Mosconi Cup Stats -- Career Records for Players on 2023 Teams

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AtLarge

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The 2023 Moscni Cup starts just two weeks from today. So, again this year, I am posting the career Mosconi-Cup records of this year's players. The combined records for each player were compiled from the yearly match results shown on Wikipedia, from matchroompool.com archives, and from my own records The career records of everyone who has ever played on either team can be found here: https://forums.azbilliards.com/thre...er-played-on-either-team.464772/#post-6028857

Team USA will enter the event with a combined 29 years of Cup experience, with 55% (16 years) of that in Van Boening. Team Europe has 23 years of Cup experience, with Shaw the most experienced at 7 years. The only rookie this year is on Team USA. Team Europe's roster this year is the same as last year's.

Method 1. Under this method, I counted a full win or loss for each player in each match (i.e., not splitting the point into fifths or sixths for teams matches, or thirds for trebles matches, or halves for doubles matches). So these numbers essentially answer the question: "In how many winning and losing matches has each player been involved?" [Note that a record like 16-27 means 16 wins and 27 losses, not 16 wins out of 27 matches.]

Team USA​
• Shane Van Boening (16 yrs. -- 2007-2022) ..... 16-27 singles, 21-23 doubles, 8-8 teams, 45-58 total (winning percentage of 44%)​
• Skyler Woodward (8 yrs. -- 2015-2022) ..... 9-6 singles, 11-15 doubles, 5-3 teams, 25-24 total (51%)​
• Tyler Styer (4 yrs. -- 2018-2019, 2021-2022) ..... 2-5 singles, 6-4 doubles, 3-1 teams, 11-10 total (52%)​
• Fedor Gorst (1 yr. -- 2020, on Team Europe) ..... 1-0 singles, 1-1 doubles, 0-1 teams, 2-2 total (50%)​
• Shane Wolford (0 yrs. -- rookie)​
​
• Team USA Total (29 yrs.) ..... 28-38 singles, 39-43 doubles, 16-13 teams, 83-94 total (47%)​
​
Team Europe​
• Jayson Shaw (7 yrs. -- 2016-2022) ..... 13-6 singles, 11-8 doubles, 3-4 teams, 27-18 total (60%)​
• Albin Ouschan (6 yrs. -- 2015-2016, 2018, 2020-2022) ..... 5-3 singles, 12-6 doubles, 2-4 teams, 19-13 total (59%)​
• Joshua Filler (5 yrs. -- 2017, 2019-2022) ..... 10-3 singles, 9-3 doubles, 1-4 teams, 20-10 total (67%)​
• David Alcaide (4 yrs. -- 2006, 2017, 2021-2022) ..... 5-1 singles, 7-4 doubles, 1-1 trebles, 1-4 teams, 14-10 total (58%)​
• Francisco Sanchez-Ruiz (1 yr. -- 2022) ..... 0-1 singles, 2-1 doubles, 0-1 teams, 2-3 total (40%)​
​
• Team Europe Total (23 yrs.) ..... 33-14 singles, 41-22 doubles, 1-1 trebles, 7-17 teams, 82-54 total (60%)​


Method 2. Another way of looking at the records is to count a full point for each player in a singles win or loss, half a point for each player in a doubles win or loss, one-third of a point for each player in a trebles win or loss, and one-fifth (one-sixth in 2006) of a point for each player in a team win or loss. So the following numbers essentially answer the question: "What numerical contribution has each player made to the overall Mosconi Cup match scores?"

Team USA​
• Shane Van Boening (16 yrs. -- 2007-2022) ..... 16-27 singles, 10.5-11.5 doubles, 1.6-1.6 teams, 28.1-40.1 total (41%)​
• Skyler Woodward (8 yrs. -- 2015-2022) ..... 9-6 singles, 5.5-7.5 doubles, 1.0-0.6 teams, 15.5-14.1 total (52%)​
• Tyler Styer (4 yrs. -- 2018-2019, 2021-2022) ..... 2-5 singles, 3-2 doubles, 0.6-0.2 teams, 5.6-7.2 total (44%)​
• Fedor Gorst (1 yr. -- 2020) ..... 1-0 singles, 0.5-0.5 doubles, 0-0.2 teams, 1.5-0.7 total (68%)​
• Shane Wolford (0 yrs. -- rookie)​
​
• Team USA Total (29 yrs.) ..... 28-38 singles, 19.5-21.5 doubles, 3.2-2.6 teams, 50.7-62.1 total (45%)​
​
Team Europe​
• Jayson Shaw (7 yrs. -- 2016-2022) ..... 13-6 singles, 5.5-4.0 doubles, 0.6-0.8 teams, 19.1-10.8 total (64%)​
• Albin Ouschan (6 yrs. -- 2015-2016, 2018, 2020-2022) ..... 5-3 singles, 6-3 doubles, 0.4-0.8 teams, 11.4-6.8 total (63%)​
• Joshua Filler (5 yrs. -- 2017, 2019-2022) ..... 10-3 singles, 4.5-1.5 doubles, 0.2-0.8 teams, 14.7-5.3 total (74%)​
• David Alcaide (4 yrs. -- 2006, 2017, 2021-2022) ..... 5-1 singles, 3.5-2.0 doubles, 0.3-0.3 trebles, 0.2-0.7 teams, 9.0-4.1 total (69%)​
• Francisco Sanchez-Ruiz (1 yr. -- 2022) ..... 0-1 singles, 1.0-0.5 doubles, 0-0.2 teams, 1.0-1.7 total (37%)​
​
• Team Europe Total (23 yrs.) ..... 33-14 singles, 20.5-11.0 doubles, 0.3-0.3 trebles, 1.4-3.3 teams, 55.2-28.7 total (66%)​
 
FargoRate Picture

Current (Nov. 22) FargoRates for this year's Cup players:
[Note: these ratings are taken from the "Top 100 World" list for players on that list and from the "Search for Players" function otherwise. These sources differ by one point for Filler and Ouschan.]

Team USA
Gorst -- 844​
Van Boening -- 836​
Woodward -- 811​
Styer -- 776​
Wolford -- 766​
​
Team USA Mean -- 806.6​

Team Europe
Filler -- 846​
Sanchez-Ruiz -- 841​
Shaw -- 831​
Ouschan -- 822​
Alcaide -- 813​
​
Team Europe Mean -- 830.6​

Rating gap between team means -- 24.0

Obviously, the Cup will not be played with Team Europe having a 24-point FargoRate advantage in every match. But, just for fun:

- Probability of higher-rated player winning a single game if the rating gap is 24 points -- 54%​
- Prob. of higher-rated player winning a race to 5 if the rating gap is 24 pts. -- 60%​
- Prob. of winning a race to 11 matches if your prob. of winning each match is 60% -- 82%, which would put Team Europe at somewhat better than 4-to-1 favorites.​
 
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The wild card. Making balls unintentionally and being allowed to continue play. Some call it luck others call it bs. Personally I feel it should not be allowed at the ‘professional’ events. JMO.
 
Quesports said:
The wild card. Making balls unintentionally and being allowed to continue play. Some call it luck others call it bs. Personally I feel it should not be allowed at the ‘professional’ events. JMO.
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Yes, there's also no call shot in the most challenging game of all the pocket billiard disciplines, namely snooker. Should call shot be added to that game as well?

FYI, call shot in ten ball is relatively new. When they played 10-ball on the PBT, the greatest pro tour in the last twenty-five years in America, they played it Texas Express. Ten ball is also played Texas Express at both Derby City and the International, and the fans love it.
 
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sjm said:
Yes, there's also no call shot in the most challenging game of all the pocket billiard disciplines, namely snooker. Should call shot be added to that game as well?

FYI, call shot in ten ball is relatively new. When they played 10-ball on the PBT, the greatest pro tour in the last twenty-five years in America, they played it Texas Express. Ten ball is also played Texas Express at both Derby City and the International, and the fans love it.
Click to expand...
I grew up on straight pool so I favor call shots in all pocket billiard games.
When the accomplished players slop a ball they almost always wave an apologetic nod to their opponent.
I do not need to tell you that, you see it all the time.

Luck playing safeties is another matter altogether, it is part of the shot and accepted by all as part of the game. Slopping a ball in should not be rewarded with getting another chance to win, IMO.
 
Quesports said:
I grew up on straight pool so I favor call shots in all pocket billiard games.
When the accomplished players slop a ball they almost always wave an apologetic nod to their opponent.
I do not need to tell you that, you see it all the time.

Luck playing safeties is another matter altogether, it is part of the shot and accepted by all as part of the game. Slopping a ball in should not be rewarded with getting another chance to win, IMO.
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Me, too. Straight pool is ridiculous without call shot. The slower pace that call shot produces is why my taste for it was diminished and why it was rejected in favor of the more fast-paced and easier to follow nine-ball for the pro game.

I do not agree with the suggestion that there's any difference between luck on offense and luck on defense. On every shot, you get more, less, or exactly what you've earned, and that's as it should be. It's true in golf and tennis, too.

Call shot takes many exciting shots out of the game. Playing the two-ball while simultaneously trying to carom in the nine and still maintaining shape is skill, not luck.

Playing a bank in a way that maximizes the chance of a double bank on a miss is skill, not luck.

Some of Efren's most memorable shots wouldn't have counted in the world of which you dream.

I could care less what the etiquette is, apology or no apology. Obviously, some good results are unearned, but that's part of the game, and you can't change this without dumbing down the game and making it less interesting.

Sorry, fella, but nine ball isn't going away anytime soon.
 
sjm said:
Call shot takes many exciting shots out of the game. Playing the two-ball while simultaneously trying to carom in the nine and still maintaining shape is skill, not luck.
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I like the "luck" factor in games. Many lucky shots are just about understanding the odds, the possible outcomes, etc. It's like a poker player getting lucky, they have to understand the possibilities and likelihood and the stakes. It's just another factor in games.
 
sjm said:
Me, too. Straight pool is ridiculous without call shot. The slower pace that call shot produces is why my taste for it was diminished and why it was rejected in favor of the more fast-paced and easier to follow nine-ball for the pro game.

I do not agree with the suggestion that there's any difference between luck on offense and luck on defense. On every shot, you get more, less, or exactly what you've earned, and that's as it should be. It's true in golf and tennis, too.

Call shot takes many exciting shots out of the game. Playing the two-ball while simultaneously trying to carom in the nine and still maintaining shape is skill, not luck.

Playing a bank in a way that maximizes the chance of a double bank on a miss is skill, not luck.

Some of Efren's most memorable shots wouldn't have counted in the world of which you dream.

I could care less what the etiquette is, apology or no apology. Obviously, some good results are unearned, but that's part of the game, and you can't change this without dumbing down the game and making it less interesting.

Sorry, fella, but nine ball isn't going away anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Where did I say nine ball was going away, fella??

Happy Thanksgiving!
 
Quesports said:
Where did I say nine ball was going away, fella??

Happy Thanksgiving!
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I meant at the Mosconi. At some point, nine ball probably will go away, but I think that date is a long way away. Yes, Happy Thanksgiving to you and those in your life.
 
AtLarge said:
... - Prob. of winning a race to 11 matches if your prob. of winning each match is 60% -- 82%, which would put Team Europe at somewhat better than 4-to-1 favorites.
Click to expand...
The betting sites don't place them at quite that level of underdog. Taking the Euros does seem to give the bettor a slight edge on paper.
 
AtLarge said:
FargoRate Picture

Current (Nov. 22) FargoRates for this year's Cup players:
[Note: these ratings are taken from the "Top 100 World" list for players on that list and from the "Search for Players" function otherwise. These sources differ by one point for Filler and Ouschan.]

Team USA
Gorst -- 844​
Van Boening -- 836​
Woodward -- 811​
Styer -- 776​
Wolford -- 766​
​
Team USA Mean -- 806.6​

Team Europe
Filler -- 846​
Sanchez-Ruiz -- 841​
Shaw -- 831​
Ouschan -- 822​
Alcaide -- 813​
​
Team Europe Mean -- 830.6​

Rating gap between team means -- 24.0

Obviously, the Cup will not be played with Team Europe having a 24-point FargoRate advantage in every match. But, just for fun:

- Probability of higher-rated player winning a single game if the rating gap is 24 points -- 54%​
- Prob. of higher-rated player winning a race to 5 if the rating gap is 24 pts. -- 60%​
- Prob. of winning a race to 11 matches if your prob. of winning each match is 60% -- 82%, which would put Team Europe at somewhat better than 4-to-1 favorites.​
Click to expand...
Well done here. An actual examination of the binary probabilities, as you've demonstrated, makes one realize that the Mosconi is a marathon, not a sprint. America can certainly win, but it's tough action.
 
I don't know much about Wolford so I looked him up on YouTube. Watched a bit of 5 different matches, and while hes a solid player, he lost every match. Hopefully he excels under pressure (like Styer) in the Mosconi, but on the face of it, it doesn't look great.

However, with Fedor on the team, this is the best chance we've had in years!

Once again, amazing job AtLarge for these excellent stats, thank you!
 
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