My feelings about "Certified Technicians" finally.

realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
When I first started posting on AZ, I asked the question what does "Factory Certified" mean. All the answers were pretty much what I expected, no real technician has any real respect for the so called title. Now for my real reason for asking that question. I feel that this industry needs some kind of serious organization brought to it. I also strongly believe that ALL billiards technicians should have some sort of accredited title...but, I don't believe it should come from ANY manufacture...under any circumstances!

I believe that "WE" as billiards technicians should be the ones to police OUR own industry, by creating some kind of national standard in which we all can be proud of and have some kind of control over. Why we haven't all gotten together a long time ago is beyond my understanding.

I don't know how to go about it, but I think there needs to be some sort of board of billiards technicians that can be put together to share their knowledge and establish some sort of national way of setting up, recovering, or repairing pool tables in this industry, in such a way that tables on the east coast are worked on in the same way as on the west coast, and everywhere in between. I feel that there should be some sort of national skill level test to get a certification from the board of technicians in order for someone to call them certified, and that the skills needed to be called a "Billiards Technician" should go way beyond what it takes to be "Factory Certified". I feel that in order for a billiards technician to get certified, they should be able to work on "ALL" tables built, regardless of the manufacture.

I feel that there should be a national toll free number to call for anyone looking to have a table installed, recovered, or repaired in their area, and that the caller knows that the person that's going to do the work...is going to know what to do, and do it right...because that person has been "certified" as a technician...by a board of "Master Billiards Technicians" who approved that technicians credentials. Who wouldn't like to see something like this take place...the manufactures, home owners, room owners, bar owners?

Am I dreaming here or what...let me hear it, I'd really like to know.

Glen
 
All the talk about the players and how good they all are, all the talk about how good the pool tables are, all the talk about how great the tournaments are, all the talk about the IPT, the lack of money in this country, the amount of money players make in other countries...have you ever just "ONCE" heard about how the tables played because so-an-so did such a great job installing the cloth, setting the tables up, leveling the tables....or anything to the such? Are billiards technicians below the bottom of the barrel in this industry? Are we all so invisible to this industry, that no one cares about us?

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
All the talk about the players and how good they all are, all the talk about how good the pool tables are, all the talk about how great the tournaments are, all the talk about the IPT, the lack of money in this country, the amount of money players make in other countries...have you ever just "ONCE" heard about how the tables played because so-an-so did such a great job installing the cloth, setting the tables up, leveling the tables....or anything to the such? Are billiards technicians below the bottom of the barrel in this industry? Are we all so invisible to this industry, that no one cares about us?

Glen
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No, I see, and appreciate all you table mechanics do for our sport, Tap Tap Tap!
 
tecs

I think this is great, But the bottom line is most of the time people are looking for the best price.I have lost alot of buisness this way and gained alot this way. A neighbor of mine once asked how much i would tear down a Brunswick centenial table across town and set it up at his house with new Simonis. I told hom 500.00 He thought i insulted him and tore it down himself with some buddies. Needless to say they set it up wrong and wanted me to fix it. We went around and around when i told him the same price. I once had a sign in my shop that said twenty dollars and hour ten dollars for a half hour and 100 dollars and hour if you already messed with it. But the bottom line is people are cheap and do not realize what it takes to make a table play good.So they decide to save some money up front because there body says i no sombody that does tables.Then they get a cheaper price and end up calling us in the end. I am getting off the subject a little bit but how are you going to change peoples minds about spending more money up front for a good job. I do not think a certificate will do it. I my self warranty all my work and tell the people on the phone i give free estimates. that is when i try to explain everything that i have to do to get the table playing good. Also i tell them i want them there because you never no what is under the felt and it may run into more money. I want them to see the others mistakes and what i am fixing. That is probably hard for others that do tables all over the world.
Thanx, Ron
www.lccsbilliards.com
 
Look at plumbers, auto mechanics, electricians, carpenters, lawyers...LMAO...but it's true. They have it all going on...so how come we don't? I'm not interested in setting prices...only in the referrals...it's the referrals that keep you busy, not fixing the work of others, but you'd be surprised at the numbers of people that would like the ability to find someone good at doing our job...just look at the requests here on AZ looking for good technicians...now imagine that on a national level. Having the ability of being nationally certified to me, would me that you'd never have to LOOK for work again...work would find you!

Glen

PS. There's a lot more to this than meets the eye, as I get a chance I'll explain.
 
work

I hardly never look for work. It is just like you said. If you are in the skilled trades the work will find you. Before i started this buisness i tried other buisneses and they failed.That is when i took a buisness class and talked to others and they said if you want it bad enough you will find away to make it work. By god i wanted a billiard buisness and it has worked.
Thanx, Ron
 
Certified Technicians...

With regard to the comment about table owners' being more concerned about price than the quality of the work, I would like to elaborate on that perspective very briefly. This is an almost universal problem with any service, commodity, or product...there is much confusion or ignorance on price (cost) vs. value...these are NOT mutually exclusive terms...rather, value clearly reflects the full compliment of price, service, quality, responsiveness, and accountability where price is just that....PRICE...!!!
I'm not a table mechanic, but I am a life-long pool player and Brunswick antique table (the Challenger @ 1939) owner...but, I do understand and fully support what Realkingcobra is recommending with regard to the table mechanics' industry as a whole...I would fully subscribe, endorse, and support the services of a nationally recognized of group of table mechanics who were certified through a universally-accepted program of certification qualifications which THEY, not the manufacturers, developed and maintained.
 
I don't mind paying 'THE PRICE' if I believe I am getting my moneys worth.
As a matter of fact when I solicit quotes for a job I usually eliminate the low bid because I don't want a half-ass job done. Along with that I try to get info regarding previous work to eliminate the scammers and flakes.That's why when we find a good technician reagrdless whether it's for you car, the plumbing or the pool table we tend to hang on to them like a long lost brother.

For the above mentioned reasons I would love to see some sort of certification that we could trust.
 
That would be a great idea. Unfortunately it would put guys like me out of work. Although I do jam up work on all models of tables, due to the region that I am from and the limited amount of advanced work I have experience with, I would not qualifiy for your certification as you see it.
I agree that as a certified mechanic, you should be able to everything but there would be a lot of techs on the bubble of that talent range. Having said that, there needs to be a solid training program out there where people can go to get the advanced skills that someone such as Glen have. I for one would be first in line. :D
 
I too respect the work of a good table mechanic. I have seen first hand some of the hackjobs done by supposed "table mechanics"

When I purchased my Gold Crown, I had a dealer contracted to do the table move, recloth and triple shim the pockets. Since I bought the table for 600 dollars, I could afford what I thought would be excellent service.

I was assured from the manager that they were sending his number one mechanics to do the job. I wish I had pictures of the job they did on the shims, you could see every shim through the cloth, they did not shave or sand them from the top, and the facings of the shims were uneven along the rails.
 
Tony_in_MD said:
I too respect the work of a good table mechanic. I have seen first hand some of the hackjobs done by supposed "table mechanics"

When I purchased my Gold Crown, I had a dealer contracted to do the table move, recloth and triple shim the pockets. Since I bought the table for 600 dollars, I could afford what I thought would be excellent service.

I was assured from the manager that they were sending his number one mechanics to do the job. I wish I had pictures of the job they did on the shims, you could see every shim through the cloth, they did not shave or sand them from the top, and the facings of the shims were uneven along the rails.
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That's the problem. Many of the "local dealers" best guys still lack proper training and are thrown into the position and forced to learn the hard way. That's why it is imperative to establish some sort of school for this. They have it for everything else! The last training course I was at was a joke. Thier were people that couldn't felt a rail and they left there with a "certificate". Now there dealer can say he is certified when he is just a begginer.
 
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NineBallNut said:
That would be a great idea. Unfortunately it would put guys like me out of work. Although I do jam up work on all models of tables, due to the region that I am from and the limited amount of advanced work I have experience with, I would not qualifiy for your certification as you see it.
I agree that as a certified mechanic, you should be able to everything but there would be a lot of techs on the bubble of that talent range. Having said that, there needs to be a solid training program out there where people can go to get the advanced skills that someone such as Glen have. I for one would be first in line. :D
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aaaahhh...how about learning from the DVDs at home, study them real good until you know them by heart...then come and take your test to become certified?...LOL...if you've been learning all along...it shouldn't be to hard to skip the 6 months of schooling...LOL

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
aaaahhh...how about learning from the DVDs at home, study them real good until you know them by heart...then come and take your test to become certified?...LOL...if you've been learning all along...it shouldn't be to hard to skip the 6 months of schooling...LOL

Glen
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Lol, true but no amount of learning by watching beats hands on experience. It's the right start but you have to put it to action to master the techiques.
 
The concept has a lot of merit and I like the idea - just don't see it taking off without a lot of work and marketing. The DVD is a good idea but there are many that are already available. You might check Randy Fromms site (http://randyfromm.com/amusements/arcadeschool/) for some marketing ideas on the DVDs.
Randy also holds live seminars for arcade game and equipment repair so that's an avenue you might look into as far as doing a school for table installers/technicians. Table dealers would be a target market for that but unless your name is Brunswick or Valley I'd imagine they would scrutinize your credentials. I reckon nothing ever happens without taking a first step so good luck with your idea.
 
I think it's a great idea,you could start a website and charge for referals of qualified techs in all 50 states,sell your dvd's and table mechanic supplies to all of us.
 
Listen, the nitty gritty of what I'm talking about I guess in plan English would be a billiards technician union. A union that you can't just join and go to work, a union that means something to this industry and the people that it represents. Let me ask you something. Manufactures are going to build cheap pool tables because someone is going to buy them unknowing of the piss poor quality of the tables. Manufactures are going to make shit cloth if they think they can make a dime off it, and it's going to get sold to someone. Any billiards technician that's spent any amount of time in this business is going to run into the shit that exists. Now ask yourself something. Who installed these tables and installed the shit cloth? Billiards technicians that's who, I guess trying to make a living.

Know how to stop this ripping off of the market? By not letting the manufactures review and rate their own pool tables by posting all kinds of comments by so called satisfied customers that have bought their products...it's nothing but bullshit for the most part. I think that ALL pool tables as well as cloth should have a "Billiards Technician Union" a "BTU" rating of some sort. THEN, anyone wanting to know the truth about buying a new or used pool table would know on a scale of 1 to 10, where that table sits, same as cloth. I'm not pushing a "UNION" as everyone would think, I'm more talking about some kind of "Nationally Accredited Billiards Technician Academy" school/union/product review board/technician referral/help hot line/call for advice/complaint board etc...location somewhere USA that means if you build bullshit and intend to sell it in this industry by fooling the public...you won't get it past the Union unless it passes our inspection first...and we know there needs to be cheap prices as well as expensive, so we will not give a rating below a 1, but we will not endorse NO junk shit just so you can make a profit. Thats how you stop the thieves in this industry.

Not only all of the above, but what about the cloth, rail rubber, pockets, what ever, buying power of a couple of hundred billiards technicians put together buying through a Union? hmmmm, kinda makes you wonder doesn't it?

When the first pool table was built hundreds of years ago, the first billiards technicians job became available at the same time! Why hasn't the billiards technicians "union" evolved right along with the carpenters union?

I'm hot, so I guess I'm just rambling...

Glen
 
Dartman said:
The concept has a lot of merit and I like the idea - just don't see it taking off without a lot of work and marketing. The DVD is a good idea but there are many that are already available. You might check Randy Fromms site (http://randyfromm.com/amusements/arcadeschool/) for some marketing ideas on the DVDs.
Randy also holds live seminars for arcade game and equipment repair so that's an avenue you might look into as far as doing a school for table installers/technicians. Table dealers would be a target market for that but unless your name is Brunswick or Valley I'd imagine they would scrutinize your credentials. I reckon nothing ever happens without taking a first step so good luck with your idea.
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I have the best company on earth to make and market the DVDs already. As far as already having DVDs on the market to learn to recover pool tables...they're a joke, and this market NEEDS to change, and I agree with you...it's not going to be easy, but I think I can get a lot of help from people just like me that want to see change. As far as billiards retail stores go, and Brunswick/Valley I feel that they would endorse this change with open arms, along with every other manufacture of quality but low end, but not junk pool tables.

Glen
 
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realkingcobra said:
I think that ALL pool tables as well as cloth should have a "Billiards Technician Union" a "BTU" rating of some sort. THEN, anyone wanting to know the truth about buying a new or used pool table would know on a scale of 1 to 10, where that table sits, same as cloth. I'm not pushing a "UNION" as everyone would think, I'm more talking about some kind of "Nationally Accredited Billiards Technician Academy" school/union/product review board/technician referral/help hot line/call for advice/complaint board etc...location somewhere USA that means if you build bullshit and intend to sell it in this industry by fooling the public...you won't get it past the Union unless it passes our inspection first...
I'm hot, so I guess I'm just rambling...Glen
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Yep, you're rambling and losing focus on the main theme which is certifying table mechanics for installs, repairs, moves and recovers. On the other hand I like the rambling idea of a "consumer reports" for tables, cloth, pieces and parts.
More and more people do their research on the web before making big ticket purchases and "buyer reviews" certainly have some influence on buying decisions.
 
After waking up this morning and reading what I posted, I was definitely rambling last night...LOL. But "buyers reviews" are SO misleading and full of it that it stinks. They are nothing but a load of crap, intended to mislead the public into buying their products. You ever heard of a "Billiard Technicians Review" of ANY pool tables or cloth? No, all you ever hear or read about is how satisfied the buyer was, then when the table starts falling apart, or it gets recovered by another technician, then the customer really finds out just what it is they bought...after the fact. To many times I've gone out to move a pool table someone bought from someone else and have turned down the job when I got there and saw the pool table, on the basis that it's not worth my time, because the charge to move, setup, and recover was worth more than the table, and I'm not going to work for less than what's fair for my time involved. When I adjust the price to fit the job, the buyer always backs out...oh well, I always have other work to do all the time. I'd rather go fishing than support the junk in this industry!...LOL

Glen
 
Back on track, the bottom line is I want to see some kind of certification means of rating billiards technicians in the following categories.


"Apprentice" "Billiards Technician" and "Master Billiards Technician" and have the titles mean something, and not so easy to get that all you have to do is print it on a business card. Not like a so called PRO pool tournament where ANYONE who pays the entry fee can play, pro or not.

And some kind of Billiards Academy School for those who want to go to school to learn this profession from professionals...so we can slow down all the hacking of this industry and start to get it on track for the future of our jobs and our sport.

Glen

Anything else can come later. So lets all put our brains together and solve this problem...I'm sure we can if we all come together on this.
 
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