Multi-level seeding

[Bob Jewett]

In the current pro snooker tournament, they are using tiers of seeding to qualify 16 players for the main event. Everything is single elimination.

It looks like this:

64 players play 32 matches and the losers go home -- Round 1
32 new players are added and 32 matches are played -- Round 2
32 new players are added and 32 matches are played -- Round 3
The 32 players left play 16 matches and the losers go home -- Round 4 of the qualifiers leaving 16 qualified players
16 top players are added to make up the main event of 32 players

That means that a total of 144 players play in the event with 4 tiers of seeding, Rounds 1-3 and the main event.

I think some of the entrants in Round 1 don't actually have a tour card. If you sneak into Round 1 as an amateur, you have to win four increasingly tough matches to get into the main event, and then win five matches to win the event.

 

[DaveK]

In the current pro snooker tournament, they are using tiers of seeding to qualify 16 players for the main event. Everything is single elimination.

It looks like this:

64 players play 32 matches and the losers go home -- Round 1
32 new players are added and 32 matches are played -- Round 2
32 new players are added and 32 matches are played -- Round 3
The 32 players left play 16 matches and the losers go home -- Round 4 of the qualifiers leaving 16 qualified players
16 top players are added to make up the main event of 32 players

That means that a total of 144 players play in the event with 4 tiers of seeding, Rounds 1-3 and the main event.

I think some of the entrants in Round 1 don't actually have a tour card. If you sneak into Round 1 as an amateur, you have to win four increasingly tough matches to get into the main event, and then win five matches to win the event.

Do they have qualifiers to select some (20ish minimum) of the 64 players in round 1 ? The rankings go to 125 I believe (although I see 5 players tied for 125th) and the subsequent rounds add 80 players so they could all be selected / seeded by ranking.

Dave

 

[Bob Jewett]

Do they have qualifiers to select some (20ish minimum) of the 64 players in round 1 ? The rankings go to 125 I believe (although I see 5 players tied for 125th) and the subsequent rounds add 80 players so they could all be selected / seeded by ranking.

Dave

I'm pretty sure they do not have special events to determine the "extra" players that are added. In the past they have selected players who finished high in Q-School but did not actually qualify, who recently fell off the rankings, who were former past top players, or who were top female players. Sometimes they have to add such "extras" to fill in when ranked players can't show up, such as for Covid.

The extras can win money but I think they do not get ranking points for doing so. (Normally ranking points = prize money won in ranking events.)

 

[alphadog]

Sounds like a great format to me.

 

[Fatboy]

In the current pro snooker tournament, they are using tiers of seeding to qualify 16 players for the main event. Everything is single elimination.

It looks like this:

64 players play 32 matches and the losers go home -- Round 1
32 new players are added and 32 matches are played -- Round 2
32 new players are added and 32 matches are played -- Round 3
The 32 players left play 16 matches and the losers go home -- Round 4 of the qualifiers leaving 16 qualified players
16 top players are added to make up the main event of 32 players

That means that a total of 144 players play in the event with 4 tiers of seeding, Rounds 1-3 and the main event.

I think some of the entrants in Round 1 don't actually have a tour card. If you sneak into Round 1 as an amateur, you have to win four increasingly tough matches to get into the main event, and then win five matches to win the event.

Seems like that would discourage the dead money from playing.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding something.

I need to give this more thought when I’m focused. Busy working right now.

Best
Eric

14.1 tourney was great Bob

 

[Bob Jewett]

Seems like that would discourage the dead money from playing.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding something.

I need to give this more thought when I’m focused. Busy working right now.

Best
Eric

14.1 tourney was great Bob

The tournament this is being used in has no dead money as there is no entry fee, so far as I know. There is only the expense of showing up for your matches such as travel money. The players who win in round 1 and lose in round 2 seem to get about $3000, or maybe they have to win two -- the prize money list is a little ambiguous.

 

[Fatboy]

The tournament this is being used in has no dead money as there is no entry fee, so far as I know. There is only the expense of showing up for your matches such as travel money.

Perfect then, great idea. Pool needs dead $, that comes from happy players. Seeding is necessary to attract top talent because prize $ is so short now(not that it’s ever been huge).

Thx for clearing that up. I’m always open to new ideas and learning

 

[DeeDeeCues]

Perfect then, great idea. Pool needs dead $, that comes from happy players. Seeding is necessary to attract top talent because prize $ is so short now(not that it’s ever been huge).

Thx for clearing that up. I’m always open to new ideas and learning

What Bob is describing is still very much seeding. The top 16 only enter the tourney for the final 32. I'm sure they seed all players at each tier. Effectively everyone outside the top 16 is playing qualifier rounds to be in the top 32. So in a 128 person tourney, the top 16 can't place below 32nd. Pros in pool would drool for that opportunity.

As for the dead money, they are guaranteed to have a match against someone outside the top 32 in the beginning. Better deal for them, also.

We used to do something a bit similar in foosball. We would divide teams up into A,B,C divisions. Each division would have their own tourney, then the C winners would play the B winners with a handicap. The winner of that match would play the A winner with a handicap. Prize money was paid for each division with a bonus for the final inter-division match.

 

[Fatboy]

What Bob is describing is still very much seeding. The top 16 only enter the tourney for the final 32. I'm sure they seed all players at each tier. Effectively everyone outside the top 16 is playing qualifier rounds to be in the top 32. So in a 128 person tourney, the top 16 can't place below 32nd. Pros in pool would drool for that opportunity.

As for the dead money, they are guaranteed to have a match against someone outside the top 32 in the beginning. Better deal for them, also.

We used to do something a bit similar in foosball. We would divide teams up into A,B,C divisions. Each division would have their own tourney, then the C winners would play the B winners with a handicap. The winner of that match would play the A winner with a handicap. Prize money was paid for each division with a bonus for the final inter-division match.

Thanks for the explanation. Seems good.

The old formats are really not working, reviewing and new ideas are the way forward. The exception being “shoot outs” but that’s another topic.

Progress is good

Thx again
Fatboy

 

[stewie]

Kind of similar concept in Germany for registered players to play in those tiered tourneys. Any registered player with a club association can sign up for a yearly county tournament (Kreismeisterschaft) they do for each game (8,9,10-Ball and straight). The top 8 or so qualify for the district event (Bezirksmeisterschaft). Top finishers from last year's districts don't have to qualify through the county tourney again. The top finishers of the regionals qualify for the state tourney. Again, top finishers from last year's state don't have to qualify again. The top finishers from the state qualify for the nationals. For these, I think, you have to qualify every year again through state tourneys. The races get longer the less local the tournaments are. They have administration tiers from national (DBU) down to state/district leadership, who then organize those events.

I wish this would be done in the US as well. No handicaps needed. All even races. Gets harder the further you go. Weaker players avoid the real tough ones until they qualify to play them on the next level. These are all double-elimination.