Most dominant cash Nine ball player of any era?

rnsbr said:
Jay, what about Louie Roberts?
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Louie was pure action, 100% fast forward at all times! But he didn't always match up so good and frequently it cost him his entire bankroll (and a piece of mine more than once :wink:). He rarely could find anyone to play him even, and he was forced to give up weight everywhere he went. Louie got so jaded by it, that he would enter an action pool room and say loud enough for all to hear, "You all got the seven!"

Only guys like Keith and Earl would gamble with him even, and thats' about it. Many other top players tried Louie out at one time or another, but after he made a few of his patented cut shots they didn't want to see any more. Louie played everyone even at one time or another, and beat most of them. Rempe, Mataya, Sigel (he tried giving Louie the eight. After Louie beat him, he offered to play some more even. Sigel declined.), Hubbart, Reid and even Cornbread found out that he was not someone to mess around with. Denny Searcy is one other guy who did beat Louie playing even, besides Keith and Earl. Buddy gave Louie the seven ball and I think it psyched him out. At that level one ball meant little if anything. It was a psychological ploy by Buddy that worked.

Yes, Louie was a great one, one of the best. No one ever cut balls like Louie Roberts. So accurate and with such speed. Super thin table length cut - WHOOSH! Dead center of the pocket! He was scary then and would still be today. Best shot maker of all time, hands down!
 
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Jay and I talked about this up at poolhustler's house where I was retaining my dignity by NOT playing. One ends up thinking the dominant player of their area and era is the most dominant and I'm the same, but in my "old days"

there was a player that stayed in one place and waited. Guys would travel and road play for months getting a stake together because they knew when they got to this guy, no matter how much, they could get played, and if they could beat this guy they could get rich. And I'll be darned if I can think of one time I ever saw him lose big money, EVER.

Cornbread Red

In his prime (which lasted FOREVER), he would play anybody for any amount and almost any game.

Thanks

Kevin
 
kvinbrwr said:
Jay and I talked about this up at poolhustler's house where I was retaining my dignity by NOT playing. One ends up thinking the dominant player of their area and era is the most dominant and I'm the same, but in my "old days"

there was a player that stayed in one place and waited. Guys would travel and road play for months getting a stake together because they knew when they got to this guy, no matter how much, they could get played, and if they could beat this guy they could get rich. And I'll be darned if I can think of one time I ever saw him lose big money, EVER.

Cornbread Red

In his prime (which lasted FOREVER), he would play anybody for any amount and almost any game.

Thanks

Kevin
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I've heard that Cornbread would sometimes get into a bad match, where he had no business winning...but he would somehow win anyway!
 
kvinbrwr said:
Jay and I talked about this up at poolhustler's house where I was retaining my dignity by NOT playing. One ends up thinking the dominant player of their area and era is the most dominant and I'm the same, but in my "old days"

there was a player that stayed in one place and waited. Guys would travel and road play for months getting a stake together because they knew when they got to this guy, no matter how much, they could get played, and if they could beat this guy they could get rich. And I'll be darned if I can think of one time I ever saw him lose big money, EVER.

Cornbread Red

In his prime (which lasted FOREVER), he would play anybody for any amount and almost any game.

Thanks

Kevin
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Cornbread was the greatest player to watch play. He was a great player, flashy and he was hilarious. And it seemed he always got the cheese (unless there was another plan in place ;))

But, Sigel beat him out of $35K-$50K 3 years in a row when Larry Hubbard brought Mike to play Red 1-pocket on the 5x10 at the Rack. I think it was maybe 71-73 but I could be off a little. Everyone at the Rack tried to trap Larry & Mike afterward to get the money back but Larry would not let that happen...they left w/the cash. Larry was a true "business man" and Mike was true "player" at a very young age.

Thanks for the memories.

Dave
 
12squared said:
Cornbread was the greatest player to watch play. He was a great player, flashy and he was hilarious. And it seemed he always got the cheese (unless there was another plan in place ;))

But, Sigel beat him out of $35K-$50K 3 years in a row when Larry Hubbard brought Mike to play Red 1-pocket on the 5x10 at the Rack. I think it was maybe 71-73 but I could be off a little. Everyone at the Rack tried to trap Larry & Mike afterward to get the money back but Larry would not let that happen...they left w/the cash. Larry was a true "business man" and Mike was true "player" at a very young age.

Thanks for the memories.

Dave
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Dave

Great stuff. Memory is a funny thing and mine tends to be selective. I absolutely remember Sigel and Hubbard together at The Rack (god there's so many places we had to be at the same time). As a matter of fact, for some reason I remember seeing Hubbard taking a one piece house cue out of the trunk of their car to play with, but I don't remember them torturing Red at all.

Red was hilarious and ultra strong. That was a really confident man

Thanks man

Kevin
 
kvinbrwr said:
Jay and I talked about this up at poolhustler's house where I was retaining my dignity by NOT playing. One ends up thinking the dominant player of their area and era is the most dominant and I'm the same, but in my "old days"

there was a player that stayed in one place and waited. Guys would travel and road play for months getting a stake together because they knew when they got to this guy, no matter how much, they could get played, and if they could beat this guy they could get rich. And I'll be darned if I can think of one time I ever saw him lose big money, EVER.

Cornbread Red

In his prime (which lasted FOREVER), he would play anybody for any amount and almost any game.

Thanks

Kevin
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Kevin brought this oversight to my attention the other day and he is absolutely 100% correct! No one of his era (except maybe Jew Paul) bet as high as Red and was willing to play ANYONE! I can only think of one player who Red was reluctant to play in his prime and that was Buddy. But they were friends, and would be more likely to be in together on a game if Buddy was playing someone.

Red backed down none other than Richie Florence in his prime and made Mizerak leave the room after he challenged a group of hustlers to play Straight Pool. I won't tell that story out of respect for Steve, but let's just say Red put him in his place.

Red was, without a doubt, the most feared high dollar player of his era. Kind of the Parica of the 60's, 70's and early 80's. The best players (and gamblers) of that era gave him a wide berth. I'm talking about Mataya, Reid, Varner, Swanee, Hopkins, Marino, Incardona, McCready, Roberts, Rempe, W. Crane, J. Fusco and Hubbart. Hopkins may have beat Red playing One Pocket back then (in Detroit) and that may be the game Kevin is referring to. But I don't remember anyone beating him at 9-Ball for the cash. Red was still playing damn good until the late 80's as well. I watched a very young (maybe 20) Johnny Archer challenge him in a $2,000 Bank Pool match in 1988 or '89. Johnny started out like a house on fire, but in the end Red had the cash!

Red was the most feared pool player on planet Earth for a long, long time! Of the whole bunch I mentioned above, only Swanee or Keith or maybe Louie would have been willing to test Red. Keith would play anyone, he didn't care if you were Al Capone. Swanee often played top players for big money, with a backer of course. And Louie was crazy that way. I think Louie got taken off more than once in Detroit, before he got cured.

P.S. Red would bet his own money too, pockets full of it! He never needed a backer to get down.
 
kvinbrwr said:
Dave

Great stuff. Memory is a funny thing and mine tends to be selective. I absolutely remember Sigel and Hubbard together at The Rack (god there's so many places we had to be at the same time). As a matter of fact, for some reason I remember seeing Hubbard taking a one piece house cue out of the trunk of their car to play with, but I don't remember them torturing Red at all.

Red was hilarious and ultra strong. That was a really confident man

Thanks man

Kevin
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One more story about Red, but it was hearsay: Some young gun came into the Rack and asked for Cornbread, he wanted to play $1,000/game 9-ball with him. Someone called Red at home, when Red got on the phone he was told what the kid wanted to do so Red asked him to find out how much money the kid had on him. The kid said $10,000 so Red said "tell him I'll play him some $10,000 a game". The kid left town :).

It just sounded like something that would happen to Red so I always chose to believe it.

And just to be clear, I was a young, shy, kid around these champions so I'm not saying I was friends with them, just around them from time to time that witnessed some amazing stuff. I wish I was more confident back then to try to get in the inner circle, what I may have learned??????

Dave
 
Say Red (John Henry from DC started that 'say' stuff)

I've known Red since I was a kid.
I'm batting 1000 on Red either side betting or taking part of the center.
He felt I was his good luck charm.He also did me a lot of action favors.

Freddy Salem,arguably the best Ameican 10 foot snooker player in his
prime,said he would gamble with anybody at 1-pocket on a 10 ft snooker
table but Red was the best ever at that game.Freddy said he needed 9/7
from Red.

But Red was human,he didn't win every time.

Romberg got him big at 9 ft 1-hole.
Jimmy Mataya could make him visably upset.They were two similar
personalities and sparks would fly when they met.
Once they were playing 10-ball on a 10 ft pool table and Red missed an open shot.
Jimmy said "I want you to PLAY on me, Red.you aint nothin' but a warm-up anyway."Red stayed off his game and lost a few bucks that day.

Red used to give up weght at 1-pocket like the action Alex is in with Viffer.

Walked into the Rack one day and watched Red run 12 balls on his first
turn and finish with a safety...then he spotted every ball back up.
I said "Red,how much you giving up ?" He said "Got a calculator?"
 
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pt109 said:
I've known Red since I was a kid.
I'm batting 1000 on Red either side betting or taking part of the center.
He felt I was his good luck charm.He also did me a lot of action favors.

Freddy Salem,arguably the best Ameican 10 foot snooker player in his
prime,said he would gamble with anybody at 1-pocket on a 10 ft snooker
table but Red was the best ever at that game.Freddy said he needed 9/7
from Red.

But Red was human,he didn't win every time.

Romberg got him big at 9 ft 1-hole.
Jimmy Mataya could make him visably upset.They were two similar
personalities and sparks would fly when they met.
Once they were playing 10-ball on a 10 ft pool table and Red missed an open shot.
Jimmy said "I want you to PLAY on me, Red.you aint nothin' but a warm-up anyway."Red stayed off his game and lost a few bucks that day.

Red used to give up weght at 1-pocket like the action Alex is in with Viffer.

Walked into the Rack one day and watched Red run 12 balls on his first
turn and finish with a safety...then he spotted every ball back up.
I said "Red,how much you giving up ?" He said "Got a calculator?"
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:) Love that "Got a calculator?" line. Red had plenty of them.

The 1st time I ever walked into the rack, Freddy Salem was playing Jew Paul 1-pocket on the snooker table for $10K/game. I was so wide-eyed from watching all the money change hands, I'm not sure I blinked for an hour :).

Thanks for the stories all.

Dave
 
Cash Players

Anybody get to sweat Randy Wallace or David Matlock on the bar-box during their prime? These two cats made spectators out of a bunch of 'em.
 
Mark Tadd

The best that I've seen was Tadd in 1990. He beat Searcy all around town (of course, Searcy had been away from pool for too long to get it back at the time). But, it's difficult to imagine anyone playing better than he was playing then.
 
Celtic said:
Found this, Wu Yu-Lun beat Wu Chia Ching in the junior world 9-ball championships in the finals (and drilled Klatt in about the quarters).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNSzGmDqfWw&feature=related

Supposedly Wu Yu-Lun was a monster of a money player in Taiwan. If he came through the USA like some of the lesser known Filipinos have I dont think the US would like it.

I watched Wu Yu-Lun win the world juniors in Adelaide Australia beating Chia in the finals and I will say this, noone in the place previous to the match was willing to bet against Yu Lun giving any odds despite the fact that Chia ran a 9-pack on a previous opponent.

I will also add, Yu Lun at the juniors had THE hardest break I have ever seen in person. And I have seen Chia, Busta, Alex, Strickland, Archer (back when he drilled em) and almost all of the hard breakers.
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Wu Yu-Lun has THE hardest break in taiwan, but he has been asked to play snooker for severl years.....TAIWAN Billiard Association..... idiot.....

Wu Yu-Lun, Wu Chia-Ching and Ko ping-yi - taiwan "three little dragon".....
 
Even though they may not be of the same caliber as some mentioned here, I think Jack Hynes and Weldon "Junior" Rogers were pretty tough when they were on.

I saw Jr play a shortstop 20 years ago, and he didn't even try to run racks--he was shooting some of the goofiest stuff you ever saw--and made it work. I guess he was just having fun. Looked like pure slop, and the poor chump had no idea....
 
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If we are talking about any era and i was born in the 70's the two maybe three players that i think we great money players are Alex/Mills and Efren. I am sure there were better cash players back in the day like Greenleaf/Buddy/Cornbread and Strawberry But from what ive seen those three are it.... Thanks for posting a great thread i love all the stories oh and by the way "got a calculator" love it PT
 
greatest hustler or money player

Their is only one name that comes to my mind....................
..................Vernon Elliott..............................................
 
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