measuring the balance point

[hadjcues]

Any other way to balance a cue than stickin' a weight bolt at the end? This mainly concerns balance and not a weight issue...

Thanks,

hadj

 

[Rackin_Zack]

Any other way to balance a cue than stickin' a weight bolt at the end? This mainly concerns balance and not a weight issue...

Thanks,

hadj

I would think the proper wood choices would go a long way!

 

[JoeyInCali]

Any other way to balance a cue than stickin' a weight bolt at the end? This mainly concerns balance and not a weight issue...

Thanks,

hadj

A ton of ways. Use a light/heavy handle, steel or titanium pin, taper, powdered steel mixed with epoxy, etc.

 

[hadjcues]

A ton of ways. Use a light/heavy handle, steel or titanium pin, taper, powdered steel mixed with epoxy, etc.

dude, doesn't get complicated as this
Thanks

 

[JoeyInCali]

dude, doesn't get complicated as this
Thanks

It can. A friend of mine ordered an ebony cue with SS collar from one huge maker and wanted it at 19 oz. or less. He got it at 19 oz.
He works as an x-ray tech for a defense contractor. He x-rayed the cue.
The maker drilled out the bottom about 6 inches look and 3/4 wide.

 

[Sheldon]

=Tiffpoolbum
Finally, some players hold the cue close to the middle of the wrap, others hold it all the way to the very end. What are the differences in their requirments for a cue with the best balance? Is 19" from the butt the best no matter where the player holds the cue? If not, what is the realtionship between the two? Or is there perhaps a better parameter to use in determinating the balance of a cue?

Most people specify a balance point "because they can". I have yet to have someone give me an explanation of WHY they want it where they want it. As your post points out, balance is but one of MANY factors that make up a cue's character.

 

[justabrake]

steve if you know what you like, just ask whoever your talking to to measure from the but and you'll be ok.

just remember too take in account the total length.
l

http://www.cornerstonecustomcues.com/main.htm

about 2 1/8 in infront of the wrap
Steven Randolph <s_randolph56@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi-William, I was looking at the bushman cue at the expo and on your site
and was wondering what the balance point of the cue is , is it possible to
measure from the buttend to the balance point for me I'd appreciate it.


Thanks-Steven

 

[drivermaker]

cues are not all the same length and measuring from the business end makes a lot more sense. I don't expect the practice to change, but I will keep giving my $.02 whenever the subject arises.

Tracy

Damn cuemakers and Doctors...why in the hell do these know-it-all Doctors have to give the systolic reading first before the diastolic. Just never made sense...that needs to change also.

 

[Koop]

Doctors have to give the systolic reading first before the diastolic. QUOTE]

On my way to Dictionary.com
Damn you DM, making my brain hurt this early in the morning...

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

You dismiss the fact that most people have the ability to calculate. If you are getting details like balance points, I would assume you would already have the lengths, and be able to figure where the balance point is, whether measured from the tip or the butt.
Measuring from the wrap is whacked, and should probably not be used. What if the cue is wrapless?

Measure where the wrap is supposed to be (just kidding).

I agree with you Sheldon: I always refer to the balance point as measured from the big end of the cue's butt. I think most cuemakers do the same because it is necessary to have a common starting place.

Just my .01 cents worth.

 

[drivermaker]

On the other hand, if I have two cues, 18.5oz, and 19oz, but one has a 4.7 oz shaft, and one has a 4.2 oz shaft. What exactly does the number "19" from the butt" tells me? Can it be used as an indication of a good/bad balance?

In addition, and this is the part that confuses me the most, a 19.5 oz cue with a 19"-from-the-butt balance point will be more butt heavy than a 17.5 oz cue with the same balance point; therefore, even if the balance point is useful in the determination of the balance, shouldn't it be expressed as a ratio to the weight?

Tiff baby...you REALLY had your thinking cap on when you wrote this post. You made a lot of excellent points and I'll address the ones that are left above and the remainder of your post can be discussed by the cuemakers and experts of wood density.

I'll give you examples of what you mentioned. I have a Meucci MTC-3 with a metal joint collar (nickel) that I currently have the butt weighing out at 15.10 oz. The weight bolt is removable and I have a number of different ones that are lighter or heavier for it, but currently that's what it is. I also have 7 shafts for it, black dots and red dots that weigh from the lightest of 3.65 oz. up to 4.75 oz. If I put the 3.65 oz. shaft on, the cue weighs 18.75 oz. and has a balance point of 19 1/8" from the end of the butt cap.

With a 4.25 oz. shaft the cue weighs 19.35 oz. and the balance point is
19 5/8". And with the 4.75 oz. shaft the cue weighs 19.85 oz. and has a balance point of 20 1/4", which is over an inch further from the lightest to almost 3/4" more from the 4.25 oz shaft.

So...does this cue feel and play differently with all of the different shafts on?
HELL YES!! Change the shaft and it's like having 7 different cues! Change the weight bolt and rotate all the shafts and it's now like having 14 more different cues!!

You are 100% correct in your statement which is "even if the balance point is useful in the determination of the balance, shouldn't it be expressed as a ratio to the weight". And I'd like to take it one step further and say that it should be expressed along with the weight of the two different halves of the cue...SHAFT & BUTT, because as can be seen from my examples that it makes one helluva difference.

I might also add, that the type of joint pin and collar will also give you a good indication of where the balance point might be without even measuring and they also play a MAJOR role in weight, balance, feel, and hit.

 

[merylane]

http://www.cornerstonecustomcues.com/main.htm

about 2 1/8 in infront of the wrap
Steven Randolph <s_randolph56@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi-William, I was looking at the bushman cue at the expo and on your site
and was wondering what the balance point of the cue is , is it possible to
measure from the buttend to the balance point for me I'd appreciate it.


Thanks-Steven

what a bushman cue? i tried to find it on that site but no luck

 

[merylane]

Since all wood has different density, different resonance...etc. Is the balance point expressed in terms of a length from the bumper really meaningful in terms of determining if a cue hits well?

Let me try to express myself a bit clearer here.

If I have two cues--one with an ebony forearm and one with a maple forearm, both built by the same guy with exact spec--will they feel the same if the balance points are both 19" from the butt.

On the other hand, if I have two cues, 18.5oz, and 19oz, but one has a 4.7 oz shaft, and one has a 4.2 oz shaft. What exactly does the number "19" from the butt" tells me? Can it be used as an indication of a good/bad balance?

Futhermore, if I have two cues both built with an ebony forearm--one piece of ebony is a bit denser than the one used on the other. So, these two cues will not have the same weight even thought they might look exactly the same. But is it to say that they cannot both be well balanced?

In addition, and this is the part that confuses me the most, a 19.5 oz cue with a 19"-from-the-butt balance point will be more butt heavy than a 17.5 oz cue with the same balance point; therefore, even if the balance point is useful in the determination of the balance, shouldn't it be expressed as a ratio to the weight?

Finally, some players hold the cue close to the middle of the wrap, others hold it all the way to the very end. What are the differences in their requirments for a cue with the best balance? Is 19" from the butt the best no matter where the player holds the cue? If not, what is the realtionship between the two? Or is there perhaps a better parameter to use in determinating the balance of a cue?

you have to take in account that the numbers will only have a meaning if you know what you like, no matter how you twist them.

you should know the weight, length, and balance you like and if a cue has those specs chances are you will like the feel , and the onlything left is the stiffness, and youll like the play.

so if you know what you like you can have a cue maker hit your specs and youll be happy.

unfortunatley most people only know the weight and tip size, many dont even know the tip hardness they prefer.

 

[Tiffpoolbum]

you have to take in account that the numbers will only have a meaning if you know what you like, no matter how you twist them.

you should know the weight, length, and balance you like and if a cue has those specs chances are you will like the feel , and the onlything left is the stiffness, and youll like the play.

so if you know what you like you can have a cue maker hit your specs and youll be happy.

unfortunatley most people only know the weight and tip size, many dont even know the tip hardness they prefer.

My question is, "Does this number really have a meaning even if I know what I like?"

In other words, I know what will feel right in my hand--but can I get that feel if I specify it in terms of the balance point?

If I have three cues with the same balance points and taper made by three different cue makers, will they hit the same? I tend to think not.

I agree with Sheldon that there are so much more to a cue than a number showing where the balance point is. As a matter of fact, I will go out on the limb to say that this number is pretty much meaningless in determining whether the cue will hit the way I prefer. I do not even believe in the weight itself.

My opinion is this: a well balance cue will feel lighter and a poorly balanced cue will feel heavier; therefore, if I specify I want my cue at 19 oz with a 18.5 balance point, will I get the prefecft hit I desire when the cue is completed? Not necessarily...why? because the balance, in my opinion, cannot be specified in terms of these numbers.

Like Drivermaker stated, the weight of the shaft will make a hugh difference, and so will the weight bolt.

Let's not forget the weight distribution along the cue, i.e. will there be any spike on the weight distribution graph? If a weight bolt is inserted in the forearm, its weight distribution will not be the same as a cue naturally balance, but they may have the same weight and the same balance point--just like two sets of number can have the same mean but different mode--that certainly does not mean that these two cues will feel the same.

What do you guys think?

 

[merylane]

My question is, "Does this number really have a meaning even if I know what I like?"

In other words, I know what will feel right in my hand--but can I get that feel if I specify it in terms of the balance point?

If I have three cues with the same balance points and taper made by three different cue makers, will they hit the same? I tend to think not.

I agree with Sheldon that there are so much more to a cue than a number showing where the balance point is. As a matter of fact, I will go out on the limb to say that this number is pretty much meaningless in determining whether the cue will hit the way I prefer. I do not even believe in the weight itself.

My opinion is this: a well balance cue will feel lighter and a poorly balanced cue will feel heavier; therefore, if I specify I want my cue at 19 oz with a 18.5 balance point, will I get the prefecft hit I desire when the cue is completed? Not necessarily...why? because the balance, in my opinion, cannot be specified in terms of these numbers.

Like Drivermaker stated, the weight of the shaft will make a hugh difference, and so will the weight bolt.

Let's not forget the weight distribution along the cue, i.e. will there be any spike on the weight distribution graph? If a weight bolt is inserted in the forearm, its weight distribution will not be the same as a cue naturally balance, but they may have the same weight and the same balance point--just like two sets of number can have the same mean but different mode--that certainly does not mean that these two cues will feel the same.

What do you guys think?

i think your over complicating it, which of course can be done with anything, you make it sound like any numbers would be meaningless to you.

wouldnt the shafts be part of the balance? shouldnt the shfats weigh the same? so take that out of the ?

it sounds like your a little wishywashy on your specs.

but one thing for sure if you like a front heavy cue, you would never like a but heavy cue even if everything else was just to your liking, of course there are always those who can care less and play with anything.

and if you want to get deeper think of this i prefer my cue to be balanced at 33.5% of the total lenghth measured from the but, and these specs work for any length just right for me, considering the stiffness and shaft size.

and i dont think its coincidence that all the cues i have really loved the feel and hit( which you have to combine cause you may like one and not the other) together have been close or right there.

and if you dont even believe in the weight, do you think you could play with a 22oz. cue or 17oz. as long as it had a good hit? or even if they were but or front heavy? and like them just the same? its funny how most great players remember the cue that felt the best.....

 

[drivermaker]

My question is, "Does this number really have a meaning even if I know what I like?"

In other words, I know what will feel right in my hand--but can I get that feel if I specify it in terms of the balance point?

If I have three cues with the same balance points and taper made by three different cue makers, will they hit the same? I tend to think not.

I agree with Sheldon that there are so much more to a cue than a number showing where the balance point is. As a matter of fact, I will go out on the limb to say that this number is pretty much meaningless in determining whether the cue will hit the way I prefer. I do not even believe in the weight itself.

My opinion is this: a well balance cue will feel lighter and a poorly balanced cue will feel heavier; therefore, if I specify I want my cue at 19 oz with a 18.5 balance point, will I get the prefecft hit I desire when the cue is completed? Not necessarily...why? because the balance, in my opinion, cannot be specified in terms of these numbers.

Like Drivermaker stated, the weight of the shaft will make a hugh difference, and so will the weight bolt.

Let's not forget the weight distribution along the cue, i.e. will there be any spike on the weight distribution graph? If a weight bolt is inserted in the forearm, its weight distribution will not be the same as a cue naturally balance, but they may have the same weight and the same balance point--just like two sets of number can have the same mean but different mode--that certainly does not mean that these two cues will feel the same.

What do you guys think?

What can anyone think...you're right on the mark.

But the question I have is...how did you become so well versed about cues and their idiosyncracies? The only reason I ask that is because I've NEVER known a female, pro or otherwise that took as much interest in the matter or had it figured out so well.

 

[Tiffpoolbum]

What can anyone think...you're right on the mark.

But the question I have is...how did you become so well versed about cues and their idiosyncracies? The only reason I ask that is because I've NEVER known a female, pro or otherwise that took as much interest in the matter or had it figured out so well.

Thank you for the compliment. It means a lot coming from you...

Some of the pros on the WPBA tour are very knowlegable on cues, such as Jennifer Chen, who is a cue collector in her own right. There are also female cue dealers who are very well-versed. Ms. Bachman of chalkers.com is one that comes to mind.

What I said was mostly common sense. I am sure it is something a lot of players, male or female alike, already know. Anyway, thank you for taking the time to read my post.

 

[drivermaker]

Thank you for the compliment. It means a lot coming from you...

Hey, when you post a real good one compliments are more than deserving...and when you post a bad one or follow up on someone else's bad one...well, you know...sometimes all hell can break loose.

Guess you haven't been around long enough to see all of the "fear factor" sludge that's been poured on top of my head...

 

[Jon]

Hmmmmm...
With all this talk of balance, has anybody given any though to the players with their grip hand on the buttsleeve?
Would balance really matter there?
Basically the entire cue is in front of their grip, so would the balance make a difference?

 

[drivermaker]

Hmmmmm...
With all this talk of balance, has anybody given any though to the players with their grip hand on the buttsleeve?
Would balance really matter there?
Basically the entire cue is in front of their grip, so would the balance make a difference?

(Unable to catch my breath and contain my excitement)....I don't know Jon, tell us....for Chrissake tell us!! I can't stand the suspense any longer!!!.......