Moving poles in a basement

M

mmaxey

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I'm sure I'm not the first person to be faced with the dillema of basement pole that simply is in the way just enough to make the playing experience less than optimal.

I have a relatively large room from which I can shoot with a 58" cue at all locations except for near the left side pocket. A pole is currently in the way and stands about 2 feet out from the wall. There are three poles total that are connected to the beam in the ceilng spanning about 42' across the house total. On the left side of the table the pole hinders play enough to require using a 36" short cue.

If at all possible I would like to eliminate all three poles to allow me to remove a wall that was added a couple of years ago to divide two rooms in the basement. THis would allow me more than ample room to install a 9' table. Even if I can't eliminate all the poles, would it be possible to eliminate one of the three or more the pole that is in the way back about 2 feet to allow ample playing room for my current 7' table without causing structural damage?

Has anyone here attempted to move and/or eliminate poles in their basement? I've heard stories of replacing the wooden beam with a steal beam and eliminating all the poles completely. I'm not a structural engineer or really even know all that much about construction, but any recipes for success that you guys can share would be greatly appreciated. Also, if any of you have pulled this off successfully would you care to share how much it costed?
 
mmaxey said:
I'm sure I'm not the first person to be faced with the dillema of basement pole that simply is in the way just enough to make the playing experience less than optimal.

I have a relatively large room from which I can shoot with a 58" cue at all locations except for near the left side pocket. A pole is currently in the way and stands about 2 feet out from the wall. There are three poles total that are connected to the beam in the ceilng spanning about 42' across the house total. On the left side of the table the pole hinders play enough to require using a 36" short cue.

If at all possible I would like to eliminate all three poles to allow me to remove a wall that was added a couple of years ago to divide two rooms in the basement. THis would allow me more than ample room to install a 9' table. Even if I can't eliminate all the poles, would it be possible to eliminate one of the three or more the pole that is in the way back about 2 feet to allow ample playing room for my current 7' table without causing structural damage?

Has anyone here attempted to move and/or eliminate poles in their basement? I've heard stories of replacing the wooden beam with a steal beam and eliminating all the poles completely. I'm not a structural engineer or really even know all that much about construction, but any recipes for success that you guys can share would be greatly appreciated. Also, if any of you have pulled this off successfully would you care to share how much it costed?
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I know an engineer that has done this for a lot of people. You usually have two options. Replace the I-Beam with a much TALLER beam. For Instance if you have a 6 inch tall beam you can eliminate a certain number of support(when figuring by the linear foot) by upping it to a 10 inch beam or a 14 inch beam. An engineer has to see plans to tell you which way is best. He also told me that you can have a welder add plates if done correctly to the current beam in some cases. But you have to still figure the stress loads to determine the thickness of steel you have to add. Don't try to cut costs on this project. Do it right and hire and engineer and architect. Otherwise if your floor sags your insurance company may not cover it..negligence. Good luck to you.
 
Look in your area for someone who manufactures steel buildings. they may either do the work or can direct you from there.


HTH.

Dave
 
Yes it can be done.....like Craig said, get an engineer in to do the plans for you. I have been in the remodeling biz for 20 years and we have done a bunch of jobs where bearing load points needed to be moved. Remember, you can do ANYTHING to a house you want, it's just a box of wood, as my Dad would say. The engineer will give you the best options. Just make sure to let him know how you want the basement to look when your done. Oh, and don't forget the permits!:D....I hate going to the township building!!!

Gerry
 
I design floor and roof truss systems for a living, so I have a knowledge of these type of bearing/loading details. The issue you're probably going to run into, as others have mentioned, is that to get the type of support you'll need to remove any pole(s), you will most likely have to upgrade the main support (beam) to a deeper member to carry more load. If you already have a steel beam, this means you may lose some headroom under the beam. If you have enough ceiling clearance to allow the additional beam depth, you can finish around the beam and all is well. If you have a wood beam, you may be able to upgrade it to steel and not have to increase the depth (or as much) to gain the additional loading. By all means, have a structural engineer do the design work to be sure the new beam will be structurally sound for your application.
 
My wife is a structural engineer and I work for an engineering office and I agree with the other posters... you should hire a structural engineer to look at your house and draw-up some plans and details for you.

You can save money by having someone do it as a moonlighting job for a flat fee. But make sure you have a PE (Professional Engineer) do the design, as the permit people will most likely want to have the drawings stamped (certified by the engineer), which can only be done by a PE. If you have a non-PE do the drawings and the permit people want stamped drawings, you will have to pay another person to review and stamp the drawing, which will be like paying twice for one job....

As for your basement, they will probably add steel beams with new columns at the ends instead of the ones you currently have supporting the middle of your joists (as other posters have already said).
 
They are many options. If head space is a factor you could also consider putting another beam on both sides of the existing.

As suggested. Use a PE to design and seal the drawings. Any way you look at it it will be expensive. So pay me now or pay me later.

If you don't do it right you may as well suspend it with sky hooks.:eek:
 
My 2 cents...

You must really want a table, if you're willing to spend the kind of money these guys are talking just to put a table in your house.

Heck...you guys got him in the thousands, maybe tens of thousands already, and he hasn't even decided what brand of table he wants.

Good Luck
 
I've already planned that I want a diamond 9' or a gabriels. Most likely the diamond since i'm so close to the DCC.

I own a 7' valley right now and if this goes well I might just end up with 2 tables at home
 
mmaxey said:
I've already planned that I want a diamond 9' or a gabriels. Most likely the diamond since i'm so close to the DCC.

I own a 7' valley right now and if this goes well I might just end up with 2 tables at home
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Save some money and convert your garage to a gameroom. A two car garage is ideal for such conversions. I've done about a dozen over the years and they always turn out great. And the most we ever spent was a few thou. The rafters have excellent support for hanging lights and usually (not always) power is already there.
 
I did it

I've posted this about 5 times now. The pole was removed in 1998.

I was able to remove the pole by adding another support beam. The existing poles in my basement were about 9' apart. The existing beam was a 5" x 8' (18) meaning it weighed 18 lb./foot. The new beam was 5" x 8" (21), it deflected much less than the original. I used a jack to slowly raise the new beam into place. The new beam is about 18' long and was supported at each end with poles that shared the footer with existing poles. I did not break through the slab and set the new poles directly on the existing footer. They are sitting right on the slab. I did drill and pin them in place, but don't believe that this is really necessary. Before starting any work I measured and cut a 2 x 4 to the exact height between the floor and the existing beam, in the spot where the pole was to be removed. My intention was to make sure that the existing beam did not change location (vertically) when the job was completed. With the new beam in place and the new adjustable poles at each end I slowly cut the middle pole and as the old beam started to slowly drop I would raise the new beam to compensate. Obviously I had a couple guys helping me with this part. One thing that I anticipated was that the new beam would bow due to the increased length between supports. I placed wooden shims (pieces of shingle) between the beam and the floor joists, 1/2" shims in the middle and less thick as they got closer to the support poles.
I got the height of the existing beam within 1/8" of its original location. I was very hesitant to try this put refused to put a pool table in a location that had any obstructions. I had seen this modification done one other time with the same result and that helped my confidence. I had recently remodeled the kitchen, which is right above where the pole was removed. There are no cracks in tile or walls. Additionally, I live in upstate NY and we get our fair share of snow in the winter. The pitch on my roof is fairly flat and snow does accumulate up there. After nine winters there has been no settling or shifting. IMO, the support is probably stronger now than before. When I was all done I boxed in both of the poles and one of them makes a little wall jutting out into the room. This made a little alcove for a sitting area on one side and a place for the dartboard on the other. The hardest part of the entire job was getting the beam through the basement window and into place.
 
Paul Mon said:
I've posted this about 5 times now. The pole was removed in 1998.

I was able to remove the pole by adding another support beam. The existing poles in my basement were about 9' apart. The existing beam was a 5" x 8' (18) meaning it weighed 18 lb./foot. The new beam was 5" x 8" (21), it deflected much less than the original. I used a jack to slowly raise the new beam into place. The new beam is about 18' long and was supported at each end with poles that shared the footer with existing poles. I did not break through the slab and set the new poles directly on the existing footer. They are sitting right on the slab. I did drill and pin them in place, but don't believe that this is really necessary. Before starting any work I measured and cut a 2 x 4 to the exact height between the floor and the existing beam, in the spot where the pole was to be removed. My intention was to make sure that the existing beam did not change location (vertically) when the job was completed. With the new beam in place and the new adjustable poles at each end I slowly cut the middle pole and as the old beam started to slowly drop I would raise the new beam to compensate. Obviously I had a couple guys helping me with this part. One thing that I anticipated was that the new beam would bow due to the increased length between supports. I placed wooden shims (pieces of shingle) between the beam and the floor joists, 1/2" shims in the middle and less thick as they got closer to the support poles.
I got the height of the existing beam within 1/8" of its original location. I was very hesitant to try this put refused to put a pool table in a location that had any obstructions. I had seen this modification done one other time with the same result and that helped my confidence. I had recently remodeled the kitchen, which is right above where the pole was removed. There are no cracks in tile or walls. Additionally, I live in upstate NY and we get our fair share of snow in the winter. The pitch on my roof is fairly flat and snow does accumulate up there. After nine winters there has been no settling or shifting. IMO, the support is probably stronger now than before. When I was all done I boxed in both of the poles and one of them makes a little wall jutting out into the room. This made a little alcove for a sitting area on one side and a place for the dartboard on the other. The hardest part of the entire job was getting the beam through the basement window and into place.
Click to expand...

You got away with using the existing footing (I think that's what you implied) but I hope the orriginal poster takes all the advice he's gotten on here and gets an engineer to design it for him. It's highly risky to put new columns on a floor slab without a proper footing.

Alex <-- in the biz
 
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