Modified ghost to better define a players rating?

Junkyarddog

Junkyarddog

Kelly
Silver Member
I've been reading alot of posts describing a players rating based on play against the ghost. I think there may be a better way to do it instead of just playing the ghost with BIH. Playing the ghost is based on 100% offense and doesn't account for defensive play and controlling the table. Defensive play is a very large part of being a solid player. The break is also one of the most important shots in the game and just smacking the balls as hard as you can with no control isn't right either. What do you guys think of something like this please chime in what levels or rules you think would work as well.

Races to 7 playing a modified ghost as follows
  • No ball in hand after the break
  • 1 pushout allowed
  • If player plays a safety that cannot make a legal hit in 1 rail or less player gets ball in hand and continues shooting.
  • any safety that results in a possible good hit in 1 rail or less is a win for ghost.
    Note: possible means possible by a high level player this does not mean if you can do it or not.
  • any ball missed is a win for ghost
  • scratch on the break is a win for ghost

I will let everyone else chime in on what races would determine skill or if you think this is just a stupid idea feel free to post you won't hurt my feelings.
 
This seems like a good idea to make the ghost more realistic, but I'm curious how the pushouts work. Are you supposed to push out to a hard shot, and how do you determine if the ghost would hand it back to you? I think dodging this question is the reason the regular ghost gives you ball-in-hand.
 
Iv always tried to use this for myself.

No ball in hand after break
9 ball spots on break
Any scratch or dry brake is a win for the ghost.

Now its very possible that after getting spanked for a couple runs that I might adjust these rules to increase my win percentage. :rolleyes:
 
Junkyarddog said:
I've been reading alot of posts describing a players rating based on play against the ghost. I think there may be a better way to do it instead of just playing the ghost with BIH. Playing the ghost is based on 100% offense and doesn't account for defensive play and controlling the table. Defensive play is a very large part of being a solid player. The break is also one of the most important shots in the game and just smacking the balls as hard as you can with no control isn't right either. What do you guys think of something like this please chime in what levels or rules you think would work as well.

Races to 7 playing a modified ghost as follows
  • No ball in hand after the break
  • 1 pushout allowed
  • If player plays a safety that cannot make a legal hit in 1 rail or less player gets ball in hand and continues shooting.
  • any safety that results in a possible good hit in 1 rail or less is a win for ghost.
    Note: possible means possible by a high level player this does not mean if you can do it or not.
  • any ball missed is a win for ghost
  • scratch on the break is a win for ghost

I will let everyone else chime in on what races would determine skill or if you think this is just a stupid idea feel free to post you won't hurt my feelings.
Click to expand...

Personally, I would eliminate your first two (no ball in hand and push out rule) and that is pretty much how I play it to incorporate defense.

However, I don't count nine's on the break as a win and I don't count early combo's on the nine as a win. I must run out the remainder of the rack for a win. However, I also don't count a scratch on the break as a loss either.
 
When I play the ghost, I play one of three different ways. Just depends on the day.

1) regular ghost, spotting myself a ball or two... because I can't win without it.

2) regular ghost but able to play safe. If I can 100% and force a kick, I get ball in hand.

3) regular ghost. If I can play off the break without BIH, and run out, I get two games for that rack.

Pretty much, I suck. But I'm creative and find ways to win and feel better about sucking. :)
 
For what it's worth, I rate my own game by playing a slightly modified game of straight pool to 150 against Lefty.

Lefty is me playing left-handed. Lefty is weaker than me, so he plays more defensively and exploits the sides of the table I don't like to play in for his safeties. I, on the other hand (pun intended), play more aggressively and, if I have to play safe, exploit my better cueball control to force Lefty to make shots he doesn't like to do.

For the modified straight pool rules, it's the same as a regular game of straight pool, with the following rules added:

- The opening break is performed by me (Righty).
- A successful safety shot counts as one point, but the inning ends normally.
- A successful safety means Lefty fails to pocket the called ball, or fouls, or makes a successful safety after my safety, or I after his.
- Shots must be fully called (which balls do what, what rails, etc...). "Ducks" (unintentional successful shots) count as fouls.

Lefty and I count the points and the innings on the scoreboard. After the game, I drop the schizophrenia act and calculate my average points-per-inning score for left hand and right hand, and the average score for both hands, which is my personal rating. Currently, I average about 6.

I find my method quite thorough in evaluating me as a player. Lefty is quite a different player from Righty, as he's generally weaker, doesn't play the same sides of the table, and so tries to resolve the game differently as a result. Points awarded to successful safety shots make them an integral (and desirable) part of the game to be evaluated. Finally, 150 points ensure the game ends quickly with the help of safety points, but is still long enough to account for a temporary bout of unusually low or high performance. It does require honesty with yourself though, so for instance, Lefty really should try to play for himself, not leave a shot for Righty.

Give it a try, it's a fun method, and you can train alone with it too :)
 
cleary said:
When I play the ghost, I play one of three different ways. Just depends on the day.

1) regular ghost, spotting myself a ball or two... because I can't win without it.

2) regular ghost but able to play safe. If I can 100% and force a kick, I get ball in hand.

3) regular ghost. If I can play off the break without BIH, and run out, I get two games for that rack.

Pretty much, I suck. But I'm creative and find ways to win and feel better about sucking. :)
Click to expand...

I like that ghost game. #3 I'll give it a try. Johnnyt
 
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its good for rating yourself and to see your improvements in the game.

if you want to have a fairly accurate way to rate nine ball against another shooter then you need to be more precise.

how about you break and nothing counts but doesnt get spotted and no ball in hand,and you shoot until you miss. count the balls you make and do a run of games say 50 and take an average. this gives a good estimate of the average balls you run and can gauge that against another players average.
also this takes somewhat you breaking ability into it as with no ball in hand you must keep the cue ball for a shot at the one.
 
How about, instead of ball in hand, on the first shot after the break, you can make any ball on the table to get shape on the lowest ball. If you make that ball, it spots up and you continue your run.

As for the safety part, its unlikely that anyone can regularly leave a safety with no one rail options, especially when you take into account masse-kicks, jump-kicks, and kick-jumps. It just happens that multiple rail kicks are often easier than one railers. I'd say good safety play is so difficult to accurately judge, it would probably be better to have a separate exercise to rate safety play.

In the future I can imagine pros saying "I murdered the 15 ball ghost and then proceeded to 20-foul him."
 
Forget trying to make a game with the ghost. The ghost is such a nit. He never wants to play for anything, even when he's got the best of it. Better to wait it out for a real game. :)
 
[*]1 pushout allowed
[/LIST]


Hi,
I don't think you can push against the ghost and remain objective. Just like calling the OB 100% and take BIH.

Regular game as many times as possible to realize an accurate number. Note the totals from multiple sets and keep a running average.

Long green to Fastolfe! I can't wait to school lefty!
 
In response to the push out my thinking was that if you push out as you would against another player it should give you the opportunity to play safe or make a tough shot. My thoughts are that the ghost doesn't miss so he shouldn't foul on the first shot if you didn't make a ball. I think collectivley we can come up with a much better rating system for determining a players skill. Hopefully, with everyones input we can have a more defined rating since there seems to be a question every week on how to determine what speed you play.
 
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Just had another thought. How about doing something like this

  • If you make a ball on the break you get ball in hand
  • If you don't make a ball on the break you don't get ball in hand
 
I really think the ghost is what it is…an offensive game only. It is very hard to put defense into it. If you can beat the 9-ball ghost more than 50% of the time its time to move to the 10-ball ghost, 12-ball ghost, and then 15-ball ghost. If you get so you can beat all them and practice defensive drills, kicking, and jumping you need to move on to tournaments and/or matching up…because you're a monster. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
I really think the ghost is what it is…an offensive game only. It is very hard to put defense into it. If you can beat the 9-ball ghost more than 50% of the time its time to move to the 10-ball ghost, 12-ball ghost, and then 15-ball ghost. If you get so you can beat all them and practice defensive drills, kicking, and jumping you need to move on to tournaments and/or matching up…because you're a monster. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

If you are beating the 15 ball ghost, who needs defense?
 
full rack method

I prefer this. You shoot with markers on the top head diamond spot and shoot 10 straight pool racks. It doesnt matter wether you dry break or not the goal is to after the break then run out ALL balls no matter what. Each time you succesfully run out all 15 balls you are awarded a one win spot. Moving the spot to the left or the right is your choice. If you fail to pocket ANY shot then that rack is over and you must rerack and than move the second spot to the lose spot side. Once your 10 racks are over pay close attention to where the winning marker is on the table and the losing one. This is one way to determine anyones real rating. Anyone who can regularly do a consistant run 1/3 of the 10 racks, 3 out of 10 racks, that is a 33% run percentage is well on their way. Once it gets to where a player can run out at least 6 or more racks in the 10 rack set is where this game gets real interesting.
 
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