Mid-Mo Pool Scene Takes a Hit

Aaron_S

Aaron_S

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, I wouldn't have believed it was possible, but I have recently received word from a reliable source that the pool scene here in Mid-MO will be getting much worse before it gets better. Phil Spudich, proprietor of Columbia Billiards, Rack And Roll Billiards, and Billiards of Springfield, has announced that he will be closing both of his Columbia locations at the end of June. I have not yet spoken to Phil personally, but the word is that he blames the recent smoking ban for a sharp decline in patronage, and for this and a few other reasons he has decided that it is not worth his time to continue to operate these two businesses. I don't have any other details at this time, and, as I said, I have not even confirmed this yet with Phil, but the person I got the story from should certainly be considered "in the know".

For Columbia this means that the town, of almost 100k people BTW, will no longer have what most of us would consider an actual pool hall. There are other establishments in Columbia that have pool tables, but they are primarily bars, and none of them offer an environment that is conducive to serious play, and they obviously do not cater to younger players. For Missouri this means that we will no longer have the "MO State Amateur 8-Ball Championship" or the "MO State Amateur 9-Ball Championship", tournaments that generally sported full fields, and were, at least for me, immensely enjoyable. And for the sport this means that there are two fewer billiard-related establishments that a parent might actually feel comfortable allowing their kids to visit to learn to play and enjoy pool, further hurting the odds that the next generation of pool players will be larger than it's predecessors.

Hopefully someone will step in soon and fill the vacuum that will undoubtedly be created with the closing of these pool halls.

:( Aaron :(
 
It is just a matter of time

before someone challenges the STATE enacted no smoking laws that it violates CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. Government has no right to render
moral judgment over people.

I understand there was some trouble down in New Jersey because of the no smoking ban too.

Business owners will revolt against this sooner or later.
 
We're going to have a smoking ban here in Illinois soon, and I can't wait. I love pool, and the only real downside to playing is that you have no choice but to be a smoker (2nd hand obv). Will there be some reshuffling of businesses/owners? Probably, but it will get sorted out.

Peoria doesn't have what I consider to be a real pool hall either, and we're about the same size as Columbia. I used to live in MO, and I still have much :wub: for that state.
 
Snapshot9 said:
before someone challenges the STATE enacted no smoking laws that it violates CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. Government has no right to render
moral judgment over people.

I understand there was some trouble down in New Jersey because of the no smoking ban too.

Business owners will revolt against this sooner or later.
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll see this legislation being reversed. The popular trend is toward more bans in public places. It isn't so much that government is imposing a moral judgment as it is addressing health concerns.

It is unfortunate that these laws and ordinances are affecting the trade of pool hall owners and the opportunities for players. If there is a market for the wonderful game of pool, it will succeed despite the smoking bans.
 
That's interesting since I'm considering moving there in the near future.
 
alstl said:
That's interesting since I'm considering moving there in the near future.
Click to expand...

Are you also considering opening up a pool hall by chance?? :D

Aaron
 
Unfortunately, most business owners find that a smoking ban does not affect business in a negative way. It it has any effect it is normally profitable. This is based on researched information collected by myself and my students. I assigned them to write a research paper when our city, Paducah Kentucky, passed the smoking ban. After disagregating the data, it is pretty obvious that most businesses in mosts cities see profits from a smoking ban.

As a person with a degree in history and political science and a career as a Government/Economics teacher, I am 99% positive that you can forget a revolt by business owners or someone winning in the state or national supreme court. Most people forget about the "promote the general welfare" clause in the Constiution. THe government can passes tons of laws such as a smoking ban and use this one sentence, located in the Preamble, to justify it.

Not saying I agree with it...but those are the facts and I have a little background in the matter. It sucks though...I hate not being able to smoke when I am playing. I am addicted and I get figidy when I cant smoke. It is killing my one pocket game...oh, wait, I am the one killing my one pocket game. LOL
 
Disaggregate means to take data, information, statistics, or information and break it down into useable and understandable pieces. It basicially means to analyze data and draw intelligent conclusions based on the information you have researched and gathered.
 
disaggregating - to break apart into constituent parts for analysis.


*edit*

whoop, beat me to it.


Anyways, do you, by any chance, have the research documented? i'd be very interested in how the numbers turned up. something i've always wondered myself but lack the resources to fully experiment (i'm no teacher, haha).
 
Hi Aaron,

If this turns out to be true, it is very depressing. Every year that I attended the State tournament I had a great time.

IF you know Phil pretty well, have him look into Columbia's smoking law and look for any info on "private clubs". If the places were to go private (meaning that the members would have to pay a very small one time fee to become a member) if the smoking ban would apply.

There is a well known place up here in the KC area that found this loophole, and by charging a small membership fee to the patrons, the owners place was then considered a "private club" and the smoking ban does not apply.
 
In most areas, the loopholes for "private clubs" are being taken care of. It is becoming increasingly tough for these clubs to exist because of the ways the laws are written. When cities first enacted these laws, there were few stipulations on what constiututes a private club. Nowadays, the laws are written in such a fashion to make it virtually impossible for a public business to be a private club.

As far as economic proof, the CDC offers up many articles that show profit analysis pre and post smoking ban in cities. One interesting article discusses the restaraunts and bars of El Paso, Texas. You can view this article on the CDC website at http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5307a2.htm

At least 90% of the larger cities that I have researched have numbers that are comparible to El Paso's. Smaller cities numbers are different for societal reasons. It takes longer for the profit margins to get back to normal in smaller cities but they always come back up. It seems to have to do with business owners non compliance and offering the correct measures to still accomidate their smoking clients within the laws.

This is not an easy issue to discuss or to agree on. I personally not against smoking bans in some places and in some places I am for it. I think smoking should be allowed in certain entertainment venues such as pool rooms and bars.
 
Scottster said:
Hi Aaron,

If this turns out to be true, it is very depressing. Every year that I attended the State tournament I had a great time.

IF you know Phil pretty well, have him look into Columbia's smoking law and look for any info on "private clubs". If the places were to go private (meaning that the members would have to pay a very small one time fee to become a member) if the smoking ban would apply.

There is a well known place up here in the KC area that found this loophole, and by charging a small membership fee to the patrons, the owners place was then considered a "private club" and the smoking ban does not apply.
Click to expand...

Hey Scott. Depressing is certainly an appropriate word for the situation. I do know Phil pretty well, and I may actually see him tonight. The private club suggestion sounds like it might be a good way to subvert the smoking ban, but I suspect that Phil's other reasons for wanting to close up shop are also significant ones.

Without going too far into the realm of speculation, I would guess that his age is a significant factor. I believe he is in his early sixties now, and he may be looking to go into some sort of semi-retirement while he is still healthy enough to enjoy it. Having businesses in both Columbia and Springfield, which are about 3 hours apart, would certainly put a damper on that.

Like I said, though, that's just speculation on my part. Hopefully I can speak to him tonight and give him the "what the hell are you trying to do to us??" treatment, lol. I'll post again if I learn anything new.

Aaron
 
Another issue that most legislators will and can argue is that if a smoking ban hurts a business and causes it to close then the business is not a societal need in the first place and will later cause the community to flourish. This arguement actually makes sense to the "majority." Less bars, less pool rooms, less casinos, less bowling alleys means, at least to the majority, less crime and more cultured entertainment choices. Many cities and many legislators would love to see, whether they will admit it or not, bars/pool rooms/strip clubs/etc... close. They believe that if a city has less of these then they will be able to attract different kinds of businesses. While this will hurt the local economy at the beginning, they feel that, in the long run, this will be an economic benefit to a community. It is kind of like saying "in order to make an omelete, you have to break some eggs." Once again, I am saying that I agree with this, I am simply stating viewpoints from legislators and economists that most people do not consider. Of course, I don't have the answers. If I did, I would be the Federal Reserve Chairman. LOL
 
We went non smoking about a year ago. Everyone just goes outside whenever they need a fix. As a smoker (and soon to be ex), I even admit that I like the clean air in the room now. I would have a hard time believing that a room would close because of a non-smoking law.

However, I agree that our government is stepping into areas it has NO business.

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070313/NEWS01/70313004/1002

This is scary, but is going on all over. The problem is we continue to elect idiots who only care about their own moral/financial concerns and are not in office for the majority of people they represent.
 
I read that article...that is ridiculous. That law COULD be challenged in the state supreme court and could easily be overturned. There is a big difference in "promoting the general welfare" and communism.
 
Aaron_S said:
Hopefully I can speak to him tonight and give him the "what the hell are you trying to do to us??" treatment, lol. I'll post again if I learn anything new.

Aaron
Click to expand...

Aaron,

Are you going to be a Rack & Roll tonight? I'll be there for league and would be very interested in knowing if this is indeed fact. It would really suck to have to go to Willie's or Booche's since Booche's is so small and Willie's has such shitty equipment!

Zack <---- Hoping that if Phil is closing someone else will step in to keep the halls open.
 
zeeder said:
Aaron,

Are you going to be a Rack & Roll tonight? I'll be there for league and would be very interested in knowing if this is indeed fact. It would really suck to have to go to Willie's or Booche's since Booche's is so small and Willie's has such shitty equipment!

Zack <---- Hoping that if Phil is closing someone else will step in to keep the halls open.
Click to expand...

Hey Zack. Yes, I'll be at R&R tonight. I agree wholeheartedly about the other places; they are both fine establishments, both serve their intended audience well, but neither place could be considered a serious pool hall. Booche's has like 5 or 6 tables, two of which are snooker tables, and one of which is a billiard table; plus, the two pool tables (antique Brunswicks) play too loose for any serious pool to be played on them. Willie's has more tables, but as I recall they're too close together and the felt looked like it had been on there for 6 or 8 years without a single brushing. It's definitely going to be a bit painful for a while. I'm anxious to talk to Phil myself, but from what I've heard so far, there's no chance of stopping this process. As you said, we can only hope that someone else will step in quickly.

See you tonight,

Aaron
 
Aaron_S said:
Are you also considering opening up a pool hall by chance?? :D

Aaron
Click to expand...

No but I'm looking for a house with a basement for my 9' A E Schmidt.
 
ziskan1013 said:
disaggregating - to break apart into constituent parts for analysis.


*edit*

whoop, beat me to it.


Anyways, do you, by any chance, have the research documented? i'd be very interested in how the numbers turned up. something i've always wondered myself but lack the resources to fully experiment (i'm no teacher, haha).
Click to expand...




MOPAR or no car
 
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