Mental is ruining my game

BlueRaider said:
About 7 years ago, I was in a hill-hill 9-ball match in a hill-hill league playoff with $500 per player on the line for the winning team (not big money, I know, but enough to definitely get your heartrate up).

I broke and ran the hill-hill rack at a time when my skill dictated that I might break and run 2% of the time in 9-ball. I think I had done it only once ever in league up to that point.

Like you said, I don't remember feeling nervous, even though I was nearly paralyzed with nerves in the preceding rack. I just calmly sailed through it getting perfect position on every shot and never once getting out of line.

I'm a much better player now than I was when that happened, and yet I played that rack better than I could today. In terms of comparing my skill level vs the results, I think that was the most "in-stroke" I've ever been, and it truly was a Zen-like moment that I have never truly replicated.
Click to expand...

OK, just one more from way back, this on the subject of "dead stroke.":

I don't know that there's any reliable way to get into that fugue state we call "dead stroke," other than constant study and practice. And then there’s also the issue of “dead stroke” as a moving target.

IMO, dead stroke happens because on certain days many small physical things happen to sync up for us. Some of these little things are seemingly insignificant but actually quite important to whatever idiosyncratic quirks make up our individual body mechanics and stroke. The mental state is just a manifestation of the confidence we end up feeling and perhaps mild euphoria.

So I think dead stroke visits us when we're doing one, two, or maybe more things differently than before. Perhaps a bit more of a step to the left; establishing contact between bridge hand and cue shaft with a different motion; a slightly longer or shorter bridge; a longer or shorter grip; a slightly turned wrist there; a higher or lower head; a more level cue; a longer back stroke; a more relaxed or tighter bridge; and so on. On occasion, all this comes together to produce a precise stroke and the ability to do what we will with the cue ball. Then, the mental part of dead stroke comes to us and we become absorbed by our ability to execute shots with sharpened precision. The next day we go to the table and, because we're not machines, we do it a bit differently and end up with different results.

Way back when, I would notice that if I just played very quickly without thinking I could play "very well." I would run around the table, collapse into a stance, throw a hodge podge of sometimes unorthodox bridges on the table, and zip the balls into the pockets. I could run a lot of balls that way. The problem was that this "system" wasn't reliable enough to count on.

Nowadays, it's more the opposite. I find that it's when I'm concentrating on the balls and table, considering every nuance of the upcoming shot, position play, table layout, and using a very studied technique that I play "very well."

So why the difference? I think it’s because the words "(play) very well" have a different meaning for me now than before. The lack of reliability that I experienced as a younger player was because I just wasn't good enough and didn’t have the knowledge I have today. The failure of my earlier "system" was actually my failure as a player. I could only play so well and missed the balls and position plays I was suppose to miss -- at the time -- not knowing I was suppose to miss them and blaming myself or the "system."

Now, I think I have a better appreciation for how difficult the game can be and more clearly see what I don't know and might not be able to execute. I also now know with much more accuracy what playing "very well" means. Many times in the past, I thought I was playing "very well." Now, I have a much more narrow definition of those words and they require a much higher level of precision and consistency in execution than I would have used just six months ago.

So what does all this mean? I really dunno.

Perhaps it's just that "dead stroke" means different things to different people and different things at different times in our lives. Certainly, "dead stroke" for a player that has only been playing for a year or two means something quite different than to a player with twenty or thirty years of playing experience. And because we keep "raising the bar," dead stroke always remains elusive and a very hard place to get to.

Lou Figueroa
 
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lfigueroa said:
I don't know that there's any reliable way to get into that fugue state we call "dead stroke,"
Click to expand...
Can You Fight? The reliable way is to play for more money than you have in your pocket. Well in the redneck bar when you have long hair and a beard. It has a way of bringing the focus.
 
lfigueroa said:
OK, just one more from way back, this on the subject of "dead stroke.":

I don't know that there's any reliable way to get into that fugue state we call "dead stroke," other than constant study and practice. And then there’s also the issue of “dead stroke” as a moving target.

IMO, dead stroke happens because on certain days many small physical things happen to sync up for us. Some of these little things are seemingly insignificant but actually quite important to whatever idiosyncratic quirks make up our individual body mechanics and stroke. The mental state is just a manifestation of the confidence we end up feeling and perhaps mild euphoria.

So I think dead stroke visits us when we're doing one, two, or maybe more things differently than before. Perhaps a bit more of a step to the left; establishing contact between bridge hand and cue shaft with a different motion; a slightly longer or shorter bridge; a longer or shorter grip; a slightly turned wrist there; a higher or lower head; a more level cue; a longer back stroke; a more relaxed or tighter bridge; and so on. On occasion, all this comes together to produce a precise stroke and the ability to do what we will with the cue ball. Then, the mental part of dead stroke comes to us and we become absorbed by our ability to execute shots with sharpened precision. The next day we go to the table and, because we're not machines, we do it a bit differently and end up with different results.

Way back when, I would notice that if I just played very quickly without thinking I could play "very well." I would run around the table, collapse into a stance, throw a hodge podge of sometimes unorthodox bridges on the table, and zip the balls into the pockets. I could run a lot of balls that way. The problem was that this "system" wasn't reliable enough to count on.

Nowadays, it's more the opposite. I find that it's when I'm concentrating on the balls and table, considering every nuance of the upcoming shot, position play, table layout, and using a very studied technique that I play "very well."

So why the difference? I think it’s because the words "(play) very well" have a different meaning for me now than before. The lack of reliability that I experienced as a younger player was because I just wasn't good enough and didn’t have the knowledge I have today. The failure of my earlier "system" was actually my failure as a player. I could only play so well and missed the balls and position plays I was suppose to miss -- at the time -- not knowing I was suppose to miss them and blaming myself or the "system."

Now, I think I have a better appreciation for how difficult the game can be and more clearly see what I don't know and might not be able to execute. I also now know with much more accuracy what playing "very well" means. Many times in the past, I thought I was playing "very well." Now, I have a much more narrow definition of those words and they require a much higher level of precision and consistency in execution than I would have used just six months ago.

So what does all this mean? I really dunno.

Perhaps it's just that "dead stroke" means different things to different people and different things at different times in our lives. Certainly, "dead stroke" for a player that has only been playing for a year or two means something quite different than to a player with twenty or thirty years of playing experience. And because we keep "raising the bar," dead stroke always remains elusive and a very hard place to get to.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...
My favorite class At USAFA was conducted by a sergeant, speed reading it was called but skimming would be more accurate.
OK I skimmed it twice and still come back to, "Can You Fight?" 🤷‍♂️ 😉
 
gregcantrall said:
Can You Fight? The reliable way is to play for more money than you have in your pocket. Well in the redneck bar when you have long hair and a beard. It has a way of bringing the focus.
Click to expand...

I think we live in different worlds.

Lou Figueroa
 
its called choking . and thats it. you don't ever get over being a choker unless you gamble or play under pressure enough to get where it is second nature.

even then some never get over being a choker. it is what it is.
 
sorin said:
I recently bought an 8ft for my man cave (a year ago) and I am trying to get back into the game (haven't played for a few years), I manage to get about 4-5 hrs a week (on good weeks) but I practice alone. At home I play relatively well but recently I found a weekly tournament where I go about once a month (I am quite busy and can't attend more often). Every time I go there and play I get really nervous, two nights ago my fitbit was showing my pulse at 115-120bpm all the time during my match (normally I have about 68-75 resting) and missed some easy pots, my opponent was good but normally I should have won easily judging by how I play when I am alone. Twice I ran 5 or 6 balls and then at the last one I must have twitched or something and miscued horribly on some medium distance draw shots and gave the racks away.
The time before I went an hour early to get a little bit of a warm up and I played a race to 5 with one of the best players there and we went toe to toe, then my first match of the night got defeated by a player that was not as skilled, missed easy shots, failed some easy safeties.

Anybody else struggled with something similar? What approach should I use to get better at my mind aspect of the game?
Click to expand...
Embrace it! YOU can turn that nervous energy into power and strength! Start by thinking about it that way. Focus on it and let it empower you. Go ahead now.
 
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lfigueroa said:
hmmm, give me moment to go into the "Way Back Machine"...

...OK, here you go:

If it's one of the first times you're playing in a league, or a tournament, or for money, or maybe just playing someone you'd REALLY like to beat, chances are you're going to experience the pounding heart and sweaty shaking hands syndrome -- that's just normal. (You may also cease to mentally function and just experience brain lock.) The solution is really pretty simple: repeatedly put yourself in the same situation until the unusual becomes normal. Eventually, you'll walk up to the table to shoot the money ball just as relaxed as you would take a stroll through the park. A good thing to do is to understand the psychological side of playing pool and for this I recommend Dr. Faucher's "Pleasures of Small Motions."

The second part of what's going on revolves around unrealistic expectations. This boils down to simply believing that it is within your ability to make shots that you cannot. The problem for most of us is that we watch the pros in person, or on television, or perhaps on an Accu-Stats tape, and we see the good players at our local room and they make it look so easy. They make it look *so* easy we lose sight of how crushingly difficult the game actually is and we become disappointed in ourselves when we can't do this simple thing. I recall watching Willie Mosconi run a 100 and I literally rushed to my pool hall thinking, "Well, that's so easy -- anyone should be able to do that!" Of course when I got there and couldn't run more than 10 balls...

And then in practice, in the absence of pressure or distractions, we set up our easiest and favoritest shots, on our preferred table, and fall into a selective memory trap, remembering the shots we whip in (with BIH) and forgetting how many times me missed it or blew the position. From this stems a totally unrealistic set of personal expectations. The next time you think you're "running racks," pay closer attention. Are you really breaking and running out? Or are you just spreading the balls around the table with no clusters or balls on the rail? Are you starting with an easy BIH? Are you really doing it repeatedly. After all, think of all the shots you'd have to have mastered to do it repeatedly. It's one thing to break them, sinking a bunch of balls, having a wide open spread, and being perfect for your first shot. It's another for the balls to bunch up, with several on the rail, and a long thin cut to start off with...

A few days ago I gave a lesson to a guy who was beating himself up saying, "I can't make a ball today." I had been watching him play and told him that one thing every good pool player has is good probability and risk assessment skills. Setting up a moderately difficult cut shot he had missed in a match, I asked him if he thought he should be able to make it. He said, "Of course." I told him that I guessed he was actually something like one in five for the shot AND if he tried shooting it with the position that he had attempted during the match, he was more like one in 12. He looked at me like I was nuts and I told him to go ahead and shoot it without position -- to just cinch the ball.

One in six.

The third part of the breakdown is getting into a pressure situation and just trying too hard -- unconsciously changing our pre-shot routine and stroke mechanics. In trying to be more careful and precise in our execution, we change the way we shoot -- often times, the changes are subtle but significant enough to throw off our alignment and stroke. I believe everything from the pre-shot routine to finally pulling the trigger is an organic whole. In other words, you can't just say I'm going to use a certain bridge, a certain grip, with a certain stance and head position. It's also the movements you employ to get into your stance and the motion you employ during your pre-shot routine that impact the final outcome. When we slow down and try to be more careful everything gets altered. The answer here is to pay attention to the motions and rhythms that work best for you in practice and try as best you can to stick with them in actual play.

Lastly, as we're mid-match and we realize "the wheels are coming off" and we watch them go spinning merrily down the road we start to think negatively. The mind becomes filled with questions: "Man, why am I playing so bad?" "What am I doing wrong?!" "Why me?!" Of course every bad roll we get (and every good roll our opponent gets) contributes to the toxic sludge that starts coming out our ears. The real problem here is that in thinking about these things, we stop thinking about the shots and our execution. Instead of thinking, "I need to be careful about hitting this shot too hard and may have to apply a bit more english to compensate coming off the rail" we're still thinking about the last shot we blew. Think about the bad stuff after the match, not during.

So here's the thing: playing good pool is hard. Real hard. Playing good pool under pressure is even harder. To compete successfully in the arena you have to step into the arena as often as you can until it becomes your second home. And, you need to have a realistic set of expectations about yourself and your game. Playing good pool demands perfect, consistent precision -- not just once or twice, but on every shot. And to do that, you must have developed a body of knowledge and muscle memory that takes years of play to achieve. It's hard work, concentration, study, experimentation, and hitting thousands upon thousands of balls. And lastly, you have to have your head on straight and a clear thinking mind.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...
Hard to add much to this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
It's called Fight or Flight. It's the natural way. Chemicals can illicit similar. They however tend to burn out the internal wiring. Chemically enhanced players exhibit exceptional shot making, however the 85% mental half suffers. 🤷‍♂️
 
straightline said:
Common side effects of Inderal include
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  • sleep problems (insomnia or unusual dreams),
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  • deceased sex drive,
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Everything you need to get right.
Click to expand...
I think all medications have those side effects.
 
lfigueroa said:
hmmm, give me moment to go into the "Way Back Machine"...

...OK, here you go:

If it's one of the first times you're playing in a league, or a tournament, or for money, or maybe just playing someone you'd REALLY like to beat, chances are you're going to experience the pounding heart and sweaty shaking hands syndrome -- that's just normal. (You may also cease to mentally function and just experience brain lock.) The solution is really pretty simple: repeatedly put yourself in the same situation until the unusual becomes normal. Eventually, you'll walk up to the table to shoot the money ball just as relaxed as you would take a stroll through the park. A good thing to do is to understand the psychological side of playing pool and for this I recommend Dr. Faucher's "Pleasures of Small Motions."

The second part of what's going on revolves around unrealistic expectations. This boils down to simply believing that it is within your ability to make shots that you cannot. The problem for most of us is that we watch the pros in person, or on television, or perhaps on an Accu-Stats tape, and we see the good players at our local room and they make it look so easy. They make it look *so* easy we lose sight of how crushingly difficult the game actually is and we become disappointed in ourselves when we can't do this simple thing. I recall watching Willie Mosconi run a 100 and I literally rushed to my pool hall thinking, "Well, that's so easy -- anyone should be able to do that!" Of course when I got there and couldn't run more than 10 balls...

And then in practice, in the absence of pressure or distractions, we set up our easiest and favoritest shots, on our preferred table, and fall into a selective memory trap, remembering the shots we whip in (with BIH) and forgetting how many times me missed it or blew the position. From this stems a totally unrealistic set of personal expectations. The next time you think you're "running racks," pay closer attention. Are you really breaking and running out? Or are you just spreading the balls around the table with no clusters or balls on the rail? Are you starting with an easy BIH? Are you really doing it repeatedly. After all, think of all the shots you'd have to have mastered to do it repeatedly. It's one thing to break them, sinking a bunch of balls, having a wide open spread, and being perfect for your first shot. It's another for the balls to bunch up, with several on the rail, and a long thin cut to start off with...

A few days ago I gave a lesson to a guy who was beating himself up saying, "I can't make a ball today." I had been watching him play and told him that one thing every good pool player has is good probability and risk assessment skills. Setting up a moderately difficult cut shot he had missed in a match, I asked him if he thought he should be able to make it. He said, "Of course." I told him that I guessed he was actually something like one in five for the shot AND if he tried shooting it with the position that he had attempted during the match, he was more like one in 12. He looked at me like I was nuts and I told him to go ahead and shoot it without position -- to just cinch the ball.

One in six.

The third part of the breakdown is getting into a pressure situation and just trying too hard -- unconsciously changing our pre-shot routine and stroke mechanics. In trying to be more careful and precise in our execution, we change the way we shoot -- often times, the changes are subtle but significant enough to throw off our alignment and stroke. I believe everything from the pre-shot routine to finally pulling the trigger is an organic whole. In other words, you can't just say I'm going to use a certain bridge, a certain grip, with a certain stance and head position. It's also the movements you employ to get into your stance and the motion you employ during your pre-shot routine that impact the final outcome. When we slow down and try to be more careful everything gets altered. The answer here is to pay attention to the motions and rhythms that work best for you in practice and try as best you can to stick with them in actual play.

Lastly, as we're mid-match and we realize "the wheels are coming off" and we watch them go spinning merrily down the road we start to think negatively. The mind becomes filled with questions: "Man, why am I playing so bad?" "What am I doing wrong?!" "Why me?!" Of course every bad roll we get (and every good roll our opponent gets) contributes to the toxic sludge that starts coming out our ears. The real problem here is that in thinking about these things, we stop thinking about the shots and our execution. Instead of thinking, "I need to be careful about hitting this shot too hard and may have to apply a bit more english to compensate coming off the rail" we're still thinking about the last shot we blew. Think about the bad stuff after the match, not during.

So here's the thing: playing good pool is hard. Real hard. Playing good pool under pressure is even harder. To compete successfully in the arena you have to step into the arena as often as you can until it becomes your second home. And, you need to have a realistic set of expectations about yourself and your game. Playing good pool demands perfect, consistent precision -- not just once or twice, but on every shot. And to do that, you must have developed a body of knowledge and muscle memory that takes years of play to achieve. It's hard work, concentration, study, experimentation, and hitting thousands upon thousands of balls. And lastly, you have to have your head on straight and a clear thinking mind.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...
Excellent post. 😎
 
gregcantrall said:
The last fight I was in, I won by 30 yards. 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
God this reminds me of a joke, that an old war veteran I used to work with used to tell. He would always joke with our Production Manager, who had a metal plate in his head from a different war...Larry used to tell John that "getting shot in the back of the head, at least meant that he was running in the right direction." Believe it or not, those two guys really did like each other.
😎😂
 
j2pac said:
God this reminds me of a joke, that an old war veteran I used to work with used to tell. He would always joke with our Production Manager, who had a metal plate in his head from a different war...Larry used to tell John that "getting shot in the back of the head, at least meant that he was running in the right direction." Believe it or not, those two guys really did like each other.
😎😂
Click to expand...

Somehow this post made me flash to Kelly's Heroes and Oddball's tank. It had four speeds forward and four speeds reverse. They liked to think they could get out of trouble as fast as they got into it!

About the guys being friends, not surprising. I remember it with combat vets from WWII when I was young. A few quick questions established if two strangers had fought or not. If they had fought then a few more questions determined where and when. A surprising number of people had been in the same place, not that uncommon. That made them pretty sure to be instant brothers for life. However, even if combat vets had served in different theaters they still shared a bond. Even those that served in different wars generally had a tight bond if they had both seen combat for their country.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
Somehow this post made me flash to Kelly's Heroes and Oddball's tank. It had four speeds forward and four speeds reverse. They liked to think they could get out of trouble as fast as they got into it!

About the guys being friends, not surprising. I remember it with combat vets from WWII when I was young. A few quick questions established if two strangers had fought or not. If they had fought then a few more questions determined where and when. A surprising number of people had been in the same place, not that uncommon. That made them pretty sure to be instant brothers for life. However, even if combat vets had served in different theaters they still shared a bond. Even those that served in different wars generally had a tight bond if they had both seen combat for their country.

Hu
Click to expand...
Yes Sir. John was a Marine, and Larry was in the Army. They ragged on each other often, but either one of them would have given the other the shirt off their back. I believe John served in Vietnam, and Larry in Korea. Both of them were ornery, honorable men.
😎
 
what always amazes me is that almost any player seems so often disappointed leaving the table because he is thinking of his last shot, and since he's leaving that shot was probably not his best. The exception is if he plays a good safety on the last shot and then leaving the table may be intentional. so often they will be down on themselves, with drama. one guy will often say "I suck" im waiting to say OH well, as long as you do it well ;-)
Personally I often just try to focus on the next shot, the current shot. Sure in snooker you might be looking for a hook because you realize you are loosing the game but "trying harder' doesn't always help much if you are trying as hard as you can to make every single shot anyway. If you arent trying you shouldn't be at the table.
Sometimes my failure is in trying to make shots that as said above have a lower percentage than my estimate and that can lead me into trouble when playing against better players, playing doubles. I think I may try to copy better players , and take hard shots and that may result in loosing control of the situation due to a bunch of randomness. Often the best course of action then is to try to play more safetys, Try to shoot a bit moe intentionally but a bit lighter to keep control of the result.. yes the better players can shoot harder and still retain control , thats experience at work. So I'll then let my partner who is often a better player get a run by not leaving the person following me any shape. we also tend to match up pairs evenly but also we switch around lots so no one is really a "team" for longer than an evening. In general you help your partner by being able to give advice and since we often switch partners we get the chance to each learn from one another. I guess we do have a lot of antics around the table with some in particular interfering verbally a bit too often. maybe that helps as we do get practice in ignoring the loud one , tuning out distractions. so far as money, all we deal with is donations to the owner and keeping a good friendly supportive surrounding. The less experienced like me tend to wait a bit longer to get up whereas a really good player has more chance to continue. I think for the most part it's more of an internal stress , trying to improve ourselves, putting less attention to who is better and more upon our own pace of progression. often Ill hear praise for a good shot even from opponents. Money games and Fonzie ratings are not things I'm concerned of, only in improving my own game. I just try to keep my mind on the next shot, getting myself down is of no help. I do think that during a good run one feels more confident and is then more likely to play more aggressively and less safety shots, feeling the rush. maybe that's just natural. Its easy to get yourself down because you are just up to the table not warmed up and loose to others who have been playing then I have to sit and wait, but that's fair. The drive for improvement , for most of us here, is more often about retaining the position at the table and self satisfaction than anything else.
I noted some variation in venues, some tend to call things more, like if your tee shirt touches a ball then its a fault but in some venues there is more or less permission to ignore it. Often it's a situation where others aren't even looking and the player calls a fault upon himself in honesty. Introduce money and I guess all eyes are on the table a bit more . Im not good enough to quit my day job anyway so that's not a concern of mine. Im often immersed in my own constructive projects and work a lot on my own, pool gives me time to socialize and spend time with friends, I need the smiling and gut laughter which I dont get doing personal projects, from those I get a feeling of physical accomplishment, I find that I need the balance of both in my life. Slowly I'm seeing some improvement and there is a sense of accomplishment in that but I also need to see things happen like the completion of projects that are more physical in nature. To me pool is just fun. I like the quote that says "Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" - Bertrand Russel.
 
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