but I wonder if there are any guidelines/rules for shooting Masse'/curve shots which would help me to remember what to do in specific situations?

Such as for a gentle curve (A) - shoot a specific way.
For an immediate curve - shoot a specific way.
For the ball to go straight, then radically curve at the last moment (B) - shoot a specific way.
Etc.

 

[sjm]

I'm practicing Masse' (curve) shots and having difficulty with short -vs- long shots.

Specifically I'm shooting around another ball and I need to get the cue ball to do its curving right away for a shorter shot, or travel a long distance then curve for a longer shot (A). Or curve around a ball which is closer to the object ball. (B)

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg

START(
%AD0D2%Dr5Z6%Eg5D4%Hn8S1%Pm8D5%QY6G4%Rk8P4%_E4E1%`U9G2%al8D5
%bq4Y6%cm9T3%dm7E5
)END

I'm getting better by just experimenting, but I wonder if there are any guidelines/rules for shooting Masse'/curve shots which would help me to remember what to do in specific situations?

Such as for a gentle curve (A) - shoot a specific way.
For an immediate curve - shoot a specific way.
For the ball to go straight, then radically curve at the last moment (B) - shoot a specific way.
Etc.

Wow, tough subject. It's scary how many different theories on masse shots I've heard over the years. It sounds like we’re talking about masses without a vertical elevation of the cue, so I’ll restrict my consideration to those.

Let's start with some generalizations about standard masse shots:

1) The cue ball will go straight a certain distance before it curves. Or, as some say, it will “slide” before it “curves.”

2) It will require a certain minimum amount of both elevation and speed of stroke to ensure the correct amount of curve after the slide.

3) For a given hit on the cue ball and speed of stroke, the greater the elevation angle, the sooner it will curve.

4) For a given cue elevation angle and hit on the cue ball, the harder you hit it, the further it will slide before curving.

You can make masses as complicated as you like if you regularly vary your cue elevation angle, amount of english, and speed of stroke. The number of permutations is downright disheartening.

If you wish to simplify things a little, try to apply the same amount of english on all right and left hand masses, and try not to elevate the cue more than necessary for any given shot.

A top pro once recommended to me that I vary my elevation angle as little as possible on masses, as it would help me master the various combinations of slide and curve faster. That advice definitely helped me improve my masses.

As an experiment, you might want to try a constant cue elevation angle and a fixed amount of english for a while. Yes, there are some masse shots you won’t be able to execute at the elevation angle and amount of english you select, but you will find yourself mastering the slide/curve permutations fairly quickly.

Finally, I know a couple of drills that are useful for masse, too. Let me know if you’re interested.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I'm practicing Masse' (curve) shots and having difficulty with short -vs- long shots.
...

How to aim masse shots was discovered nearly 200 years ago, and is in Coriolis's book on pool physics. The method works. If you don't read French or are unwilling to pay the $80 or so that a reprint of his book costs, get Robert Byrne's "Advanced Technique in Pool and Billiards" which has an illustration of how to plan a simple masse shot on the cover, and a clear explanation inside.

You probably need a coach.

The best place to see masse shots is where people play carom billiards well -- soft masse is absolutely standard and common at carom games other than 3-cushion, and the use of longer masse is fairly common at 3-C for top players.

 

[Bluewolf]

Thanks Bob! When attempting this shot, typically the cb curves around the ball in the way of the one I need to hit, but does not curve back. LOL.

Laura

 

[Colin Colenso]

How to aim masse shots was discovered nearly 200 years ago, and is in Coriolis's book on pool physics. The method works. If you don't read French or are unwilling to pay the $80 or so that a reprint of his book costs, get Robert Byrne's "Advanced Technique in Pool and Billiards" which has an illustration of how to plan a simple masse shot on the cover, and a clear explanation inside.

Here is basically the diagram.

 

[Colin Colenso]

In the diagram above, the final direction of the cue ball d-e is approximately parallel to a-b, though you'll find in practice that the further the cue ball travels before the spin takes, the less it comes back toward this path.

The line a-c is the initial direction of travel of the cue ball. Though there can be some squirt to the side of this line that Coriolis did not account for. This line a-c is parallel to the pointing direction of the cue.

The harder you hit, or the lower the elevation of the cue, the further the cue ball will travel out in this direction before the spin grips and turns the cue ball.

Understanding this will help you to make compensation and gradually develop a pretty acurate and consistant range of masse shots.

 

[sjm]

Masse shots are complex enough, i realize, but I can't help myself, I just have to ask a couple of questions:

1) As is noted in AZB trheads from time to time, cue balls can vary slightly in both radius and weight. A red dot is not quite the same as a blue dot, etc., etc.,etc. To what extent, if any, does the matter of what kind of cue ball you are using factor into the masse equation?

2) The type of felt (simonis, granito, a rug) in use and how worn it is observably factor into the masse equation. For example, for a given masse stroke, the curve seems to take differently when a table has just been refelted. How does one take the equipment into consideration when figuring masse shots?

 

[bill190]

....I know a couple of drills that are useful for masse, too. Let me know if you’re interested.

Yes, please post your drills.... Thanks for the excellent posts everyone!

 

[Colin Colenso]

Masse shots are complex enough, i realize, but I can't help myself, I just have to ask a couple of questions:

1) As is noted in AZB trheads from time to time, cue balls can vary slightly in both radius and weight. A red dot is not quite the same as a blue dot, etc., etc.,etc. To what extent, if any, does the matter of what kind of cue ball you are using factor into the masse equation?

2) The type of felt (simonis, granito, a rug) in use and how worn it is observably factor into the masse equation. For example, for a given masse stroke, the curve seems to take differently when a table has just been refelted. How does one take the equipment into consideration when figuring masse shots?

SJM,
The kind and size and weight of the cue ball are not variables in this equation so can be mostly ignored. However, a well polished cue ball should approximate this theory more accurately, as will playing on a slippery cloth as it tends to reduce some of the frictional distortions that tend to reduce the amount of arc of the shot.

I definitely find masses easier to steer on quick, slippery cloths. Part of the reason is that I don't have to hit so hard and so I can hit more accurately to the aiming position on the cueball.

 

[Bob Jewett]

1) As is noted in AZB trheads from time to time, cue balls can vary slightly in both radius and weight. A red dot is not quite the same as a blue dot, etc., etc.,etc. To what extent, if any, does the matter of what kind of cue ball you are using factor into the masse equation?

2) The type of felt (simonis, granito, a rug) in use and how worn it is observably factor into the masse equation. For example, for a given masse stroke, the curve seems to take differently when a table has just been refelted. How does one take the equipment into consideration when figuring masse shots?

In both cases the primary effect is in the cloth-ball friction which determines how quickly the cue ball takes its final line. Masse works much better on slippery cloth. On sticky cloth or with an old, worn cue ball, you sometimes have the problem of the cue ball sticking to the cloth more than to the tip, and then the shot doesn't work at all.

You can get that new cloth feeling in practice by waxing the cue ball. ArmorAll silicone spray works well.

As for drills, you might try the shots in the Artistic Pool program if you want to show off, but here is a progressive practice drill for practical shots:

Place an object ball in a corner pocket. Place a blocker ball a diamond away and frozen to the cushion. Place the cue ball a ball's width behind the blocker and half a ball off the cushion. Make the object ball with a masse shot.

You will need only about 45 degrees of cue stick elevation for this shot. Use both side spin and draw. Play the shot with just enough speed to get to the object ball -- ideally the cue ball should hit no cushions at any time, but it will take a while to develop that touch.

Here's a hint you shouldn't need: If the cue ball keeps running into the blocker, aim farther away from the blocker. If you miss the blocker by a lot, aim closer to the blocker so you don't have to curve the ball as much.

See how little elevation you can use and still make the shot.

After you have some feel for the shot, turn it into a progressive practice: If you make the shot, move the bolcker and cue ball half a diamond farther from the pocket. If you miss, move them closer, but not closer than one diamond from the pocket.

If half a ball of blocking is too hard for you, place the cue ball 3/4 ball off the cushion. If it is too easy, and you can make the shot from a whole table away most of the time, put the cue ball behind the whole ball, but in this case, do not put the cue ball on the cushion, as the rail groove on worn cloth will stick to the bottom of the cue ball -- move both the cue ball and the blocker ball off the cushion a little.
​

You should practice masse shots at the head of the table, where the cloth is cleaner and rips don't matter as much. If you are playing in a public room, find out when the tables are going to be recovered and ask the owner to let you practice the week before the recovery. The above drill shouldn't result in any rips unless you go at it like you're killing snakes -- instead, make it like kissing your grandmother.

There were three articles on masse shots in Billiards Digest from December 1997 to March 1998 and some other progressive masse drills, including a drill for safety play were in the May 2003 issue.

 

[sjm]

Yes, please post your drills.... Thanks for the excellent posts everyone!

Well, there are two drills that I like for half masses, and one is essentially the same as what Bob Jewett has already related.

The other is this. Place the cue ball in the jaws of a corner pocket and an object ball in the corner pocket nine feet away along the same long rail.

Then place a ball just next to the side pocket along that same long rail. Practice making the ball in the corner by masse-ing around that ball hanging near the side. It's relatively easy.

Next, add a second obstructing ball by freezing it horizontally to the ball near the side. Now, try the masse, it's a little harder than the first one.

Then, add a third obstructing ball by freezing it horizontally to the two other balls by the side. Now, try the masse, it's a little harder than the second one, and much harder than the first one.

Etc., etc., etc. My personal expereince is that pocketing the object ball with any regualrity once there are four balls or more that horizontally obstrcut you is most impressive.

What I like about the drill is that is helps you to master many different masse paths. And remember, half masses only, no verticals.

The same drill can also be done along the short rail to further refine your masse skills.

 

[bill190]

Thanks for the excellent progressive drills guys!

I can practice specific shots, but I think the progressive drills are those which really help me the most.

Again, I've got the best instructors in the world, right here!