method for learning English compensation

PKM

PKM

OB-1 Kenobi
Silver Member
Going off some advice that I received in another thread, I want to use a straight-in shot from various distances and using different speeds to learn the precise compensation I need when applying English. (I'm attempting to use fronthand English, but the same idea would apply to any method). The idea being to make the shot and leave the CB spinning.

I just wanted to see what other people thought about this, and perhaps if there is another way of doing it, maybe hitting into the rail instead. I thought I would use some coins to "tighten" the pocket so I have to pocket it dead center.

Often I have read the advice to use an easy cut shot for this purpose, but wouldn't a straight-in shot be simpler to start with and still achieve the purpose? In either case you are including any effects from spin-induced throw (I'm assuming it exists!). Obviously I would want to practice cut shots as well. Anyway, sorry to ramble for so long.
 
PKM said:
Going off some advice that I received in another thread, I want to use a straight-in shot from various distances and using different speeds to learn the precise compensation I need when applying English. (I'm attempting to use fronthand English, but the same idea would apply to any method). The idea being to make the shot and leave the CB spinning.

I just wanted to see what other people thought about this, and perhaps if there is another way of doing it, maybe hitting into the rail instead. I thought I would use some coins to "tighten" the pocket so I have to pocket it dead center.

Often I have read the advice to use an easy cut shot for this purpose, but wouldn't a straight-in shot be simpler to start with and still achieve the purpose? In either case you are including any effects from spin-induced throw (I'm assuming it exists!). Obviously I would want to practice cut shots as well. Anyway, sorry to ramble for so long.
Click to expand...
I don't think you need to tighten the pocket or shoot the object ball at any target. Assuming you set the cue ball and object ball at the same distance apart each time, the only indication you need that you hit the object ball perfectly is that the cue ball doesn't move to the side, but spins in place.

On another topic, I'm a little confused by your mention of using fronthand english and learning sidespin compensation for different distances and speeds.

To me, fronthand english (and backhand english) are ways of applying english that supposedly automatically adjust your aim to compensate for squirt. I say supposedly because these methods don't take into account swerve, the other effect of hitting the cueball offcenter. Swerve varies with distance, speed, butt elevation and ball/cloth condition, so compensatng for it means estimating the adjustment needed.

So I'm curious how you can combine a fixed, mechanical method of compensating for squirt with a trial and error method of learning how to compensate for swerve. Will you use fronthand english to adjust for squirt on each shot and trial and error to learn how much swerve adjustment is needed from there?

pj
chgo
 
PKM said:
Going off some advice that I received in another thread, I want to use a straight-in shot from various distances and using different speeds to learn the precise compensation I need when applying English. (I'm attempting to use fronthand English, but the same idea would apply to any method). The idea being to make the shot and leave the CB spinning.

I just wanted to see what other people thought about this, and perhaps if there is another way of doing it, maybe hitting into the rail instead. I thought I would use some coins to "tighten" the pocket so I have to pocket it dead center.

Often I have read the advice to use an easy cut shot for this purpose, but wouldn't a straight-in shot be simpler to start with and still achieve the purpose? In either case you are including any effects from spin-induced throw (I'm assuming it exists!). Obviously I would want to practice cut shots as well. Anyway, sorry to ramble for so long.
Click to expand...

I have found over the years when helping someone who is learning to use English that the compensation you are speaking of is not so much from the cue ball to the object ball as it is from how the object is effected by the throw generated on the object ball by the English used.

If the cue ball is hit with a smooth firm stroke and approximately medium speed, English will have little effect on the cue balls path until it contacts the object ball. So the real concept is the effect that occurs after the collision of the cue ball and the object ball. Now these effects can be controlled by how far off center the cue ball struck, and most importantly by the smoothness, firmness, and the proper follow through of a persons stroke.

I think the best way to test the effects of throw on the object ball, is by placing a ball on the head spot and then by place a small spot where the foot spot would be it a straight line from the center Diamond behind the head spot to a center diamond behind the foot spot. First start with center ball hits and with a medium stroke aim the object ball into the diamond behind the head spot. If you are in a straight line, and stroke the ball correctly as stated above, the object ball should rebound off the cushion and hit the cue ball, which should also still be stopped or traveling in a straight line from the foot spot to the head spot.

Then, once you have achieved the proper results from the center ball hits, begin to use a half a tip of English on the cue ball and watch how it effects the path of the object ball and the cue ball after contact. Once you become familiar with the effects of a half a tip of English, go on to a full tip, which according to most people is the Max needed for Pocket billiards play.

By shooting in a direct line as outlined above you can visually see the effects of English, according to your individual ability to stroke the ball. From there you can adjust what ever is necessary to make your shots, and it still you a way to practice the adjustment you will need to make effectively over and over again where ever you are.

Hope this helps, and have a good night!!!
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I don't think you need to tighten the pocket or shoot the object ball at any target. Assuming you set the cue ball and object ball at the same distance apart each time, the only indication you need that you hit the object ball perfectly is that the cue ball doesn't move to the side, but spins in place.

On another topic, I'm a little confused by your mention of using fronthand english and learning sidespin compensation for different distances and speeds.

To me, fronthand english (and backhand english) are ways of applying english that supposedly automatically adjust your aim to compensate for squirt. I say supposedly because these methods don't take into account swerve, the other effect of hitting the cueball offcenter. Swerve varies with distance, speed, butt elevation and ball/cloth condition, so compensatng for it means estimating the adjustment needed.

So I'm curious how you can combine a fixed, mechanical method of compensating for squirt with a trial and error method of learning how to compensate for swerve. Will you use fronthand english to adjust for squirt on each shot and trial and error to learn how much swerve adjustment is needed from there?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Now that I think about it, does keeping the CB spinning in place while ignoring the OB account for spin-induced throw (you want to make sure you're sending the OB in a straight line)?

Regarding your second point, doesn't the amount of squirt depend on speed? It may not be possible or practical to separate the effects of squirt and swerve, but wouldn't trial and error tell you what adjustments are compensating for the net result? Please correct me if I am not making any sense.
 
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manwon said:
I think the best way to test the effects of throw on the object ball, is by placing a ball on the head spot and then by place a small spot where the foot spot would be it a straight line from the center Diamond behind the head spot to a center diamond behind the foot spot. First start with center ball hits and with a medium stroke aim the object ball into the diamond behind the head spot. If you are in a straight line, and stroke the ball correctly as stated above, the object ball should rebound off the cushion and hit the cue ball, which should also still be stopped or traveling in a straight line from the foot spot to the head spot.
Click to expand...

If I understand you correctly, you're hitting the CB into the OB which hits the rail and rebounds back to the CB. This would have an extremely small margin of error as you're coming off a rail and have to hit perfectly on the CB. It would seem to be quite difficult to then judge the effects of English.
 
PKM I think your thought process is on the right track and you're asking good questions...but be aware that this is very hard to learn from a thread in a forum. If possible you'll definitely want to learn this from someone at the table. Such as in this clip which you've probably seen before.

If you're having trouble with Manwon and PJ's exercises, try easier variations of the same shot before progressing to your area of concern. Also it's a good idea to run through some basic stroke drills first to make sure you're getting repeatable results. Table/playing conditions will also have an impact on throw and spin, so try and practice this stuff on the same table every time. ;)
 
Scott Lee said:
Just one question...WHY?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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To be able to send the CB to a precise location while using English, which would then apply to cut shots as well. Obviously I wouldn't be using English on a straight-in shot in a game unless I was drawing back to a rail.
 
Puck said:
PKM I think your thought process is on the right track and you're asking good questions...but be aware that this is very hard to learn from a thread in a forum. If possible you'll definitely want to learn this from someone at the table. Such as in this clip which you've probably seen before.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm probably making it too complicated, I should probably just focus on executing some shots like that which require English (maybe simpler ones), which I have been doing in practice.
 
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