Mosconi Cup rack rules?

A

Ak Guy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is the 9 ball sitting on the spot for all the Cup racks? If it is why would the U.S. Team agree to that? At the very least when playing in America it should be a traditional rack with the 1 ball on the spot.

The U.S. team is already at a disadvantage due to the tremendous talent pool the Euro team has to pick from. Just look at all the tournament titles the Euro players have under their belt, then compare that to the current U.S. players. Who besides Shane does much winning in big tournaments?

With the short race and racking format Team Europe could probably field 2 to teams.

Any way, go Team America! Put it to them, beat them down and look good doing it!
 
To be honest, more than anything, the race to five format is what gives Team USA a good shot.

Also, use of the break box would help Team USA a lot, as, in my opinion, Shane and Mike Dechaine are the two best breakers in the world from the break box.
 
Ak Guy said:
Is the 9 ball sitting on the spot for all the Cup racks? If it is why would the U.S. Team agree to that? ...
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One on the spot with a tight rack is horribly boring. The last thing Matchroom wants is a boring event.
 
I agree!

sjm said:
To be honest, more than anything, the race to five format is what gives Team USA a good shot.

Also, use of the break box would help Team USA a lot, as, in my opinion, Shane and Mike Dechaine are the two best breakers in the world from the break box.
Click to expand...

Through Ko Pin in there and the break box trifecta is complete.
 
Another question?

Bob Jewett said:
The automatic wing ball.
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Wouldn't you rather see the automatic wing ball so that most of the games start with some sort of offence rather than a push out, or a bunch of cluster or a safety battle at the beginning of every game?

One Pocket is my favorite game, but I don't want 9 Ball or 10 Ball to start that way?
 
Bob Jewett said:
One on the spot with a tight rack is horribly boring. The last thing Matchroom wants is a boring event.
Click to expand...

While streamed pool in the US has "boring" down to a science with its racking arguments, Matchroom is the only event producer in pool whose events are never boring. Their formula is not so complicated.

1. Neutral racker utilized, breaker allowed to inspect the rack but no re-racks
2. Shot clock in use in all matches
3. Stream match starts very shortly after previous match concludes, little downtime
4. Short race format in use

This ensures that matches are exciting and keep moving along, addressing the needs of viewers who purchase their product more than the needs of players. Thank heaven for Matchroom.
 
Ak Guy said:
Is the 9 ball sitting on the spot for all the Cup racks? If it is why would the U.S. Team agree to that? At the very least when playing in America it should be a traditional rack with the 1 ball on the spot.

...
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I was watching the fairly new Rodney Morris instructional video the other day, Rocket's Science. Here is what he had to say about it:

To paraphrase, Rodney indicated in the several years he played, the US team won every time. The 1-ball was on the spot, the breaker would pocket a ball and run-out consistently. So it came down to "whoever blinked first lost." In those years, it was always Europe who blinked first. The perception was that the Americans had way more heart. Someone from MatchRoom came to Johnny Archer and asked "what can we do to help Europe win?" So they came up with the idea of putting the 9 on the spot since that is how the Europe tour was doing it. Johnny was like, yeah, whatever you gotta do. After team America played that way, they didn't like it much. There wasn't a lot of consistency between the American players on where they would break from, the break speed, etc. The 9 has been on the spot ever since.
 
Ak Guy said:
Is the 9 ball sitting on the spot for all the Cup racks? If it is why would the U.S. Team agree to that?
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It's an invitational tournament paying $10k each to the losing team and $20k each to the winning team.
There is nothing to agree or disagree on. Matchpoint pays, Matchpoint makes the rules.

Regards, Dave
 
Sounds good, but...,

pab said:
I was watching the fairly new Rodney Morris instructional video the other day, Rocket's Science. Here is what he had to say about it:

To paraphrase, Rodney indicated in the several years he played, the US team won every time. The 1-ball was on the spot, the breaker would pocket a ball and run-out consistently. So it came down to "whoever blinked first lost." In those years, it was always Europe who blinked first. The perception was that the Americans had way more heart. Someone from MatchRoom came to Johnny Archer and asked "what can we do to help Europe win?" So they came up with the idea of putting the 9 on the spot since that is how the Europe tour was doing it. Johnny was like, yeah, whatever you gotta do. After team America played that way, they didn't like it much. There wasn't a lot of consistency between the American players on where they would break from, the break speed, etc. The 9 has been on the spot ever since.
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The story sounds legit, but that's not way the USA cant win. We just don't have enough winners on the team. Lots of good players in the arenas that they compete in, but they don't or cant compete on the international stage, they don't really stay in action and they don't seem to be focused on the game.
 
King T said:
The story sounds legit, but that's not way the USA cant win. We just don't have enough winners on the team. Lots of good players in the arenas that they compete in, but they don't or cant compete on the international stage, they don't really stay in action and they don't seem to be focused on the game.
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My reply was focused more on answering the poster's original question as to "why" the 9-ball was on the spot - or rather, how that came to be. I wouldn't disagree with your assessment about why team USA hasn't been winning, but I did have a high-level conversation with Mark Wilson about a month after last year's cup. I think he has a pretty good handle on things as the coach and is making progress with the team. I think we'll continue to see that progress this year. Another thing Rodney mentioned is that we haven't had enough people on our team that that Europe fears. I think that will change this year too. Even if we don't win, I feel pretty good that it will be interesting/entertaining.
 
Bottom line is the Euros play better as a TEAM.. Where the 9 goes,IMO, is freakin' irrelevant.
 
sjm said:
While streamed pool in the US has "boring" down to a science with its racking arguments, Matchroom is the only event producer in pool whose events are never boring. Their formula is not so complicated.

1. Neutral racker utilized, breaker allowed to inspect the rack but no re-racks
2. Shot clock in use in all matches
3. Stream match starts very shortly after previous match concludes, little downtime
4. Short race format in use

This ensures that matches are exciting and keep moving along, addressing the needs of viewers who purchase their product more than the needs of players. Thank heaven for Matchroom.
Click to expand...

Hear hear (or is it here here?). And most every major event in the US does exactly the opposite on every point.
 
garczar said:
Bottom line is the Euros play better as a TEAM.. Where the 9 goes,IMO, is freakin' irrelevant.
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I know this has become common wisdom, but what does it mean? The Americans miss more balls. Is it because they're not besties like the Euros? How do we know?
 
BRussell said:
I know this has become common wisdom, but what does it mean? The Americans miss more balls. Is it because they're not besties like the Euros? How do we know?
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Having Rodney back will help. Mike Dechaine is a complete douchebag . I know two U.S. players that don't like being in same room with him. BillyThorpe or Shane McMinn have just as much heart and are WAAAAY better in a team format. Ladbrokes has the Euros a 4-to-9 favorite. They're probably right.
 
Got it!

pab said:
My reply was focused more on answering the poster's original question as to "why" the 9-ball was on the spot - or rather, how that came to be. I wouldn't disagree with your assessment about why team USA hasn't been winning, but I did have a high-level conversation with Mark Wilson about a month after last year's cup. I think he has a pretty good handle on things as the coach and is making progress with the team. I think we'll continue to see that progress this year. Another thing Rodney mentioned is that we haven't had enough people on our team that that Europe fears. I think that will change this year too. Even if we don't win, I feel pretty good that it will be interesting/entertaining.
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I'm pulling for them, wont miss a match
 
Thanks guys

If true and I don't know, I certainly was not aware of Archer's involvement in the rule change. Can you picture Team Europe trying to help Team America win more often?

Which is kind of the point of my post. Level the field a bit and put the 1 Ball on the spot when playing in America and see how it goes. Obviously rules can be changed.

How many times did Team America win after the 9 Ball started racking on the spot?
 
Ak Guy said:
If true and I don't know, I certainly was not aware of Archer's involvement in the rule change. Can you picture Team Europe trying to help Team America win more often?

Which is kind of the point of my post. Level the field a bit and put the 1 Ball on the spot when playing in America and see how it goes. Obviously rules can be changed.

How many times did Team America win after the 9 Ball started racking on the spot?
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These are the years that Rodney was in the cup (according to Wikipedia) and who the winning team was. The 9-ball on the spot rule went into effect in 2007:

2003 - USA
2004 - USA
2005 - USA
2006 - Tied
2007 - Europe
2008 - Europe
2010 - Europe
2011 - Europe
2013 - Europe
 
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