You like the ultimate weapon better than The Pro shaft?
Meucci Black Dot Shaft.....why not the rage?
- Thread starter 336Robin
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You like the ultimate weapon better than The Pro shaft?
karppa68
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The Black dot doesn't look that great in this chart...
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/squirt.html#data
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/squirt.html#data
According to Meuci's own test the black dot has less deflection than the red dot. Complete opposite of this squirt test for deflection.
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This test is complete BS! Platinum Billiards had a chart which showed the Black Dot to actually have high deflection, more than average! This squares with my own observations.
I owned a Black Dot, and so did a lot of other pool players in my area for a short while. It's just not a very good shaft. It will put balls in the pocket just like any other shaft will, even a broomstick will pocket balls, but it gives bad feedback and the quality is piss poor. I remember shooting power shots and thinking that the shaft never stopped vibrating! The "LD" properties are suspect, at best.
I don't know a single good player that uses their Black Dot shaft today (many used to own one), while several still use 314's that they bought at about the same time, or rebought after their first ones got worn out. I'm talking about higher level players that have been active for the whole time span, from then till now. I got lucky enough to sell my Black Dot. I got stuck with the butt, though, a Meucci Demo cue. This is the single worst cue butt I've ever owned, even worse than 20 dollar Filipino cues. It's really bendy and you can feel it bend when you shoot, the feedback sucks and the grip laquer cracked, forcing me to repair the grip. On top of that, the joint collar popped out and now there's an edge there. The only good things are that the balance is pretty decent and the flat bumper looks kind of nice.
I will never buy another Meucci product again, unless it's a really, really old Meucci from the 80`s. Some of those are decent cues and since they have stood the test of time they won't warp like the new ones.
The lowest deflecting shaft I've tried is Predator Z2. It's really thin and mostly hollow with a short, lightweight ferrule. How are you going to get lower end mass than that with a wooden shaft? Think about it, the Meucci Black dot is not hollow and has a fairly long ferrule (that's probably lightweight, but still long). I read somewhere that Black Dot Meuccis have a gap between the tenon and the ferrule, but that's it for end mass reduction tech..If maximum LD is what you want, Z2 is the way to go.
I'm not sure about the Carbon shaft (Revo). I haven't tried it enough to be absolutely sure if it deflects less than the Z2.
There are people on the forum that will try to persuade you that their favourite brand deflects less than equivalent Predator shafts, but they just don't. Hollow front ends weigh less. It's really that simple. Solid shafts feel better, but hollow ones deflect less. Try it for yourself, but use backhand english to determine the pivot point of the shaft. That is the most objective way.
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Great Posts!
These are both great and informative posts thanks guys!
Ive played with most of the LDs out by simply finding someone with one and borrowing it for awhile. My "Flight of the Cue Ball" is about learning to gauge and cope with cue ball squirt and I offer a formula for gauging it depending on cue type, stroke speed and distance so this sort of thing really interests me but I havent had any experience with the Black Dot Shaft. The fact that its stack laminated and no hollowed out front end sort of puzzle me but some of the shafts I've played with sort of puzzle me as my all time favorites are regular maple.
One shaft that I like the squirt on but havent like the hit is the Jacoby Hybrid. I like the way it plays well enough to want to put Elkmaster on it and give it a go.
The whole squirt thing can become a monster if you're not careful but you can understand it better which is what I think most people need some help with.
When your cue ball to object ball distance goes beyond 2 diamonds you better know something about how your shaft squirts with all stroke types and have practiced them at those distances.
I just happened to see the squirt testing video by Bob Meucci the other day and thought about it. I'd like to try some of their stuff so I can say I've give it a go and have wondered about the Black Dot. The Ulitimate Weapon sounds interesting!
I like the soft hit of the OB shafts Ive tested. I'm used to figuring the squirt into the shots but its really nice to not have to for the most part.
When you have a good LD that you like that allowance is so small its almost non existent on most of the shots.
If I didnt just love the challenge I would have had permanent LD's on my cues.
As a result of the research I can play pretty well with any type of shaft but I will confess the Z2 takes me awhile to get used to not not because of the squirt but the feel and the extra throw/spin I tend to get with it from what I remember.
I had this shot I couldnt miss with my regular maple cue that I shot with the Z2 and I couldnt make it until I changed several things because I was getting a lot of spin on off center hits.
So its definitely what you get used to!
These are both great and informative posts thanks guys!
Ive played with most of the LDs out by simply finding someone with one and borrowing it for awhile. My "Flight of the Cue Ball" is about learning to gauge and cope with cue ball squirt and I offer a formula for gauging it depending on cue type, stroke speed and distance so this sort of thing really interests me but I havent had any experience with the Black Dot Shaft. The fact that its stack laminated and no hollowed out front end sort of puzzle me but some of the shafts I've played with sort of puzzle me as my all time favorites are regular maple.
One shaft that I like the squirt on but havent like the hit is the Jacoby Hybrid. I like the way it plays well enough to want to put Elkmaster on it and give it a go.
The whole squirt thing can become a monster if you're not careful but you can understand it better which is what I think most people need some help with.
When your cue ball to object ball distance goes beyond 2 diamonds you better know something about how your shaft squirts with all stroke types and have practiced them at those distances.
I just happened to see the squirt testing video by Bob Meucci the other day and thought about it. I'd like to try some of their stuff so I can say I've give it a go and have wondered about the Black Dot. The Ulitimate Weapon sounds interesting!
I like the soft hit of the OB shafts Ive tested. I'm used to figuring the squirt into the shots but its really nice to not have to for the most part.
When you have a good LD that you like that allowance is so small its almost non existent on most of the shots.
If I didnt just love the challenge I would have had permanent LD's on my cues.
As a result of the research I can play pretty well with any type of shaft but I will confess the Z2 takes me awhile to get used to not not because of the squirt but the feel and the extra throw/spin I tend to get with it from what I remember.
I had this shot I couldnt miss with my regular maple cue that I shot with the Z2 and I couldnt make it until I changed several things because I was getting a lot of spin on off center hits.
So its definitely what you get used to!
Tend to agree here. The small diameter, conical-taper LD shafts require PRECISE cuing. If you go just a hair from center you will get spin when you may not really want/need it.
As I said, the Mythbuster has a few basic things wrong with its design. A testing robot is the right thing to do (Iron Willie), but the Mythbuster and some others that have copied it aren't designed correctly to test for squirt.
What needs to be incorporated and what should be avoided has been on these forums for years.
Freddie
If its true then....
The thing that really jumped out at me because I have some personal experience here is that he uses a cue ball against and object ball to measure cue ball deflection and that is not what is being represented.
What is being represented is a dramatization of what cue ball squirt is happening and that can be manipulated.
If its true that the black dot invokes less squirt by the amount he shows compared to a 314, that is huge and if its true it puts the Black Dot in a class by itself in that respect.
But review what we know: The Black Dot has no relief of front end weight so where is it getting the squirt reduction from?
There is only one place possible and that is the shaft bending.
Do you want your shaft bending that much with a medium stroke? Not to mention the addition of a flexible butt?
Im sure we can look it up but I can't imagine that any shaft could be that much less than a 314. All of the LDs are fairly close over a 7 diamond distance. At that distance how much difference do think there would be in actual cue ball squirt?
No very much. So thats why I suspect the bendy shaft.
The thing that really jumped out at me because I have some personal experience here is that he uses a cue ball against and object ball to measure cue ball deflection and that is not what is being represented.
What is being represented is a dramatization of what cue ball squirt is happening and that can be manipulated.
If its true that the black dot invokes less squirt by the amount he shows compared to a 314, that is huge and if its true it puts the Black Dot in a class by itself in that respect.
But review what we know: The Black Dot has no relief of front end weight so where is it getting the squirt reduction from?
There is only one place possible and that is the shaft bending.
Do you want your shaft bending that much with a medium stroke? Not to mention the addition of a flexible butt?
Im sure we can look it up but I can't imagine that any shaft could be that much less than a 314. All of the LDs are fairly close over a 7 diamond distance. At that distance how much difference do think there would be in actual cue ball squirt?
No very much. So thats why I suspect the bendy shaft.
When Predator became popular, Meucci targeted it in one of their ads.
They pretty much claimed laminated shafts aren't good.
That didn't work as the Red Dot shaft sales were nowhere near the Pred's sales.
Then suddenly Meucci came up with a flat-lam shaft called Black Dot.
Let's cut to the chase. Flam lam shafts are not pretty. Too much weight is added by so much glue. They cannot be as smooth as one-piece or pie-lam shafts.
It's the nature of the beast.
The flat lam thingy has nothing to do with cue ball squirt . The cue ball has no idea a flat lam shaft is hitting it.
Meucci should join the pie-lam and/or carbon fiber tube insert bandwagon.
The Black Dot is not much of a success story.
Their deflection test is worth as much as coke vs pepsi taste test.
They pretty much claimed laminated shafts aren't good.
That didn't work as the Red Dot shaft sales were nowhere near the Pred's sales.
Then suddenly Meucci came up with a flat-lam shaft called Black Dot.
Let's cut to the chase. Flam lam shafts are not pretty. Too much weight is added by so much glue. They cannot be as smooth as one-piece or pie-lam shafts.
It's the nature of the beast.
The flat lam thingy has nothing to do with cue ball squirt . The cue ball has no idea a flat lam shaft is hitting it.
Meucci should join the pie-lam and/or carbon fiber tube insert bandwagon.
The Black Dot is not much of a success story.
Their deflection test is worth as much as coke vs pepsi taste test.
Yes. They're both "The Pro"shafts. I like the smaller tip. My favorite "The Pro UW" shaft (I have several) has been turned down to 10.7mm.
I currently own one meucci and previously owned 2 others. Due to the fact that meucci is local to my area I have encountered quite a few players that own meuccis.
I have never had a quality issue with any of mine except one that had a slightly warped shaft that I straightened out and I stays straight foe the next 1 years I owned it.
A few years back I took it upon myself to ask every meucci owner I encountered I'd I could look at their cue after reading one of those threads about meucci quality issues.
I encountered one that had issues. It was a gambler model that the owner has owned for 14 years that you could feel the bottom ring sticking out a little.
I know that it was his a small sample of the thousands of meucci cues out there but 1 issue out of the 60 or so cues I inspected seems like not much of a quality control problem considering the one cue with an issue was 14 years old and apparently abused as well as used.