Milk Duds redux - baked this time

[Flex]

Some more experimentation with Milk Dud tips...

Instead of soaking an Elk Master tip in milk for 24 hours and then compressing it in a clamp or vise for 24 hours to make the vaunted Milk Dud tip, I thought I'd experiment and see if one could be made more quickly, and happily found out that this procedure works just as well.

Put an Elk Master tip (14mm recommended, they'll be a bit taller after compression than a 13) in a small glass or other microwavable container and put about an inch of milk in it. Pop it in a microwave just long enough to get the milk to boil for a second. Probably less than 30 seconds or so. Take it out of the microwave and let it stand for about 10 minutes, maybe less. Check to make sure the tip has expanded fully. Remove it from the milk, and rinse it off in water and dry it with a paper towel. Then put it in a vise and tighten it, squeezing all the milk out of it. I use a 2 1/2 inch metal C-clamp I bought at Home Depot for less than $2, and tighten it as much as I can with my hands, and use no extra tools to get it tighter. In a powerful vise, it can be torqued considerably more, of course, and it may be possible to overdo it. I left it in the C-clamp for about an hour and a half, but put the clamp with the tip in a conventional oven, not a microwave oven, on the lowest setting I could, and baked it for that time. Took it out of the oven, removed the tip from the clamp, and put just the tip back in the oven for another half hour.

Installed the tip, and tested it yesterday. Plays just as well as the ones that were soaked for 24 hours and compressed for 24 hours.

Perhaps less baking would be alright, may test that in the future.

Here are some other threads on Milk Duds:


http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=59975&highlight=Milk+Duds

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=51760&highlight=Milk+Duds

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=44724&highlight=Milk+Duds

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=30381&highlight=Milk+Duds

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=13403&highlight=Milk+Duds



Flex

Edited to correct a possible misunderstanding regarding where to bake the tip!

 

[Vahmurka]

interesting, especially I've heard some LePro installed on Viking cues at the facility are considered to be "baked". But since the result is the same I think it does not beat common process of 24hrs soaking/pressing because it is easy to overdo something when dealing with an oven.
Keep experimenting though My first experience with milk duds is closer and closer as my current tip worns out.

 

[ShootingArts]

ain't into baking . . .

Being from way down south I am not much on baking. How about trying deep frying one?

Thanks for the info. Experimenting is good, sharing what you learn is very generous.

Hu

Some more experimentation with Milk Dud tips...

Instead of soaking an Elk Master tip in milk for 24 hours and then compressing it in a clamp or vise for 24 hours to make the vaunted Milk Dud tip, I thought I'd experiment and see if one could be made more quickly, and happily found out that this procedure works just as well.

Put an Elk Master tip (14mm recommended, they'll be a bit taller after compression than a 13) in a small glass or other microwavable container and put about an inch of milk in it. Pop it in a microwave just long enough to get the milk to boil for a second. Probably less than 30 seconds or so. Take it out of the microwave and let it stand for about 10 minutes, maybe less. Check to make sure the tip has expanded fully. Remove it from the milk, and rinse it off in water and dry it with a paper towel. Then put it in a vise and tighten it, squeezing all the milk out of it. I use a 2 1/2 inch metal C-clamp I bought at Home Depot for less than $2, and tighten it as much as I can with my hands, and use no extra tools to get it tighter. In a powerful vise, it can be torqued considerably more, of course, and it may be possible to overdo it. I left it in the C-clamp for about an hour and a half, but put the clamp with the tip in the oven, on the lowest setting I could, and baked it for that time. Took it out of the oven, removed the tip from the clamp, and put just the tip back in the oven for another half hour.

Installed the tip, and tested it yesterday. Plays just as well as the ones that were soaked for 24 hours and compressed for 24 hours.

Perhaps less baking would be alright, may test that in the future.

Here are some other threads on Milk Duds:


http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=59975&highlight=Milk+Duds

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=51760&highlight=Milk+Duds

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=44724&highlight=Milk+Duds

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=30381&highlight=Milk+Duds

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=13403&highlight=Milk+Duds



Flex

 

[whitey2]

I hope you are not putting a metal clamp in a microwave oven

I hope you are not putting a metal clamp in a microwave oven. That was
the impression I first got from your post, but maybe you meant a conventional
oven since you used the term "baked".

 

[Flex]

I hope you are not putting a metal clamp in a microwave oven. That was
the impression I first got from your post, but maybe you meant a conventional
oven since you used the term "baked".

Whoooooeeeee, baby!

Glad you caught that.

Of course, not! No metal should go in a microwave oven, ever!

Bake it in a conventional oven!

Thanks, whitey2


Flex

 

[Ky Boy]

What are the advantages of using a 'milk dud' tip?

Just curious!!

Gary

 

[chilli66]

Flex, your timing is amazing. I start soaking a tip & then I see this thread! I think I'll go with the old way this time. I'm in no rush & will probably need the oven later anyway!

I just decided it was time to stick a milk dud on my Dominiak. If it turns out half as good as the one I put on my el cheapo cue I know I'm gonna love it.

KY Boy, I've only done the milk dud thing once so far but I found that the tip will maintain its shape very well & hold chalk beautifully. Also the feel of the tip is nice, it feels soft on a soft shot yet feels way tougher when you hammer the CB! My old stick with the milk dud on now serves as my break cue & works very well. Actually, a team mate of mine has borrowed the cue a couple of times recently & now wants to buy it! He loves the tip!

 

[John Barton]

Metal in the Microwave

You can put metal in the microwave. You shouldn't but you can. One night at a party we played around with tin foil to see what would produce the coolest effects. Basically the ionized air causes arcs or small lightning bolts between metal points. These flashes can be intense but are instantly gone. Mostly the microwave can get some scoring from the heat but not any permanent damage.

I still wouldn't put metal in the microwave unless I was either playing around or had a very good reason.

Thanks for the tips on the Milk Duds. Has anyone tried this process with Le Pros or similar tips?

 

[Varney Cues]

Hello John. You can also soak Triangles in mineral spirits then press them to make whats probably the hardest legal leather tip in existance.

 

[John Barton]

Hello John. You can also soak Triangles in mineral spirits then press them to make whats probably the hardest legal leather tip in existance.

This makes sense. In essence with the proper treatment you should be able to make any piece of leather as hard as a rock. Fossilizing it essentially.

Back in the day I made water buffalo tips so hard that they jumped as well as phenolics.

It would probably be possible to vacuum inject some chemical agents into the tips to make them hard as well similar to what is done to produce Dymondwood.

I think the magic formula people are looking for though is to find one that produces a firm tip with a lot of feel to it. I think people like a quiet thud rather than a high pitched ping when striking a ball. And they like to be able to control the cueball with as sodft a stroke as possible.

It is my opinion that tips are still under-rated by most as to how much effect they have on how a cue "hits". I believe that if someone were to truly do some extensive research into this area that it might revolutionize how we think of cues, construction and hit. Not that a tip is going to turn a Sterling into a Gilbert but what it if it could get much closer?

From what I read about these Milk-Duds and other liquid treated tips it seems as if some are close to the magic recipe. If there really is such a thing.

 

[Flex]

You can put metal in the microwave. You shouldn't but you can. One night at a party we played around with tin foil to see what would produce the coolest effects. Basically the ionized air causes arcs or small lightning bolts between metal points. These flashes can be intense but are instantly gone. Mostly the microwave can get some scoring from the heat but not any permanent damage.

I still wouldn't put metal in the microwave unless I was either playing around or had a very good reason.

Thanks for the tips on the Milk Duds. Has anyone tried this process with Le Pros or similar tips?

The LePro tips apparently are covered with some substance which resists moisture until after installing and shaping the tip. When I soaked one for 24 hours recently, the milk didn't penetrate the tip. So I roughed all tip surfaces with some 40 grit and then resoaked the tip. Worked just fine, and the tip expanded as would be expected. Then I compressed the tip for 24 hours in a C-clamp. (If I were to do it now, I'd use the microwave and oven.) I installed the tip a few days ago and tested it. Plays very similarly to the Elk Master milk dud. Worked like a charm.

Flex

 

[Flex]

Flex, your timing is amazing. I start soaking a tip & then I see this thread! I think I'll go with the old way this time. I'm in no rush & will probably need the oven later anyway!

The real advantage to soaking the tip in the microwave, and then clamping and curing it in the oven, is the time that is saved.

If I were to try to really crank these things out, I'd get a bunch of C-clamps and probably produce, who knows, 50 or 100 of those suckers in an afternoon.

By the way, the fellow who does tips at Chris's in Chicago now offers Milk Duds, and charges $15 for them installed. He's one happy fella now...

Flex

 

[Flex]

interesting, especially I've heard some LePro installed on Viking cues at the facility are considered to be "baked". But since the result is the same I think it does not beat common process of 24hrs soaking/pressing because it is easy to overdo something when dealing with an oven.
Keep experimenting though My first experience with milk duds is closer and closer as my current tip worns out.

Not all that hot, probably somewhere around 110 degrees, maybe a bit more (not really sure as I didn't have a thermometer to check). I think 140 degree hot water coming out of a faucet is way hotter. Imagine what it would be like to play pool in the Death Valley on a warm summer's day Under an unairconditioned tent, of course...


Flex

 

[ragbug74]

In other threads about Milk Duds, someone has mentioned that there is a chemical (protein?) in milk that acts like a glue to hold the fibers of the tip together when soaked, pressed, and dried.

 

[Varney Cues]

What is the magic about using milk ? Will any other liquid work, hotsauce, gravy, soy sauce, etc..

Seriously, is there something in milk in particular or would any liquid work.

thanks,
Ray

Cranberry juice works wonderful too...I think its the acid content.

 

[Flex]

Is it true that elephant urine is used in the production of some laminated tips? Not sure where I heard that one. If true, maybe elephants produce gallons of the stuff, and if tons of tips were to be treated, having a plentiful supply of urine could be important...

Anybody know something about this?

Flex

 

[whitey2]

I remember

I remember a long time ago, a guy that worked in the poolroom
around here (now closed) was raving about some tip that he
had recently bought. It was soaked in elk urine, and I don't
remember the name. It was over 10 years ago.

 

[cigardave]

It was soaked in elk urine...

These tips play especially well at higher elevations... pure effen' magic!!

 

[xidica]

This makes sense. In essence with the proper treatment you should be able to make any piece of leather as hard as a rock. Fossilizing it essentially.

Back in the day I made water buffalo tips so hard that they jumped as well as phenolics.

It would probably be possible to vacuum inject some chemical agents into the tips to make them hard as well similar to what is done to produce Dymondwood.

I think the magic formula people are looking for though is to find one that produces a firm tip with a lot of feel to it. I think people like a quiet thud rather than a high pitched ping when striking a ball. And they like to be able to control the cueball with as sodft a stroke as possible.

It is my opinion that tips are still under-rated by most as to how much effect they have on how a cue "hits". I believe that if someone were to truly do some extensive research into this area that it might revolutionize how we think of cues, construction and hit. Not that a tip is going to turn a Sterling into a Gilbert but what it if it could get much closer?

From what I read about these Milk-Duds and other liquid treated tips it seems as if some are close to the magic recipe. If there really is such a thing.

Off on the tip related note, but as far as I know Chuck Starkey uses some magical process to vacuum seal and place some chemical inside of his flat laminated shafts. I tell you what, no complaints from me

 

[billyjack]

Hello John. You can also soak Triangles in mineral spirits then press them to make whats probably the hardest legal leather tip in existance.

Sounds very interesting Mr. Varney. My 8 ball league considers an 8 on the break as a win, so I'm looking to replace my phenolic with a leather tip for a little more 'grip' on the CB when attempting a 2nd ball break. How long do you need to soak a Triangle? Considering your rep here, I know any info that comes from you is reliable. Thanks for the help.
Bill