Matchrooms Concern

[Island Drive]

"Out there'' Maha.... feels like it did in the 80-'s and 90's.
Also, there are allot more Good players, hotels aren't cheap, foods more expensive, similar feel of being broke and makin' ends meet.
And the Midwest in mostly league play.

 

[skor]

years back many players hung in the poolroom everyday all day and played and gambled. now you go in and no body stays long or plays hard or gambles. so no reason to get good and over that hump of a top player in your area.

to get a big pool of players so a few become top ones takes a large field of wanna bees that isnt part of the american culture.

they couldn't get good even if they wanted to as few if any good players live nearby to compete with.

you cant get good playing by your self or in leagues where you only play a small number of games with no competition.

no longer can you hit the road and win money and get experience against all sorts of players. which means no incentive.

if the money was big and tv covered it people would work hard to get there. but pool has a small mindset of trying to be affordable. and affordable means cheap. and cheap means little interest.

Sorry, but this is a bunch of poor excuses and a load of bull.
Times change, things change, conditions change; one needs to adapt.
Gone are the days of the hustler and the road player; it's not 1972 anymore. A hustler can NOT become a world champion in 2025 or play at that level.
Hitting a pool room and playing for money does not guarantee that you play the best players or that the player shows his top speed; the pressure and mentality are completely different than in competitions.

Jasmin Ouschan uploaded a video recently showing drills that her brother (Albin) and she did while being at the training camp.
You get that? two world champions going to training camp with a trainer. That's what pro athletes do: they train hard, they practice hard and they compete hard.
When was the last time an adult pro American pool player went on a training camp? Or had a coach working with him?

Your attitude and mentality are so 1980; we are in 2025.
The days of the hustler died with the color of money.
No wonder that pool is declining in the USA.

 

[JAM]

... Jasmin Ouschan uploaded a video recently showing drills that her brother (Albin) and she did while being at the training camp.
You get that? two world champions going to training camp with a trainer. That's what pro athletes do: they train hard, they practice hard and they compete hard.
When was the last time an adult pro American pool player went on a training camp? Or had a coach working with him?

I agree with much of what you wrote. I do recall, though, that American Tyler Styer trained with Johann Ruijsink several times before big events, and I could see how much it benefitted his caliber of play.

The bigger problem with American pool is that social shooters and league play is popular; thus, BCA industry members cater to this crowd. The Billiards Congress of America (BCA) is supposed to be the governing body of North American pool, but I do not recognize what they are doing to promote professional pool here in the States.

This is the reason I can count on two hands how many professional-caliber players exist in USA. And if one throws in the Mosconi Cup, by contrast to USA, there are 10 times more European professional-caliber players in Europe.

Interestingly, though, many European players come to USA to compete in our pool events like the recent Buffalo's Billiards, Super Billiards Expo, Derby City Classic, and Joss NE 9-Ball events at Turning Stone, and the odds of them cashing is great.

The existing lot of professional players in USA is continuing to dwindle, and professional pool as a sport in USA is circling the drain. League play and social shooting will stay relatively steady due to the bar-type pool rooms that host these events. Quite frankly, at least in my opinion, it's too damn expensive to travel the world on WNT tour, Predator Pro Billiard Series, and WPA events for most American aspiring pool players. It's cheaper and easier to complete here on American soil. Pool in USA is more of a game, not really a professional sport. In Europe and Asia, pool is a sport and continues to flourish and grow.

 

[maha]

yea in other countries players work hard for the fame and money in pool. but not in the u.s.a. they can get good with training and practice and against each other devoting their whole life to it..

but here there is little incentive to get good enough to become a great player so the pool of players that get good enough say 700 or so to advance to super pro status, is very small. and many already make more at other things then they can ever make playing in pool tournaments and having to travel.
i know 5 700 plus players that rarely play now and play cards or have a higher paying job.

and yes i am still in the decades past and have the experience of it to compare.

and there were hundreds and hundreds of players that could work a little and play top pro speed. maybe not filler speed but better or as good as the entries in the tournaments that are not dead money.

and if the ouschans were able to make hundreds of thousands playing poker or working in tech then you can bet your sweet a-- they would be doing that instead, and never got great.

gross working average wages in the u.s. are 30% higher than europe let alone asia. and the europeans pay much higher taxes on theirs so their purchasing power is way below the u.s. so pool winnings go alot farther there as it can bring them into middle class..

 

[skor]

yea in other countries players work hard for the fame and money in pool. but not in the u.s.a. they can get good with training and practice and against each other devoting their whole life to it..

but here there is little incentive to get good enough to become a great player so the pool of players that get good enough say 700 or so to advance to super pro status, is very small. and many already make more at other things then they can ever make playing in pool tournaments and having to travel.
i know 5 700 plus players that rarely play now and play cards or have a higher paying job.

and yes i am still in the decades past and have the experience of it to compare.

and there were hundreds and hundreds of players that could work a little and play top pro speed. maybe not filler speed but better or as good as the entries in the tournaments that are not dead money.

and if the ouschans were able to make hundreds of thousands playing poker or working in tech then you can bet your sweet a-- they would be doing that instead, and never got great.

gross working average wages in the u.s. are 30% higher than europe let alone asia. and the europeans pay much higher taxes on theirs so their purchasing power is way below the u.s. so pool winnings go alot farther there as it can bring them into middle class..

I do understand that it’s not worth it to play pool. I agree with it.
I don’t think that it was ever worth it.
Most people get into pool because they like playing it, not because there might be a big payday one day.
Some people are getting better at it then others. Some are getting really good, far better than most.
At this point a player faces two options:
1. Play great at an amateur level, maybe a money game here and there and get a good steady job.
2. Explore just how good one can get, how far can he take it.

It’s a big dilemma, especially when knowing that it’s a field that there is no money in it.
This dilemma is not unique to pool, there are many other hobbies that turning pro put this dilemma in play (I know that I was there in other field, pool was always an amateur thing for me so no dilemma there)

If someone chooses to go the second way, than I guess there are many routes to try, depending on where you live, the local culture, the ability to support yourself etc.

I’m not here to debate whether American players should choose one way or the other.
I’m simply explaining why those who do choose the second option fail to reach the highest levels.
It doesn’t matter if they can’t or won’t do what it takes, they have their reasons.
I believe that it’s a waste of time and energy and money to choose the second option and don’t do what needs to be done, might as well choose option one.

 

[maha]

basically we agree.

but way back a good player that wasn't a sucker when he got stuck could actually make more playing than he could working.

my story was, as i was getting through with college my mom asked what i wanted to be . like a banker, or something. i looked at her and said, mom, i make more than the president of the bank.

 

[lfigueroa]

IMO, the core problem is that it costs too much to sustain a room with at least eight nine foot tables.

With bar tables you can have leagues and tournaments and, frankly, the lower level player feels they can compete at something. When I came up the majority of the tables were 9fts and it was easy and affordable to play and improve. Now, well, you have FR and you really don't need to aspire to improve. You can stay a bottom feeder, get your handicap, and play. No need to improve.

Sad days, IMO.

Lou Figueroa

 

[maha]

all the best you can do in a pool room is squeeze out a meager living.
to make it you have to be a good businessman and have great food, good drinks or beers, and some kind of good income from machines.

the days of just putting a sign out "billiards" and having a dozen tables is long gone. even for those that own the building.

 

[Island Drive]

all the best you can do in a pool room is squeeze out a meager living.
to make it you have to be a good businessman and have great food, good drinks or beers, and some kind of good income from machines.

the days of just putting a sign out "billiards" and having a dozen tables is long gone. even for those that own the building.

Not true.... in Colorado Springs.