Matching up question...

Z

zeeder

Will queue for cues
Silver Member
Do any of you ever stipulate that all money balls must be called when you're playing someone who constantly lucks/rolls the money balls?

I was playing a guy tonight and giving him the called 7, which I should be able to be fairly competitive with, but he kept lucking in and rolling the 9. With him having two money balls and him shitting in the 9 all the time it was all I could do to keep the losses low. After he won an ahead set with this weight I adjusted to the call 8 and was lucky enough to get the second set, after which he quit. I ofered him the 7 again if he would agree that we would both have to call any money ball shot and he refused...lol. Is this an unreasonable request?
 
Im by no means a "player", but I do have to give spots to most of the regulars where I play. It has been my experience that you have to give spots according to the style of play of the player you are playing. If Im playing someone that likes to "roll the cheese", then I would rather them have to call any money balls. Whereas if Im playing someone that tries to run out, I do not mind giving them a "wild" money ball. So, I do not think that your request was out of line.

Southpaw
 
zeeder said:
Do any of you ever stipulate that all money balls must be called when you're playing someone who constantly lucks/rolls the money balls?

I was playing a guy tonight and giving him the called 7, which I should be able to be fairly competitive with, but he kept lucking in and rolling the 9. With him having two money balls and him shitting in the 9 all the time it was all I could do to keep the losses low. After he won an ahead set with this weight I adjusted to the call 8 and was lucky enough to get the second set, after which he quit. I ofered him the 7 again if he would agree that we would both have to call any money ball shot and he refused...lol. Is this an unreasonable request?
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Key to giving up any money balls whatsoever is this:

They should never have a shot at their money ball. Ever.

Hence, you either have to be able to run all the way out when you get a shot, or should be able to run 4 or 5 balls and play a dead nut safe, where he is kicking. If you are relying on your opponent to run 4 or 5 balls and miss, leaving you an easy shot, then you have no business giving up the 7.

If you are getting shots and turning the table back over to him with a runnable table, or even a makeable combo on the 7 or 9, then you are not doing your job.

Great players make it look real easy to give up weight, but that's because they can either run all the way out or will leave you safe every time they leave the table.

Strive to control the entire set. If you are not stroking well, then play safe more often. Do not take shots you are not sure of making. Give them a hard, table length shot every time they come to the table. This will break their stroke down. This is what you want.

I've had a few people fairly close to my speed actually break down and refuse to play me without a sizeable shot because I clawed my way through a set refusing to give them a makeable shot. It takes a LOT of mental energy to find a way to win in every situation.

Buddy Hall has it right with his famous saying, "How do I win from here?"

It sounds simple, but it's not.

Good luck, and remember.. Giving up weight successfully is much more about attitude than it is about stroke. When giving up weight, you have to think EVERY TIME you come to the table.. "How do I either win from here, or prevent him from winning here?"

Russ
 
Russ Chewning said:
Good luck, and remember.. Giving up weight successfully is much more about attitude than it is about stroke. When giving up weight, you have to think EVERY TIME you come to the table.. "How do I either win from here, or prevent him from winning here?"

Russ
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Thanks Russ. I don't think I have any business giving anyone weight, especially the way I am shooting right now...lol. That being said, thank you very much for the advise!
 
?????????????

The way to figure weight. First you must determine who is the better player you or your opponent. If you can't clock a players speed you're always going to matchup bad. If you walk in off the street an watch two guys play 7or 8 games you should probably be able to pick the winner better than 80% of them time. If you can't do that how are you going to match up.
 
Pinocchio said:
The way to figure weight. First you must determine who is the better player you or your opponent. If you can't clock a players speed you're always going to matchup bad. If you walk in off the street an watch two guys play 7or 8 games you should probably be able to pick the winner better than 80% of them time. If you can't do that how are you going to match up.
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That's not the issue here. I've known/played this person for years and I am, or have been, the better player the whole time. That being said, I've not been able to play much here as of late and my game is pretty bad.
 
Zeeder,

Along time ago I stopped giving up wild balls, because in my area, once you give up a wild ball, the game becomes all about banging balls around to try to luck in the wild balls.

So now I only give up games on the wire. Why? because it takes out the chance of lucking in the early wild ball. And it rewards the guy who can finish the game.

I've gone so far as to give up 4 on the wire and all the breaks and still beat the guy 9-6.

The plus side of it is, that i get alot less offers of bangers who want to gamble yet, they want me to give up the world in weight.

But! on the flip side, I also know who i can give up a wild ball too, without getting bent over lol.

I had one girl, who was a regular 5$ a game gambler, BUT! I also had to give up the last 4. Plus I also played alot smarter against her expecially when I was running out.

later dave
 
zeeder said:
I've known/played this person for years and I am, or have been, the better player the whole time. That being said, I've not been able to play much here as of late and my game is pretty bad.
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THAT is the real issue. You have been better in the past, BUT, he may be practicing and at top speed for Him, and you may be at a low point making you guys play even. Now, he remembers you playing better, so won't want to play even, and saying "I am playing awful right now" most likely won't get you any weight back:D So, if it were me, I'd tell him he's playing well, get some nads, step up, and play you even! Just remember, even though your struggling, you still have the upper hand mentally because you have always given him weight, he will still think you are better....use the advantage!

Gerry
 
Matching up with ball spots, if you want to keep it friendly or competative is a bad way to go. You would be better off giving him games in a set. If hes about 7 games to your 10 kind of player, offer him 2 games in a race to 10 (you still have the edge). If he squawks (or hes a good friend), give him 3 on the wire and you are playing him pretty much even. This can be adjusted accordingly.
Spotting balls, you run into the situations you are now...... and its a headache to haggle that many stipulations before playing.
The only time I go for ball spots, is when I feel I can make it a lock..... and I dont particuarly care for the guy Im playing. Ive gotten weight from guys I should have given the 6 ball out to..... Its all in how you want to risk your cash. If you like to gamble for the gamble..... give him the wild 7 and keep letting him ride the 9. Statistically he will lose in the longrun...... but it can seem pretty damn brutal while its happening. :D
Chuck
 
RiverCity said:
Matching up with ball spots, if you want to keep it friendly or competative is a bad way to go. You would be better off giving him games in a set. If hes about 7 games to your 10 kind of player, offer him 2 games in a race to 10 (you still have the edge). If he squawks (or hes a good friend), give him 3 on the wire and you are playing him pretty much even. This can be adjusted accordingly.
Spotting balls, you run into the situations you are now...... and its a headache to haggle that many stipulations before playing.
The only time I go for ball spots, is when I feel I can make it a lock..... and I dont particuarly care for the guy Im playing. Ive gotten weight from guys I should have given the 6 ball out to..... Its all in how you want to risk your cash. If you like to gamble for the gamble..... give him the wild 7 and keep letting him ride the 9. Statistically he will lose in the longrun...... but it can seem pretty damn brutal while its happening. :D
Chuck
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This is just a personal preference thing, but I actually much prefer giving up balls over games simply because I know that if I play well I can neutralize a ball spot a lot of the time. Just think about how many times the ball being spotted ends up having no impact whatsoever on the game's final outcome (ie: if you make it, or if it drops on a foul, or if it's a called ball and it drops without being called, etc.). When you're spotting games, though, there's no getting around it, your opponent's advantage is automatic. Plus, if you're close in speed, then you've got to play some pretty long races to make it fair, and that means more of your winnings are going to go toward table time. Again, I think it comes down to preference, but I've personally had much better results when giving up balls.
 
Spots

Spots have been done to death!!! It's simple, you spot what is a fair game, but one you think you can win. If after you agree on a spot, you don't know if you can win, then you are not too smart. I don't know about you, BUT I DO NOT ADJUST AFTER EACH SET, and will only adjust when I am signicantly up on the money, and ONLY TO A SPOT that I feel I can still win, otherwise, why do it? I am sure not going to throw my money away on a bad game... that's kind of stupid.

After all, I do not have anything to prove, the lower level players are the ones trying to prove something.

Lower level players, all the time, will play you with one spot, go away for 6-10 months, come back playing a ball better and try to get the same spot, or like you said, you were'nt playing your average speed.

Any player, no matter what level, will try to get the best of you, it just depends on whether you will let them or not. Smart gamblers don't.

How many Texas Holdem players do you know that would spot an Ace and Queen to a player on every hand? Ask them .... ROFL

BTW, I forgot to post that CHUCK RAULSTON, Popular Bluff, Mo., won the big Shooters Thanksgiving tournament here in Wichita, with Justin Bergman coming in 2nd. It paid $2,000 for 1st with $2,105 for 1st in the Calcutta. They both play real strong.
 
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zeeder said:
Do any of you ever stipulate that all money balls must be called when you're playing someone who constantly lucks/rolls the money balls?

I was playing a guy tonight and giving him the called 7, which I should be able to be fairly competitive with, but he kept lucking in and rolling the 9. With him having two money balls and him shitting in the 9 all the time it was all I could do to keep the losses low. After he won an ahead set with this weight I adjusted to the call 8 and was lucky enough to get the second set, after which he quit. I ofered him the 7 again if he would agree that we would both have to call any money ball shot and he refused...lol. Is this an unreasonable request?
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Next time tell him he has it wild only when he breaks. That may have struck his intrest to play another set in which you should have the upper hand if you don't lose a game. Hope that helps.;)
 
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