More One Pocket Breaks and First Shots

[Thecoats]

Well Joey, I'm not as specific as I ought to be probably, and I certainly wouldn't claim to have confirmed anything, but I've noticed that if there's a gap in the last row, the 15 tends to sell out. I think that may be because if there is a gap in the last row, there's a good chance that the 15 is out towards the opponent's pocket more than it should be? Anyway, it's something I look for when breaking.

I usually break 3-4" off the rail to try and prevent the 15 from coming out too far also. I notice that many good one pocket players go out even further but I'm not confident that I can thin the head ball if I go out much further.

I had a good breaking day on Friday in a 3 hour session but I had trouble getting the cue ball to land ideally on the rail as in Pat's illustration. Any tips on getting whitey up table better? I was a full diamond lower in general and not quite to the rail. Let me guess, hit it harder?

Alex,

How far the cue ball gets back up the side rail is a function of two things:

- How hard you hit the ball when break.
- How thick or think you hit the head ball.

I think conditions have a lot to do with how much the opponents corner ball squirts out, if it is real dry the table might be a little more lively and have a tendency to squirt that ball out quicker. I generally try to hit the rack a full on the second ball as I can get away with to try and make a ball in my hole on the break. Moving in from the rail generally helps to shorten that angle you hit the head ball with which will lessen the distance the opponents corner ball travels to their pocket and does not take as much speed off the cue ball so it will travel further up the rail.

-don

 

[Patrick Johnson]

And, by the way, what can your opponent do from here? I'd probably sell out trying to tread water, like this.

pj
chgo

CueTable Help

 

[gulfportdoc]

And, by the way, what can your opponent do from here?

The 4 can be banked into your hole, or hard into the stack, trying to drive balls to your hole. The trick there is to get the CB frozen onto the head rail, leaving a long shot.

Otherwise an intentional safety may be the smartest move. Lag the CB to the head rail, back to behind the 11 or 12.

Doc

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

And, by the way, what can your opponent do from here? I'd probably sell out trying to tread water, like this.

pj
chgo

CueTable Help

Just jack up, shoot the four up table and stun the cue ball back behind the 11. Simple.

Sorry, meant the two, shoot the two and stun the cue ball back behind the 11.

 

[JoeyA]

I see it. I tried your break today and like it a lot. Here's a typical outcome so you can see why.

Not only does it not move the 15 much, it also moves more balls the other way. The cue ball doesn't come as far uptable, but that's good because there are more balls visible over the top of the rack and less below it.

What's not to like? You should sell tips like this, Joey.

pj
chgo

CueTable Help

Glad you like the break Pat. It's my main break and works most of the time but I'm always looking to improve.

Do you think the forum is ready for your TOP TEN MYTHS OF POOL?

JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

How do I see it?

On this page you will see the words : Private Messages
You just have to click on it and then you can either send PM's or receive and read the ones that have been sent to you.

Next to it is the number of semi-private messages you have received from other AZers. It is basically the forum's own INTERNAL semi-private email service. You can communicate with other AZers without giving your personal email address. These Private Messages are not seen by anyone except the the sender and the receiver and possibly the administrators or moderators but I doubt even if they do have the ability that they would waste their time reading the private messages.

If someone says they are sending you some green they are not talking about money. (REP points)

JoeyA

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The 4 can be banked into your hole, or hard into the stack, trying to drive balls to your hole. The trick there is to get the CB frozen onto the head rail, leaving a long shot.

Otherwise an intentional safety may be the smartest move. Lag the CB to the head rail, back to behind the 11 or 12.

Doc

Doc, the problem I see with that 4-ball shot is getting the cue ball to the head rail with it frozen to the side rail to begin with and the 2-ball in the way of a follow shot. Maybe my imagination just isn't up to it. What am I missing?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Glad you like the break Pat. It's my main break and works most of the time but I'm always looking to improve.

Do you think the forum is ready for your TOP TEN MYTHS OF POOL?

JoeyA

I've been practicing your break, Joey, learning exactly how thick to hit the head ball. I used it in a match tonight with devastating effect. Most breaks were only slight improvements over a break from the side rail, but about one in three (the ones where I got just the right amount of the head ball) were killer, with the far side row of balls spreading toward my pocket and the near side row staying basically in place. This has to be worth at least a ball when it works.

The only thing I don't like is that the cue ball hits the foot rail closer to my pocket - sometimes uncomfortably close. I think I'll keep this one anyway.

pj
chgo

 

[JoeyA]

Hi JoeyA,

I've analyzed this exact problem. I don't much like 1-pocket but I enjoy studying those break shots.

The "selling out" of the 15 ball is determined by 2 tracks of connected balls and the spaces between them.
Track A is 3, 6, 10, 15.
Track B is 3, 5, 9, 14, 15.

If everything is completely tight then Track A with 4 direct line balls moves faster than Track B - the 15 goes towards the end rail.

If Track A is tight and Track B is loose - the 15 goes towards the end rail.

If Track A and Track B is loose - the 15 doesn't really move at all.

If Track A is loose and Track B is tight - the 15 moves towards the side rail

There you go, free of charge

Andy

that's pretty specific. Thanks, I will check this out.
joeyA

 

[alinco]

that's pretty specific. Thanks, I will check this out.
joeyA

Joey,

Let me know how that works out.

I forgot to mention that when I break, I break from the side rail and don't even hit the 1 ball. I'm aiming at the 3 as if I were cutting it into my pocket. I make the 11 in my pocket more than 50% of the time when all 15 balls are frozen.

Andy

 

[JoeyA]

Joey,

Let me know how that works out.

I forgot to mention that when I break, I break from the side rail and don't even hit the 1 ball. I'm aiming at the 3 as if I were cutting it into my pocket. I make the 11 in my pocket more than 50% of the time when all 15 balls are frozen.

Andy

I can make the end ball on my side of the pocket as well doing almost the same thing but it seems that the 15 ball comes out and leaves my opponent a shot and while its nice to make a ball on the break and run out , it is unpleasant to leave your opponent a shot to run out if you don't sink the 11 ball. Also the balls don't seem to spread as well FWIW.

And for Pat, when you are breaking from the "new" position of the cue ball you might try two other things one of which Earl Heisler was famous for. Put low inside English on the cue ball or a little rolling inside English. If your cue ball is hitting close to the pocket you may be able to "straighten" it as it comes off of the rail.

My new OB1 shaft ala Earl Strickland and Mike Gulyassy performed nicely as I broke even with a tough opponent the first time using it. I want to play under more pressure with it as well as practice with it before giving a report.

JoeyA

 

[gulfportdoc]

Doc, the problem I see with that 4-ball shot is getting the cue ball to the head rail with it frozen to the side rail to begin with and the 2-ball in the way of a follow shot. Maybe my imagination just isn't up to it. What am I missing?

That's true, Patrick. I don't like the shot. I prefer the lag safety. However if the CB can pass the 2 ball after banking the 4, then it's a good agressive shot. Speed is real important to get the CB up to the head rail. I the CB can't pass the deuce, then the shot is too dangerous.

Doc

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I can make the end ball on my side of the pocket as well doing almost the same thing but it seems that the 15 ball comes out and leaves my opponent a shot and while its nice to make a ball on the break and run out , it is unpleasant to leave your opponent a shot to run out if you don't sink the 11 ball. Also the balls don't seem to spread as well FWIW.

And for Pat, when you are breaking from the "new" position of the cue ball you might try two other things one of which Earl Heisler was famous for. Put low inside English on the cue ball or a little rolling inside English. If your cue ball is hitting close to the pocket you may be able to "straighten" it as it comes off of the rail.

My new OB1 shaft ala Earl Strickland and Mike Gulyassy performed nicely as I broke even with a tough opponent the first time using it. I want to play under more pressure with it as well as practice with it before giving a report.

JoeyA

"And for Pat, when you are breaking from the "new" position of the cue ball you might try two other things one of which Earl Heisler was famous for. Put low inside English on the cue ball or a little rolling inside English. If your cue ball is hitting close to the pocket you may be able to "straighten" it as it comes off of the rail."

Yeah, I have no problem straightening it. It just makes me nervous hitting so much closer to the pocket.

pj
chgo