Missed Shots - why inexperienced and experienced players miss shots

[BC21]

The two primary reasons for missed shots are poor/faulty stroke delivery and poor/faulty aim (bad guesswork or estimation in the aiming process). For beginners or inexperienced players, I don't believe one of these reasons is anymore prevalent than the other. If you miss a shot, you either didn't deliver the cue as needed or you simply aimed the shot wrong. There's no way to know the culprit, unless the aim was 100% free of guesswork or estimation, then the culprit would've been stroke-related.

For experienced players that have a more consistent stroke, I believe the majority of misses are due to inaccurate aiming, not stroke errors/flaws.

Inconsistent stroke flaws can actually become part of a consistent stroke, meaning a player can have a wonky stroke but eventually become very consistent with it. In that case, whatever specific "flaw" they have is not going to cause a miss. However, that doesn't mean they'll always deliver that stroke perfectly. There might be times when the muscles are more tense than normal, or the player might feel hesitant or timid and decelerate/hold back on the stroke here and there, maybe causing a miss due to not striking the cb accurately.

Pros miss also. Is this because their strokes are flawed on occassion? Not likely, except under very stressful situations. But they can, and do, make mistakes occasionally in their aiming. That's because aiming requires a certain amount of subjective guesswork/estimation, which isn't always 100% spot on.

If pros are subject to these types of aiming errors, the rest of us certainly suffer from the same thing, only at a greater frequency. That's why I believe aiming error is the #1 cause for missed shots among experienced players, from C players to A players.

 

[BC21]

Knowledge, experience, and practice leads to winning. Unfortunately, this little meme is too true, and that's sad...

 

[Oikawa]

For experienced players that have a more consistent stroke, I believe the majority of misses are due to inaccurate aiming, not stroke errors/flaws.

Depends on the type of shot a lot.

For awkward non-routine stances (weird rail-bridge, elevated due to a rail or another ball, mechanical bridge, jump shot, awkward bridge due to obstructing balls, etc.), it is much more likely to miss from stroke/alignment issues instead of aiming issues.

For "normal stance/bridge" shots (not elevated, normal bridge, etc.), it is less common for experienced players to miss by a large amount due to stroke issues.

In general, the more precise the shot (longer distance, bigger table, smaller pockets, thinner cut etc.), the more likely it is for stroke errors to cause a miss. And the more difficult the cut angle, or if you start having uncommon types of sidespin/power combinations, especially with elevation, the more likely it is for inaccurate aiming to cause a miss.

Pros miss also. Is this because their strokes are flawed on occassion? Not likely, except under very stressful situations. But they can, and do, make mistakes occasionally in their aiming. That's because aiming requires a certain amount of subjective guesswork/estimation, which isn't always 100% spot on.

Again, depends on the type of shot a lot. For long straight-ins, they're more likely to miss due to their stroke being off by a little bit (due to pressure typically), than aiming wrong. For tough cuts with weird sidespin, sure, they probably just aimed it slightly wrong.

 

[BC21]

Depends on the type of shot a lot.

For awkward non-routine stances (weird rail-bridge, elevated due to a rail or another ball, mechanical bridge, jump shot, awkward bridge due to obstructing balls, etc.), it is much more likely to miss from stroke/alignment issues instead of aiming issues.

For "normal stance/bridge" shots (not elevated, normal bridge, etc.), it is less common for experienced players to miss by a large amount due to stroke issues.

In general, the more precise the shot (longer distance, bigger table, smaller pockets, thinner cut etc.), the more likely it is for stroke errors to cause a miss. And the more difficult the cut angle, or if you start having uncommon types of sidespin/power combinations, especially with elevation, the more likely it is for inaccurate aiming to cause a miss.


Again, depends on the type of shot a lot. For long straight-ins, they're more likely to miss due to their stroke being off by a little bit (due to pressure typically), than aiming wrong. For tough cuts with weird sidespin, sure, they probably just aimed it slightly wrong.

Good points. I guess my main reason for this thread is to point out how rediculous it is to pin most missed shots on poor/flawed stroke delivery. Many players buy into this belief, even though there is no research to back up that belief.

I actually did a little aiming experiment a few years ago which helped distinguish between stroke error and aiming error misses. I used a beginning player with a horrible stroke. The player missed quite a few shots when the aim point was 100% subjective. But when I started providing objective aim points (pointing to a spot on the ob itself or just outside the edge of the ball), the player's pocketing percentage immediately improved, drastically. Did their stroke suddenly become more consistent?? Of course not. What happened was the aiming process was no longer based on guesswork or estimation.

 

[Poolmanis]

Good points. I guess my main reason for this thread is to point out how rediculous it is to pin most missed shots on poor/flawed stroke delivery. Many players buy into this belief, even though there is no research to back up that belief.

I actually did a little aiming experiment a few years ago which helped distinguish between stroke error and aiming error misses. I used a beginning player with a horrible stroke. The player missed quite a few shots when the aim point was 100% subjective. But when I started providing objective aim points (pointing to a spot on the ob itself or just outside the edge of the ball), the player's pocketing percentage immediately improved, drastically. Did their stroke suddenly become more consistent?? Of course not. What happened was the aiming process was no longer based on guesswork or estimation.

YES! I have been saying this years and nobody listen! (except Tinman also says stroke mechanics are overrated!) They matter but mostly we miss because we estimate something wrong at aiming..

 

[Bob Jewett]

YES! I have been saying this years and nobody listen! (except Tinman also says stroke mechanics are overrated!) They matter but mostly we miss because we estimate something wrong at aiming..

When you say, "mostly we miss", you are not talking about the majority of pool players. The majority -- which play under 400 FargoRate -- often miss because of bad mechanics. And they often miss because they can't aim well. And I would say that if they don't fix their mechanics, they will have a harder time learning to aim.

I think that you and Tin Man are both referring to players who have already developed fairly good fundamentals.

 

[bbb]

i watch the cue ball contact the object ball when i shoot
i can tell you that the overwhelming majority of my misses are from not hitting the object ball where i wanted to
i can tell as the cue ball leaves the tip its heading in the wrong direction and/or i can tell at contact
my home table has 4.25 pockets
my misses that are very close when it seems i did hit where i wanted to
i always blamed my stroke being a tad off
but may be it was my aim was a hair off the correct target and it was the aim that got me close but no cigar not the stroke
i need to think about that more

 

[BC21]

i watch the cue ball contact the object ball when i shoot
i can tell you that the overwhelming majority of my misses are from not hitting the object ball where i wanted to
i can tell as the cue ball leaves the tip its heading in the wrong direction and/or i can tell at contact
my home table has 4.25 pockets
my misses that are very close when it seems i did hit where i wanted to
i always blamed my stroke being a tad off
but may be it was my aim was a hair off the correct target and it was the aim that got me close but no cigar not the stroke
i need to think about that more

It could simply be your alignment. Let's say your cue delivery/stroke is good and consistent, and let's say your aiming is excellent. This combination should result in very consistent play, where missing a shot is a rare occurrence.

But what happens if you don't get your body/stance properly aligned for the shot? That nice stroke and accurate aim won't create the best results. I'm talking about stepping into the shot and knowing exactly where the shot line crosses in reference to your feet, head, and upper body. If any of that stuff is off a little, your stroke has a good chance of being off a little also, mainly during the delivery of that final stroke.

I think it works like this...

We consciously apply practice strokes before pulling the trigger. Part of this conscious process involves making sure that everything looks and feels right, in accordance with the aim line or aim point you chose as a reference to build your stance around. If you step in or align your body a little off from this reference, your conscious practice strokes might be perfectly in reference to your aim point/line, but if your body, head, and feet are a touch off, your subconscious will fix that final delivery stroke to match your body, not your aim or conscious practice strokes.

 

[bbb]

It could simply be your alignment. Let's say your cue delivery/stroke is good and consistent, and let's say your aiming is excellent. This combination should result in very consistent play, where missing a shot is a rare occurrence.

But what happens if you don't get your body/stance properly aligned for the shot? That nice stroke and accurate aim won't create the best results. I'm talking about stepping into the shot and knowing exactly where the shot line crosses in reference to your feet, head, and upper body. If any of that stuff is off a little, your stroke has a good chance of being off a little also, mainly during the delivery of that final stroke.

I think it works like this...

We consciously apply practice strokes before pulling the trigger. Part of this conscious process involves making sure that everything looks and feels right, in accordance with the aim line or aim point you chose as a reference to build your stance around. If you step in or align your body a little off from this reference, your conscious practice strokes might be perfectly in reference to your aim point/line, but if your body, head, and feet are a touch off, your subconscious will fix that final delivery stroke to match your body, not your aim or conscious practice strokes.

what happens on the shots where your normal stance is altered by the table?
players still make those shots
i think players (me) develop a kinesthetic feel of their arm to their body and the look of the cue past their face and the look down the cue to tell them if they are aligned to hit the target
jmho
icbw

 

[David in FL]

I find that I generally miss due to my head position during the stroke.



When I miss, it's often up my ass!

 

[BC21]

what happens on the shots where your normal stance is altered by the table?
players still make those shots
i think players (me) develop a kinesthetic feel of their arm to their body and the look of the cue past their face and the look down the cue to tell them if they are aligned to hit the target
jmho
icbw

Absolutely. I mean, we can direct the cue from behind our backs, and we can stand in awkward positions on occasion and still stroke the cue along the proper line. But if you used these awkward stances on every shot for a whole set, you would definitively miss a lot more shots than normal.

The same thing can be said of golf. A consistently reliable golf swing involves a consistent stance and lots of trained/developed muscle memory. Sure, once the golfer develops a good feel for all of this, performing a swing from an unusual or awkward stance every now and then can easily be done. But there's no way that golfer could play an entire round with their normal accuracy and consistency if they were to play every shot from an awkward stance.

 

[bbb]

Absolutely. I mean, we can direct the cue from behind our backs, and we can stand in awkward positions on occasion and still stroke the cue along the proper line. But if you used these awkward stances on every shot for a whole set, you would definitively miss a lot more shots than normal.

The same thing can be said of golf. A consistently reliable golf swing involves a consistent stance and lots of trained/developed muscle memory. Sure, once the golfer develops a good feel for all of this, performing a swing from an unusual or awkward stance every now and then can easily be done. But there's no way that golfer could play an entire round with their normal accuracy and consistency if they were to play every shot from an awkward stance.

Makes sense

 

[garczar]

I've seen a LOT of great players, some champions, in both pool and golf that have far from ideal mechanics but they have grooved them and own it. That's all that matters.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I've seen a LOT of great players, some champions, in both pool and golf that have far from ideal mechanics but they have grooved them and own it. That's all that matters.

I think that if a player starts with good fundamentals, they have a much better chance to rise in the game faster and farther than if they are always fighting their "charming idiosyncrasies".

I think the "just do your own thing, no matter how wonky" is why the US is no longer a leader in pool.

 

[BC21]

I've seen a LOT of great players, some champions, in both pool and golf that have far from ideal mechanics but they have grooved them and own it. That's all that matters.

You're right. Plenty of players have proved it. But, as Bob points out, it would likely be a longer road to travel for anyone looking to be a decent player.

 

[BC21]

I think that if a player starts with good fundamentals, they have a much better chance to rise in the game faster and farther than if they are always fighting their "charming idiosyncrasies".

I think the "just do your own thing, no matter how wonky" is why the US is no longer a leader in pool.

I agree 100%.

 

[garczar]

I think that if a player starts with good fundamentals, they have a much better chance to rise in the game faster and farther than if they are always fighting their "charming idiosyncrasies".

I think the "just do your own thing, no matter how wonky" is why the US is no longer a leader in pool.

hate to sound like a broken record but its the barbox that is the root issue. no other country plays on them and 90% of US pool is. You get people on 9fts and their mechanics will improve.

 

[BC21]

hate to sound like a broken record but its the barbox that is the root issue. no other country plays on them and 90% of US pool is. You get people on 9fts and their mechanics will improve.

Honestly, most shots we face on a 9ft are exactly the same as on a 7ft, requiring no additional accuracy or skill. There are some exceptions, but not many. Some shots are harder to reach on a 9ft, and of course that extra 2ft comes into play on a shot here and there, which requires more accuracy, but it's just every now and then, mainly when your opponent plays a safety and leaves you long, or when you play poor position and leave yourself too long.

I hear so many players say they like to practice on the 9ft before playing a bar table match. They believe it tunes up their accuracy or whatever. Then I watch them go to a barbox and miss the same shots they miss on the 9ft. Lol.

The truth is, there's really just a handful of shots that come up on a 9ft table that a player won't face on a 7ft table, simply because the distance isn't there. Other than those few shots, there isn't any added benefit that a player is going to get on a 9ft that he or she can't get on a 7ft.

 

[Oikawa]

Honestly, most shots we face on a 9ft are exactly the same as on a 7ft, requiring no additional accuracy or skill. There are some exceptions, but not many. Some shots are harder to reach on a 9ft, and of course that extra 2ft comes into play on a shot here and there, which requires more accuracy, but it's just every now and then, mainly when your opponent plays a safety and leaves you long, or when you play poor position and leave yourself too long.

It does add up a lot in the long run, even if its just that 2ft difference. Especially with the average bar box having more forgiving pockets than 9ft tables.

I hear so many players say they like to practice on the 9ft before playing a bar table match.

I have a similar habit of practicing on Kaisa tables sometimes before pool matches. Kaisa = game played on super tight tables in Finland:

It really does make pool feel much easier afterwards, at least for a while

The truth is, there's really just a handful of shots that come up on a 9ft table that a player won't face on a 7ft table, simply because the distance isn't there. Other than those few shots, there isn't any added benefit that a player is going to get on a 9ft that he or she can't get on a 7ft.

The added benefit is the overall more accurate shotmaking needed over the long run. Not new shots, just slightly harder shots on average so you miss more if your technique isn't as solid. It's not a massive difference, but it's there.

 

[BC21]

It does add up a lot in the long run, even if its just that 2ft difference. Especially with the average bar box having more forgiving pockets than 9ft tables.



I have a similar habit of practicing on Kaisa tables sometimes before pool matches. Kaisa = game played on super tight tables in Finland:

View attachment 765181

It really does make pool feel much easier afterwards, at least for a while



The added benefit is the overall more accurate shotmaking needed over the long run. Not new shots, just slightly harder shots on average so you miss more if your technique isn't as solid. It's not a massive difference, but it's there.

It's definitely beneficial to practice on tighter pockets, as long as it's not so difficult that you get frustrated or bored due to lack of pocketing balls. That would not be a good practice session.

I agree that in the long run, over time, practice and play on a 9ft does help with certain shots. Eventually, I suppose, after enough hours upon hours of playing, you'll have faced those few shots (those that aren't seen on a bar box) enough times to be more accurate and consistent with them.

As far as the pockets being more forgiving, that's not necessarily true with Diamond tables. All standard diamond barboxes have 4.5" pockets, same cut and width of 9ft diamond tables. And many have the same shelf size also, which means the pockets play exactly the same, whether it's a 7ft or 9ft table.

The only difference then is distance, and also the amount of space there is to work with. For example, playing 8ball on a 9ft is much different than playing 8ball on a barbox, when it comes to position play at least. So it's not smart to practice 8ball on a big table just before a small table match.