Matchroom Improvement list

[skogstokig]

I have been playing pool for about 5 years and use traditional color balls. I am color blind and I get mixed up with the blue 2 (especially if it’s the darker blue) and purple 4 a lot, and sometimes between the red 3 and brown 7.
I never played with the MR set, but viewing on TV, I have problems distinguishing the pink 4 from the green 6 and to a lesser extent the red 3 from brown 7. That's why I like the ball runner that shows which balls are still in play, it helps a lot.

Maybe they need a target audience of color blind people to figure what's the best colors for regular play and TV audience because some colors might show up different on TV.

good perspective.

now think about people that are totally new to the game and have no clue which ball is next. it's for these potential new fans the comms refer to "the green 6-ball" etc, which may help a little bit. then they have that ball runner. is it big enough, clear enough?

because i've tried to introduce people to watching 9-ball, and i don't think it's super intuitive. to them it's just a bunch of skittles and "not 8-ball". maybe the next ball in order should pulse in the graphic. idk.

 

[jbart65]

I understand the points you have made and recognize that they are based on actual Matchroom/Frazer comments, but actions speak louder than words and I'm not able to easily reconcile Matchroom's stated goals with their actions.

No business plan, to rephrase an old saying about war, survives first contact with reality. Add in volatile human emotions, and actions sometimes drift far from stated goals.

Frazer is impatient for success. She wants the WNT to take off like darts did. In rare moments of pubic doubt, she's worries about whether the tour can succeed. "Am I and Barry the only ones who genuinely believe this can work?" she mused in an hour-long interview last week with "The Room Where it Happens."

Frazer and WNT initially tried to build up the current stars - Filler, Ouschan, SVB and so forth. Next they created the tour and signed up almost all of the top 128 players in the world to be part of it. Momentum seemed to be on WNT's side in 2023 and 2024, particularly after the clumsy WPA attempt to ban players.

Then Filler was removed from the Mosconi in 2024. That's when the tide began to shift.

***

Some players playing in the Mosconi were upset with Filler and didn't want him to play. WNT and Frazer also probably felt very let down. They invested a lot of time in money in Filler. They created a Filler junior open to precede the European Open, with the goal of making it a longstanding event. Pia Filler was also invited to be the first woman on the WNT tour.

Yet other players saw the WNT move as punishment, particularly Predator sponsored ones. Alban Ouschan was among those who spoke out.

Predator is the arguably the most influential company in pool. They sponsor more stars than anyone. MR could hardly expect that Predator players were going to go against the WPA or skip Predator sponsored events that clashed with WNT ones. We have seen even more erosion in WNT support from Predator players. The Kaci brothers skipped Hanoi and the Philippines for 8 ball.

One of MR's biggest mistakes was failing to manage its relationship with Predator. The falling out gave the WPA a big ally in its fight vs Matchroom. And for whatever reason, Predator has stepped up its own pro billiards tour. Maybe out of jealousy, or irritation, or the feeling that Matchroom threatened its position in pool.

Whatever the case, Predator is not going away. MR has to figure out how to repair the relationship to some degree, if not with the company itself then with its players.

***

Still, it's become pretty clear MR won't do much to promote Predator players or players who aren't seen as very "loyal" to the WNT. I can understand wanting to reward loyalty, but it's a mistake. Fans want to see the best players play, period.

Instead, MR appears to be focusing on the up and coming generations who grew up in the age of social media. It's done this by sponsoring more junior opens and touting young players online.

New MR Youtube shorts, for example, have played up 16-year-old Jaybee Sucal of the Philippines. Fedor Gorst and David Alcaide even did video shorts with him.

This is the world Frazer wants to create, but even very young players are keeping their options open.

Both Felix Vogel and Albert Januarta have won WNT junior opens, but they have also skipped big WNT events in favor of Predator ones. Maybe they are angling for company sponsorship.

***

In the meantime, Frazer has to manage the here and now. The selections for the Mosconi will be telling. If Matchroom omits both Filler and SVB, they will have a big problem on their hands.

Filler has kept his distance from WNT, but I don't see how the WNT can downplay Filler for the next 20 years. Bringing him back to the Mosconi - if he would in fact accept - would help to start to mend the wound.

SVB, for his part, has been a stalwart WNT supporter until recently. Frazer has cultivated him extensively. Yet in skipping Hanoi and the Philippines, SVB has put MR in a spot. If they punish him, it will not go over well with a lot of players.

The next year, I sense, could be a very critical one for pro pool.

 

[VVP]

Predator used to be a major sponsor of Matchroom events until they had a major falling out, which I believe was over scheduling conflicts. So it's not like there were always conflicts between Predator and Matchroom.

Matchroom thought it was on top of the world and it could promote 9 ball as the only billiards game ... it's commentators shamelessly don't mention/count 10 ball or 8 ball championships.

No sure who is the brain at Matchroom who thinks that you can show favoritism and still command respect of the entire pool fan base. It doesn't work that way. They need to make changes to their business tactics.

 

[skogstokig]

Predator used to be a major sponsor of Matchroom events until they had a major falling out, which I believe was over scheduling conflicts. So it's not like there were always conflicts between Predator and Matchroom.

Matchroom thought it was on top of the world and it could promote 9 ball as the only billiards game ... it's commentators shamelessly don't mention/count 10 ball or 8 ball championships.

No sure who is the brain at Matchroom who thinks that you can show favoritism and still command respect of the entire pool fan base. It doesn't work that way. They need to make changes to their business tactics.

yes, they had the predator champions league (PLP predecessor). but predator wanted cuetec and mezz sponsored players to cover their patches or something like that. iirc shane didn't play because of that

 

[VVP]

yes, they had the predator champions league (PLP predecessor). but predator wanted cuetec and mezz sponsored players to cover their patches or something like that. iirc shane didn't play because of that

Not true, covering the patch was rumor. Predator CEO Karim Belhaj was on Window's Open and directly stated that they were allowed to show their patches.

I believe there were times they were required to cover wnt patches, but I can't remember the details for those. Maybe WPA sanctioned events?

 

[mikepage]

[...] Its [Predator's] goal is to make playing pool more popular so more people will buy its products.

[Matchroom's] goal is to create the first, true professional billiards tour in history. Matchroom wants to grow the sport, reach a mass market and make money.

I thought your analysis was sharp and well informed, but it feels like there’s a tilt in how Predator and Matchroom are framed, like one wants to grow the sport to make money, and the other wants to grow the sport and make money. One's motives are purely instrumental, sponsor events events to sell more stuff--and the other's motives are visionary--building a true tour for the good of the sport.

I don't know Karim well, but I've spoken to him enough that I'm convinced he sees professional pool as part of his/Predator's legacy.
Sure, it’s a business that needs to make money and he's a savvy business person. But I believe Predator’s utility function includes more than profit. Legacy, reputation, and the health of the sport have some weight, imo.

 

[jbart65]

I thought your analysis was sharp and well informed, but it feels like there’s a tilt in how Predator and Matchroom are framed, like one wants to grow the sport to make money, and the other wants to grow the sport and make money. One's motives are purely instrumental, sponsor events events to sell more stuff--and the other's motives are visionary--building a true tour for the good of the sport.

Thanks, Mike. I actually thought I was neutral on Predator, but I can see why you might not be convinced.

I see Predator's business model as fairly simple and quite sound. That said, growing the sport to make money, as you put it, still involves growing the sport. From that standpoint, Predator is every bit as "visionary" as Matchroom. The people at Predator love pool, too.

Personally, I do not consider "visionary" a suitable word for either company. They are businesses with different models. That's all.

Nor do I think Matchroom is trying to build a true tour mainly for the good of the sport. The company saw a vacuum in pro pool it could fill and a chance to develop an underserved market at a potentially tidy profit.

The aim of Predator seems less ambitious to me, for now, but one could argue the company is in the early stages of creating its own unique set of pro pool tournaments that it hopes become annual events.

I will make one carveout for Frazer and another for Barry Hearn.

Frazer seems to have internalized the WNT tour so it's synonymous with her. It's her "baby," as she said in a recent interview, describing why she doesn't have much of a personal life.

In a sense, she's become a missionary of sorts for the WNT. A good thing? Time will tell, but better someone who truly believes in the impossible than someone who always sees limits.

Hearn, for his part, seems to genuinely love pool more than any of his other sports. Given what I know now, I frankly think it was crazy for Hearn and Matchroom to try to develop a pro pool tour. I would have sold the rights for the WPC, Mosconi and US Open and moved on.

In for a penny, in for a pound now. I hope MR succeeds.

I don't know Karim well, but I've spoken to him enough that I'm convinced he sees professional pool as part of his/Predator's legacy.
Sure, it’s a business that needs to make money and he's a savvy business person. But I believe Predator’s utility function includes more than profit. Legacy, reputation, and the health of the sport have some weight, imo.

Agreed.

 

[sjm]

Thanks, Mike. I actually thought I was neutral on Predator, but I can see why you might not be convinced.

I see Predator's business model as fairly simple and quite sound. That said, growing the sport to make money, as you put it, still involves growing the sport. From that standpoint, Predator is every bit as "visionary" as Matchroom. The people at Predator love pool, too.

Personally, I do not consider "visionary" a suitable word for either company. They are businesses with different models. That's all.

Nor do I think Matchroom is trying to build a true tour mainly for the good of the sport. The company saw a vacuum in pro pool it could fill and a chance to develop an underserved market at a potentially tidy profit.

The aim of Predator seems less ambitious to me, for now, but one could argue the company is in the early stages of creating its own unique set of pro pool tournaments that it hopes become annual events.

I will make one carveout for Frazer and another for Barry Hearn.

Frazer seems to have internalized the WNT tour so it's synonymous with her. It's her "baby," as she said in a recent interview, describing why she doesn't have much of a personal life.

In a sense, she's become a missionary of sorts for the WNT. A good thing? Time will tell, but better someone who truly believes in the impossible than someone who always sees limits.

Hearn, for his part, seems to genuinely love pool more than any of his other sports. Given what I know now, I frankly think it was crazy for Hearn and Matchroom to try to develop a pro pool tour. I would have sold the rights for the WPC, Mosconi and US Open and moved on.

In for a penny, in for a pound now. I hope MR succeeds.


Agreed.

Nice post. I think the biggest difference between Matchroom and Predator is that Matchroom is chiefly an event producer looking to maximize the profits that emanate from those events and Predator is chiefly a sponsor using sponsorships to keep its products highly visible.

Beyond sponsoring numerous pro events and players, not all of whom are pro, some of Predator's focus is to network with amateur events to feature and sell its many excellent products. For example, this past February during the BCA National championships, there were thousands, maybe even over ten thousand, amateurs on hand. Each amateur could watch the pro events for free and watch top pros playing breathtaking pool with Predator equipment up close. Predator has been brilliant in leveraging its relationships with amateur pool to keep its products in the limelight.

Both Matchroom and Predator have superior management teams, but they go about their business very differently.

On an intellectual level, it seems possible that Matchroom and Predator could be allies in the growth of pro pool, but right now it is hard to imagine.

 

[VVP]

It would be good to know exactly what caused the Matchroom Predator split. It is in Predator's interest to see Matchroom and every other event producers succeed and have its sponsored players participate in the events because it is free commercial.

I always think of Predator events as a highly successful commercial. It gets viewership for hours and an opportunity to compensate its players because Predator events are heavily attended by its sponsored players.

Edit: I did a Google search and AI blamed it on the WPA because Predator sided with the WPA after the Matchroom/WPA fiasco.

I seem to remember that the split was because Matchroom wanted to concentrate on 9 ball whereas Predator wanted to promote 10 ball and 8 ball also. I don't think any official reason for the split was made public though.

 

[sjm]

It would be good to know exactly what caused the Matchroom Predator split. It is in Predator's interest to see Matchroom and every other event producers succeed and have its sponsored players participate in the events because it is free commercial.

I always think of Predator events as a highly successful commercial. It gets viewership for hours and an opportunity to compensate its players because Predator events are heavily attended by its sponsored players.

I'm probably going to get this wrong, but hopefully a poster with a better memory than me will chime in and, if necessary, correct me.

A few years ago, Matchroom (as event producer) and Predator (as title sponsor) teamed up to stage the Premier League Pool event. As I remember it, there was controversy over player patches. I believe that each player was required to wear a patch with Predator's logo on it, even if Predator was a competitor of that player's sponsor. Some players took loud exception, refusing to wear a Predator patch.

While this may have only been act one in the story of why Matchroom and Predator went their separate ways, never staging another event together, this controversy stills resonates with me.

Once again, I'm hoping somebody who remembers this incident more clearly will help out here.

 

[VVP]

I'm probably going to get this wrong, but hopefully a poster with a better memory than me will chime in and, if necessary, correct me.

A few years ago, Matchroom (as event producer) and Predator (as title sponsor) teamed up to stage the Premier League Pool event. As I remember it, there was controversy over player patches. I believe that each player was required to wear a patch with Predator's logo on it, even if Predator was a competitor of that player's sponsor. Some players took loud exception, refusing to wear a Predator patch.

While this may have only been act one in the story of why Matchroom and Predator went their separate ways, never staging another event together, this controversy stills resonates with me.

Once again, I'm hoping somebody who remembers this incident more clearly will help out here.

Yes, I remember something like that Predator wanting players to wear a PLP patch with the Predator logo on it. That made no sense for other sponsored players.

 

[jbart65]

Well, Matchroom has a decision to make. Joshua Filler says he has earned automatic qualification to the Mosconi Cup. Evidently he's been following his competition at the Reyes. He cheekily posted about it on his FB page. Too funny.

KillerFillers

MOSCONI CUP - MATHEMATICALLY I AM QUALIFIED As both Souto and FSR just exited the Philippines Open 🇵🇭 nobody in the official Matchroom Rankings can pass me to automatically qualify anymore! 🤩...

www.facebook.com

SVB has qualified for an automatic spot, too.

I think it would be a huge mistake for Matchroom to keep both players out.

MR has a points system. It's public. The supposed nonparticipation rule is no where to be found in public. Does transparency win out? Or bylaws that only exist in the shadows?

 

[garczar]

Well, Matchroom has a decision to make. Joshua Filler says he has earned automatic qualification to the Mosconi Cup. Evidently he's been following his competition at the Reyes. He cheekily posted about it on his FB page. Too funny.

KillerFillers

MOSCONI CUP - MATHEMATICALLY I AM QUALIFIED As both Souto and FSR just exited the Philippines Open 🇵🇭 nobody in the official Matchroom Rankings can pass me to automatically qualify anymore! 🤩...

www.facebook.com

SVB has qualified for an automatic spot, too.

I think it would be a huge mistake for Matchroom to keep both players out.

MR has a points system. It's public. The supposed nonparticipation rule is no where to be found in public. Does transparency win out? Or bylaws that only exist in the shadows?

Based on the sheer number and length of your posts on this subject i just gotta ask why and what is your dreamed-for outcome? You seem 10000% bought in on this deal. Have you run ANY of this by MR/Pred/WPA? If you don't run your ideas/dreams by the actual decision makers all this really means nada. Basically amounts to 'fantasy pool league' imo which is fine i guess if that's your deal.

 

[skogstokig]

Well, Matchroom has a decision to make. Joshua Filler says he has earned automatic qualification to the Mosconi Cup. Evidently he's been following his competition at the Reyes. He cheekily posted about it on his FB page. Too funny.

KillerFillers

MOSCONI CUP - MATHEMATICALLY I AM QUALIFIED As both Souto and FSR just exited the Philippines Open 🇵🇭 nobody in the official Matchroom Rankings can pass me to automatically qualify anymore! 🤩...

www.facebook.com

SVB has qualified for an automatic spot, too.

I think it would be a huge mistake for Matchroom to keep both players out.

MR has a points system. It's public. The supposed nonparticipation rule is no where to be found in public. Does transparency win out? Or bylaws that only exist in the shadows?

of course he should be in. the alternative is having three rookies. they could probably make that the reason, coming to think of it. the year of the rookies

euro players have been poor this year compared to recent years, but josh has won a major. and he trounced the competition, won 13-1.

 

[sjm]

In Filler, Gorst and SVB, we may well have three of the ten best pool players of all time.

Having all three of them at the Mosconi would remind the world that they remain WNT superstars. Of course, it will be either one of them or three of them, as Filler and SVB are in exactly the same situation. To include one of them and not the other would be to persecute the omitted player.

This matters more for Team USA, as Team USA has few, if any, in-form players to replace SVB. It is a bit different with Filler, as Labutis is absolutely on fire with a win at the Hanoi Open and already into the last sixteen at the Philippines Open. Pijus is just tearing it up.

With Filler, SVB and Labutis on the sidelines, Team ROW was whitewashed mercilessly at the Reyes Cup. Fans want to see the best players. I am praying that is what they will get at the Mosconi.

 

[Vahmurka]

Another thing to add to the list is MR's approach to the break shot. "Forceful enough" to refree's discretion is ridiculous. Set any measurable method to control this.
The easiest being an app at every table at preliminary stages and a radar gun for the latest (one table set-up). As long there are many critics of the '3-point rule'.

 

[spartan]

of course he should be in. the alternative is having three rookies. they could probably make that the reason, coming to think of it. the year of the rookies

euro players have been poor this year compared to recent years, but josh has won a major. and he trounced the competition, won 13-1.

MR can tweak goalpost again like what they did with Reyes Cup. Last year 3 top ranked +2 wildcards change to 2 top ranked +3 wildcards this year.

Another thing to add to the list is MR's approach to the break shot. "Forceful enough" to refree's discretion is ridiculous. Set any measurable method to control this.
The easiest being an app at every table at preliminary stages and a radar gun for the latest (one table set-up). As long there are many critics of the '3-point rule'.

Ops management failure that they introduce such "subjective" rule without method to objectively to test and enforce it.
MR already have snafus with their shot clock, adding more electronic tech stuff like app radar gun will lead to more cockups.