My #1 Problem - Open To Suggestions

BRKNRUN said:
I don't mind that at all....But when you are playing a match and that tricky shot comes up...Do you get a chance to work it out before you get to shoot it???

By all means if you are "learning" a new shot, yes hit it over and over until you learn it...but once you know it, it never changes...hitting it 50 times in a row is sensless....I think (once you know a shot) practice making it the "first" time...then hit it 3 or 4 more times to keep that muscle memory...and move on....JMO
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ok, I got your meaning. It will depend on the level you're at. After years of hard practice I also know most the shots so just occassionally hit a few memory refreshers.

Now if I were to get seriously into 9-ball, I would want to play thousands of repetitions of some bank shots and kick shots as I'd be learning a lot of it from almost scratch - guesses.

For beginners of the game though, I think they'd do better with less random banging and more repetitions.
 
DCP, several of the suggestions on here are good ones. The books mentioned would be good to read, and shooting the shot faster may or may not be good advice depending on how long you currently take. More important is probobaly the mental proccess while you are down on the shot.

I can think of a few things we may want to address to try and help with this problem, but they would be too long and hard to explain on here. Make note of this question and ask me about it when we get together.

Woody
 
Matt_24 said:
(Jimmy Reid gave me the best answer), ...once they are down on the shot they aren't "thinking"...they are executing.

When you finally get DOWN on the shot, it should be somewhat automatic with a blank mind.
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This is the answer...but some guys (maybe like DCP) just can't go blank. They even have to think about not thinking...which is still thinking.

In this case, a frontal lobotomy would be recommended. (THAT is a serious answer for DCP in more ways than one)
 
Colin Colenso said:
With some trepidation that I'll come of sounding like that spammer Ishimara or whatever his name is, I suggest you try some chanting.

Seriously...also known as positive affirmations, self-hypnosis, self-suggestion...but it works and can re-program your mind to make you more decisive...reduce the doubt which produces bad, hesitant shots.

I've forgotten the exact chant I used to use but it went something like this.

Observe the balls and select the shot,
Imagine the position and the pot,
See it clearly as I go down smoothly,
Feel the angle and slide into line,
See what I want and play it refined.

The main points are to decide the exact shot you want before taking the stance and then imagine this shot how it should be played and keep this focus throughout taking stance position, feathering the shot and executing the shot.

The chant works best if it has a smooth meter (rythym) and rhyming can help, but is not crucial.

I suggest you write your own little chant, and say it over and over again when you are practicing while thinking of what it really means.

You may alter the words and meanings as you become more clear about what thinking process you want to focus on with the shot.

After hundreds of times you won't need the chant anymore except for occaissional refreshment as your thinking process will have adapted to this self-hypnotic suggestion.

If your chant doesn't make sense, the process will not work. It may intefere with the processes of the mind which are most effective, so don't give yourself too much to think about. There is a fine line between useful self-suggestion and paralysis by analysis, but smart analysis can be very useful.

Warning: Do not, under any circumstances allow another to hypnotise you. It may help with control over a certain situation, but makes the person generally less self controlled and open to suggestion from others...this is the opposite of the path of self-discovery which is done through self-control and self-knowledge.
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Damn, Colin...we gotta meet in person sometime.

Chanting, or poetry, can help in this case as you've indicated. Poetry tends to bypass the consicous mind and inputs info directly into the subconscious mind...that's one of its benefits AND one of its dangers. It is dangerous if the info is damaging to the self, so you're right, make the words your own and be very very very careful of their exact meaning before you send them to the subconscious mind via poetry.

DCP, maybe you have a song that inspires you...that might help.

Jeff Livingston
 
Play faster. Many players get in the habit of shooting too slow and thinking themselves out of the shots. When most people are in dead punch they don't need to think, they just play. Most people have seen almost every table layout and deep down know what to do. Its a double edged sword though, playing too fast can result in easy misses also. It's fine line to find, but when you find it you will know how good it feels.
 
Listen to the Hit

I've forgotten the exact chant I used to use
The chant works best if it has a smooth meter (rythym) and rhyming can help, but is not crucial.

I suggest you write your own little chant, and say it over and over again when you are practicing while thinking of what it really means.

You may alter the words and meanings as you become more clear about what thinking process you want to focus on with the shot.

After hundreds of times you won't need the chant anymore except for occaissional refreshment as your thinking process will have adapted to this self-hypnotic suggestion.

.[/QUOTE]
This is a Great Thread.
Colin you have a Great response.
I have a variation on this theme. A song witch will put you in your "Happy Place" like a chant you say it without really thinking about it but it aligns your mind.
This Really help me learn how to ski the bumps in snow skiing. I still use it In fact when I get this song in my head I see the mougles in front of me and my body is ready to take them on!!
Another thing that has helped along the same line but in pool. I got this from "The Monk". Listen to the sound of your hit......really!! When you are focused on this your attention is still on the same plane as the shot BUT..by tuning your consious attention to the sound of the HIT You have taken your active attention away from "I DON"T want to Miss" to SHhhhhhh.........I want to listen. I am not sure if I can tell what would happen by the sound but it settles me down. I hope this made scense to you as readers but it works for me...but I am not that good either!!..*L*
 
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chefjeff said:
Chanting, or poetry, can help in this case as you've indicated. Poetry tends to bypass the consicous mind and inputs info directly into the subconscious mind...that's one of its benefits AND one of its dangers. It is dangerous if the info is damaging to the self, so you're right, make the words your own and be very very very careful of their exact meaning before you send them to the subconscious mind via poetry.

DCP, maybe you have a song that inspires you...that might help.

Jeff Livingston
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So thats why whenever I hear the song Werewolves of London I start playing like everything is just a stop shot.... ;)
 
Snapshot9 said:
[...]
When you play someone better than you are, you beat them with
defense, not offense, by outthinking them, and thereby restricting
their offensive skills.
[...]
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I don't agree with this. Of course I do agree with playing a smart game and considering carefully the balance between offense and defense. But I believe that when playing a better player, that balance is shifted slightly in the offensive direction.

The way I see it the choice between offense and defense--between going for the out and ducking--is about deciding which one is associated with a higher chance of winning the game.

For instance, if you think you have an 80% chance of winning by going for the out but you also see a lock-up safety that you think gives you a 90% chance of winning the game, go for the safety. Similarly, there are times you might estimate only a 10% chance of winning with an offensive approach, but because your chance of winning with a defensive shot is only 5%, you should go for the out.

My point in the first paragraph is that the defensive side probability is more sensitive to who your opponent is than is the offensive side probability, so the balance is shifted depending on who your opponent is.

Here's an 8-ball example. You're on the 8-ball which is is a few inches from a corner pocket and is close to one of your opponent's balls. You're partially hooked and can't make it without kicking for it. Your opponent has three balls left.

You see two reasonable choices

(1) kick to make the 8-ball -- 20% chance; sellout if you fail

(2) tap the 8 onto your opponent's ball, leaving him an open shot but also needing to break the cluster before he gets out.

In comparing your chance of winning for the two options, your opponent's skill level plays a big role only in the second option.

Your option 2 chance of winning might be 25% against a B player and 15% against an A player. If so, then you go for it against the A player and duck against the B player.

Likewise if you're playing a one-hole golf match against double-bogey-mike on a 200 yard par three with water before the green, you should probably lay up before the water on your tee shot to maximize your chance of winning. But if you're playing against Tiger, go for the green.

So how does all this comport with the "play the table, not the opponent" addage? I think that's something that's frequently misused. I think when deciding what to do you must consider both the table *and* your opponent. Then once you've decided on a specific course of action, you execute it without reference to who you're playing.

Double-Bogey Mike
Fargo
 
Good post Mike. Many times while watching different league play matches I have seen a decent player run down to the 8 and be hooked, with the 8 ball close to a pocket. They may be playing a new player that cant run 3 balls and that player has 7 balls plus the 8ball on the table. How many times have you seen the player kick at the 8 and scratch giving the weaker player the game when even if you just give the weaker player ball in hand 9 times out of 10 they wont get out?

Knowing your opponents strenght and weaknesses is a level of pool that is often overlooked.
 
mikepage said:
I don't agree with this. Of course I do agree with playing a smart game and considering carefully the balance between offense and defense. But I believe that when playing a better player, that balance is shifted slightly in the offensive direction.

The way I see it the choice between offense and defense--between going for the out and ducking--is about deciding which one is associated with a higher chance of winning the game.

For instance, if you think you have an 80% chance of winning by going for the out but you also see a lock-up safety that you think gives you a 90% chance of winning the game, go for the safety. Similarly, there are times you might estimate only a 10% chance of winning with an offensive approach, but because your chance of winning with a defensive shot is only 5%, you should go for the out.

My point in the first paragraph is that the defensive side probability is more sensitive to who your opponent is than is the offensive side probability, so the balance is shifted depending on who your opponent is.

Here's an 8-ball example. You're on the 8-ball which is is a few inches from a corner pocket and is close to one of your opponent's balls. You're partially hooked and can't make it without kicking for it. Your opponent has three balls left.

You see two reasonable choices

(1) kick to make the 8-ball -- 20% chance; sellout if you fail

(2) tap the 8 onto your opponent's ball, leaving him an open shot but also needing to break the cluster before he gets out.

In comparing your chance of winning for the two options, your opponent's skill level plays a big role only in the second option.

Your option 2 chance of winning might be 25% against a B player and 15% against an A player. If so, then you go for it against the A player and duck against the B player.

Likewise if you're playing a one-hole golf match against double-bogey-mike on a 200 yard par three with water before the green, you should probably lay up before the water on your tee shot to maximize your chance of winning. But if you're playing against Tiger, go for the green.

So how does all this comport with the "play the table, not the opponent" addage? I think that's something that's frequently misused. I think when deciding what to do you must consider both the table *and* your opponent. Then once you've decided on a specific course of action, you execute it without reference to who you're playing.

Double-Bogey Mike
Fargo
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Good post...I would only change one thing....make the par 3 250 yards over water...with todays technology a 200 yard par 3 is almost a birdie hole, and is never a lay up hole unless its dead into a gail storm wind....
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
i dont know if anyone else has this problem, but i would assume i am not alone here. i believe i have talked about this before, but perhaps not in a specific thread.

my biggest problem is i get those negative thoughts floating through my mind on a shot, instead of the positive ones. often times my train of thought is:

"Oh, geez, dont miss this one, you've practice this 10,000 times, if i miss i am going to be so depressed and frustrated, man i hope i dont screw this shot up"

happened to me last night on a shot that i have indeed practiced a ton. and, of course, i missed. i just kinda stood there and stared at the table and the balls, wondering why i cant get over these mental blocks.

so, i am open to suggestions here. what do i have to do to get over these negative thoughts when i stand over shots?

DCP

p.s. serious replies only, please. i dont need jokes at this point in time.
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Have you read the Inner Game Of Tennis? I tell you to read it every time you post, if you havent yet, go get it and read it!!
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
i dont know if anyone else has this problem, but i would assume i am not alone here. i believe i have talked about this before, but perhaps not in a specific thread.

my biggest problem is i get those negative thoughts floating through my mind on a shot, instead of the positive ones. often times my train of thought is:

"Oh, geez, dont miss this one, you've practice this 10,000 times, if i miss i am going to be so depressed and frustrated, man i hope i dont screw this shot up"

happened to me last night on a shot that i have indeed practiced a ton. and, of course, i missed. i just kinda stood there and stared at the table and the balls, wondering why i cant get over these mental blocks.

so, i am open to suggestions here. what do i have to do to get over these negative thoughts when i stand over shots?

DCP

p.s. serious replies only, please. i dont need jokes at this point in time.
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What others have said allready is great advice. Know what you're doing before you get down to shoot. Do it more quickly. No negative thoughts. But the key, imo, is to focus on the what I consider the only two things in a pool shot, the speed of the tip and the direction of the tip. Allways have a loose, long, fluid stroke, which gives you a long sweet spot, and focus on the spot down table where your tip is going. It keeps you from steering the cue ball. It also keeps you from looking at the object ball. Most dogged shots under pressure I believe are caused by shooting your tip at what you are focused on when you deliver your stroke, usually the object ball. When you are trying very hard, it's hard to shoot at nothing, by feel, like most good players admittedly do. It's easeir to shoot at something, like I believe most great players do. Focus on where your tip is going. Hose Parica said no one can beat him because he has the straightest stroke in the world. I think it's because he knows where to point it.

unknownpro
 
BRKNRUN said:
So thats why whenever I hear the song Werewolves of London I start playing like everything is just a stop shot.... ;)
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It funny you mentioned that. If I'm not mentally into pool but am going out to play in league, I quickly watch the Color of Money scene with that song playing and Vincent shooting, and stop where Vincent is outside yelling, "I'm a f*&%@ing pool player! I'm an animal!" Then I'm fired up and ready to go kick some ass. ;)

Jeff Livingston
 
What has helped me the most in the past 6 months (the most consistent pool I've played in 15 years) is not shooting until I'm ready. If I go through my preshot routine and get over the cue ball without a clear picture of the object ball going in and getting shape on the next one, I stand up and start all over again. Developing the maturity and self discipline to do this simple thing has taken me a long time.Who knows where my game would be if I had been able to this 12 years ago. When I reflect back on a miss 75% of them are because I wasn't "trying". I had no visualazation of my shot and/or I wasn't thinking "smooth stroke".
Good Luck
Andy
 
some super answers

You have some super answers already. One that came early from Tracey was interesting. I read something similar years ago pertaining to a sport with some similarities, pistol competition. True or false the idea that the subconscious only receives absolutes seems to be a great working concept. Don't think about what you don't want to do. While on the subject, don't think about any other negatives, bad light, table, whatever. Only focus on what you can control although there are times where that lighting can have an effect on how you play position.

Don't think, "I'm not gonna scratch in the side pocket on this shot if the english is a little off", think "the cue ball is going to strike right there, two inches below the side pocket and come around to give me perfect position."

The other thing is although you can't game out every shot in advance while you are sitting down you can think thoughts like "I am going to keep a close eye on the changing patterns and I am going to relax and play my best game." Focus on what it takes to give your very best performance while you are sitting down. Then as has been said by so many others, when it is time to execute stroke with the perfect confidence that you will get the job done. Second guessing while you are shooting is almost guaranteed to feedback into body position and stroke and booger your shot.

Work on one shot at a time, then a few balls, then a rack in "execute mode". During your turn at the table you shouldn't be thinking about anything. You had your plan before you moved down to shoot your first ball. Now there is just a tiny part of you watching your performance and it will alert you to make any changes if you break your pattern.

The "zone" is where you want to be. It seems odd but focus is the way to get there. Not focus on the tiny details, focus on producing a good performance and then turning loose of all thoughts when you bend over the table.

Ignore the competition, they aren't really relevant to your game. Shoot your best, then know that the competition has to surpass your best if they are to win.

Hu
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
i dont know if anyone else has this problem, but i would assume i am not alone here. i believe i have talked about this before, but perhaps not in a specific thread.

my biggest problem is i get those negative thoughts floating through my mind on a shot, instead of the positive ones. often times my train of thought is:

"Oh, geez, dont miss this one, you've practice this 10,000 times, if i miss i am going to be so depressed and frustrated, man i hope i dont screw this shot up"

happened to me last night on a shot that i have indeed practiced a ton. and, of course, i missed. i just kinda stood there and stared at the table and the balls, wondering why i cant get over these mental blocks.

so, i am open to suggestions here. what do i have to do to get over these negative thoughts when i stand over shots?

DCP

p.s. serious replies only, please. i dont need jokes at this point in time.
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The main point to this is if you know how to let them go and forget about the mistakes is what makes someone a champion, i had and still have thoughts like this when i get down on a shot especially for alot of money, what i do is stand back up take a breath and get down again. When these thoughts come to you do try to change them like say this shot is easy, i am going to make this piece of cake, just curious. Cole.
 
chefjeff said:
Damn, Colin...we gotta meet in person sometime.

Chanting, or poetry, can help in this case as you've indicated. Poetry tends to bypass the consicous mind and inputs info directly into the subconscious mind...that's one of its benefits AND one of its dangers. It is dangerous if the info is damaging to the self, so you're right, make the words your own and be very very very careful of their exact meaning before you send them to the subconscious mind via poetry.

DCP, maybe you have a song that inspires you...that might help.

Jeff Livingston
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Jeff,
I hope we meet sooner rather than later!

I certainly hope to visit the US in the next couple of years and meet with a few of the AZ crew :D
 
Bluey2King said:
This Really help me learn how to ski the bumps in snow skiing. I still use it In fact when I get this song in my head I see the mougles in front of me and my body is ready to take them on!!

Another thing that has helped along the same line but in pool. I got this from "The Monk". Listen to the sound of your hit......really!!
Click to expand...

I remember hearing about how the skiers used a lot of imagery in preparation for their races. You could see the guys rehearsing their ride in the starting gates.

I used to also do a lot of this when I was a decathlete, as I had to learn techniques for several different events.

Re, the sound, it has its value. I would say I try to take in all the sensory information from the shot. I try to keep still and relaxed during and after execution to get all the sensual feedback and to compare that with my pre-shot imagery. That helps with memorization, which leads to better feel of the shot.
 
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