My First New Cue that i'm proud to own

[Bamacues]

Beginner,
IMHO, all of the advice given here has been extremely sound advice. All the cuemakers listed make quality products. I have owned at least 1 of each cuemaker listed. Coker makes a nice cue with a good hit...very handsome work. They have a nice hit (not a SW, but MUCH less expensive...with the current market, you could probably pick a nice one up for less than $600). I have found Grady, Tom and Michi to be fabulous people to work with. Kenny Murrell is a master machinist, and his work shows it. Capone and Jensen are also great cues, in much demand, especially Capone. Blue Grass is a wonderful playing cue, but Richard Harris is not taking orders at this time, so you would have to find one on the open market that you like. All the cues talked about earlier are excellent also. It just comes down to what you like, how much you want to pay and how long you are willing to wait.

 

[coastydad]

I think addictive is a much better descriptor than contagious! I know I'm about to start counseling to try to curb my cue buying appetite.

Zack, Zack, Zack...we can get you throught this man! I know that you can kick this thing. Hey, did you see that Mottey...

 

[zeeder]

Zack, Zack, Zack...we can get you throught this man! I know that you can kick this thing. Hey, did you see that Mottey...

You're an enabler, you know that...lol?!

 

[JimBo]

All the cues talked about earlier are excellent also.

Hey Bama, in your opinion who makes a crappy cue??

Jim

 

[Bamacues]

Hey Bama, in your opinion who makes a crappy cue??

Jim

I have had a few crappy cues made by good cuemakers, but I think most had probably had some abuse before I got them. There are also some cues made which I don't like, but others do (I can't stand those multicolored diamondwood or composite cues, but many people like them, so whatever floats their boat...).

I have also seen some cues that are crappy. That goes for production cues as well. Meucci had a real quality control issue a couple of years ago, but they are much better now (I received one Cameo cue with the points incomplete and the Cameos upside down).

While I won't mention any specific custom cuemakers, I have seen several Phillipine custom cues that have poor construction, poor finish, bad inlay and many other flaws. I have also run across a few cues made by some folks in the states who could have done a better job, also. All the cuemakers that have been referenced in this thread make very nice, but different, cues...just my opinion (that and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks).

Which cuemakers from the thread do you think are inferior? Here are the cuemakers that I see listed in the thread:

Kenny Murrell
Mike Capone
Blue Grass (Richard Harris)
Jensen (Mike Johnson)
Coker
Southwest
Mike Webb
Tim Scruggs
Russ Espiritu
Andy Gilbert
Rick Phillippi
Bob Frey
Blud
Paul Mottey
Mike Lambros
Richard Black
James White

You have to admit there are some pretty good cuemakers in the list...maybe not all on the same level, but pretty a pretty good list to choose your "first custom cue" from as beginner indicated he wants to do.

 

[runscott]

I have had a few crappy cues made by good cuemakers, but I think most had probably had some abuse before I got them. There are also some cues made which I don't like, but others do (I can't stand those multicolored diamondwood or composite cues, but many people like them, so whatever floats their boat...).

I have also seen some cues that are crappy. That goes for production cues as well. Meucci had a real quality control issue a couple of years ago, but they are much better now (I received one Cameo cue with the points incomplete and the Cameos upside down).

While I won't mention any specific custom cuemakers, I have seen several Phillipine custom cues that have poor construction, poor finish, bad inlay and many other flaws. I have also run across a few cues made by some folks in the states who could have done a better job, also. All the cuemakers that have been referenced in this thread make very nice, but different, cues...just my opinion (that and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks).

Which cuemakers from the thread do you think are inferior? Here are the cuemakers that I see listed in the thread:

Kenny Murrell
Mike Capone
Blue Grass (Richard Harris)
Jensen (Mike Johnson)
Coker
Southwest
Mike Webb
Tim Scruggs
Russ Espiritu
Andy Gilbert
Rick Phillippi
Bob Frey
Blud
Paul Mottey
Mike Lambros
Richard Black
James White

You have to admit there are some pretty good cuemakers in the list...maybe not all on the same level, but pretty a pretty good list to choose your "first custom cue" from as beginner indicated he wants to do.

...and he swallows the bait all the way up to the sinker.

 

[ARM9BALLER]

While I won't mention any specific custom cuemakers, I have seen several Phillipine custom cues that have poor construction, poor finish, bad inlay and many other flaws. QUOTE]

Could we at least rule out Viattorre? I have never heard a bad thing about his cues nor do I want anybody getting the wrong idea about him when you mention Filipino cues. I am ordering a cue from him now. Soon to be a proud owner of a Viattorre. 7 months he says the wait is, but it will be all worth it when I come home that day and see the package in my living room...

 

[JimBo]

I have had a few crappy cues made by good cuemakers, but I think most had probably had some abuse before I got them. There are also some cues made which I don't like, but others do (I can't stand those multicolored diamondwood or composite cues, but many people like them, so whatever floats their boat...).

That was a lot of typing to say nothing. Let me see if I got it right You believe that good cuemakers have never made crappy cues, they are only abused?

I have also seen some cues that are crappy. That goes for production cues as well. Meucci had a real quality control issue a couple of years ago, but they are much better now (I received one Cameo cue with the points incomplete and the Cameos upside down).

So you almost gave an opinion about Meucci, but right before you took the leap you covered yourself by saying how they are much better now. 2 points I'll add I think Meucci had better quality in the past (not now) and I think if you had that cameo you should have kept it, it may have been worth more then one done right.

While I won't mention any specific custom cuemakers, I have seen several Phillipine custom cues that have poor construction, poor finish, bad inlay and many other flaws. I have also run across a few cues made by some folks in the states who could have done a better job, also. All the cuemakers that have been referenced in this thread make very nice, but different, cues...just my opinion (that and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks).

Once again you talk and say nothing, what good is your opinion when you are afraid to be honest? How can anyone take advice from someone who is scared to give names on bad work? I'm never really sure if people are scared to say something bad or they just have no clue what the subtle differences are.

Which cuemakers from the thread do you think are inferior? Here are the cuemakers that I see listed in the thread:

LOL you want me to do what you were afraid to do, that is really funny.
Do you somehow feel you tricked me here? I mean runscout does LOL.

Kenny Murrell <---No Scruggs
Mike Capone<--- Great new cuemaker,wish he had more creativity

Blue Grass (Richard Harris)<--No personal dealings, but from what I've seen I'm not a fan.Jensen (Mike Johnson)
Coker <---Should never be mentioned in the same breath as Southwest,unless of course you're trying to sell them on e-bay.
Southwest<---Top quality, 8 year wait speaks for itself. Hit and consistancy are top notch.
Mike Webb <---Getting better every day, I wasn't a fan of his work 3 years ago, I made an offer on one last night.Tim Scruggs <---A true legend, top 3 on this list.
Russ Espiritu<------Has also jumped in my opinion in the past 5 years great value.
Andy Gilbert<---One of the top new comers, great value.
Rick Phillippi<---Design thief, I wouldn't buy his cues for nothing.
Bob Frey<---Learned from the best, great sneaky petes
Blud<---I've never seen more warped cues from anyone, he may have gotten better?
Paul Mottey<---Top 3 today IMO
Mike Lambros<----Great hit, Top quality, his joint is innovative.
Richard Black<----30+ years and still going says something for him, I've seen some of the most innovative stuff from him and some bad copies, I've also seen good work and bad, but with his body of work you're bound to have both ends of the spectrum.

James White<---Works with one of today’s best and prolly does most of the work (Paul has earned that) you buy a JW and you're getting a Mottey IMO, you can't go wrong.

You have to admit there are some pretty good cuemakers in the list...maybe not all on the same level, but pretty a pretty good list to choose your "first custom cue" from as beginner indicated he wants to do.

I'm not afraid to give opinions, and I know most of the people on the list personally so it's a bit tougher for me (or not LOL). The fact is the list is very diverse and not close. To put guys like Mike Webb, Richard Harris, and Kenny Murrell in the same sentences as Scruggs, SouthWest, and Mottey just isn't fare to them or honest to this beginner. He needs to know why Southwest has an 8 year wait and in every e-bay add people claim that Coker is "just like" them. Fact is I'm not trashing someone like Mike Webb it's just that there are reasons why the others have the resale and the reputation and the wait time, and all these things play into price and availability and investment potential of cues. Many people out there today make quality cues. There are even people on the list who are doing better quality work then some bigger names and they need to because they aren't as well established yet. Some are on this list, but until someone is educated they won't know what to look for and by the time they are they will have missed the window. The window is to get in when these guys are still affordable and you can get the cue quick. Some of these guys will have the long wait lists and expensive cues in the next few years, some will never. Just please don't mislead people with your fear of insulting people, Coker cues are nice, they will never be Southwests ect. ect.

Jim

 

[runscott]

LOL you want me to do what you were afraid to do, that is really funny.
Do you somehow feel you tricked me here? I mean runscout does LOL.
Jim

The perpetually perplexing purple post parser strikes again.

 

[bedheaded]

Ya know you can get a "SW Style" 6 point Coker for like $600 - $700 right now... he is kinda out of fashion for some reason... I know a couple people that own cokers and really like the way they hit... You could get a nice one custom made for you for around $1,000 easily too I think...

The fall-2005 retail price for six point Cokers w/o inlays is $700, but you can have a custom Coker with Tom's signature index rings built to your specifications anywhere from $400 up to high-end 16 and 20 pointers. There are even some sub-$400 options available w/o ringwork.

The Cokers are great people to deal with and Tom certainly stands by his work.

Mike
www.matadorcustomcues.com

 

[Bamacues]

While I won't mention any specific custom cuemakers, I have seen several Phillipine custom cues that have poor construction, poor finish, bad inlay and many other flaws. QUOTE]

Could we at least rule out Viattorre? I have never heard a bad thing about his cues nor do I want anybody getting the wrong idea about him when you mention Filipino cues. I am ordering a cue from him now. Soon to be a proud owner of a Viattorre. 7 months he says the wait is, but it will be all worth it when I come home that day and see the package in my living room...

You can certainly rule out Viatorre...Jackson Tan is working on a customization project for me now. Their work is excellent.

 

[Bamacues]

I'm not afraid to give opinions, and I know most of the people on the list personally so it's a bit tougher for me (or not LOL). The fact is the list is very diverse and not close. To put guys like Mike Webb, Richard Harris, and Kenny Murrell in the same sentences as Scruggs, SouthWest, and Mottey just isn't fare to them or honest to this beginner. He needs to know why Southwest has an 8 year wait and in every e-bay add people claim that Coker is "just like" them. Fact is I'm not trashing someone like Mike Webb it's just that there are reasons why the others have the resale and the reputation and the wait time, and all these things play into price and availability and investment potential of cues. Many people out there today make quality cues. There are even people on the list who are doing better quality work then some bigger names and they need to because they aren't as well established yet. Some are on this list, but until someone is educated they won't know what to look for and by the time they are they will have missed the window. The window is to get in when these guys are still affordable and you can get the cue quick. Some of these guys will have the long wait lists and expensive cues in the next few years, some will never. Just please don't mislead people with your fear of insulting people, Coker cues are nice, they will never be Southwests ect. ect.

Jim

I think the line goes "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

I actually agree with a lot of what you say. The list of cuemakers contains true legends, up and comers, and some others. The axiom goes that there are 3 things you can't combine in a product. You can not have it fast, good and cheap....best you can do is to pick two.

I am an advocate of the game and the profession. I will not speak ill of people (like cuemakers) with whom I have had no bad dealings. I have only been doing this (collecting and dealing cues) for about 5 years or so (I must admit that I have been a player since 1963...can't do the math, though), so I will defer to your broader expertise in the area of custom cues. My opinions are based on my experiences only, not second or third hand stories.

I feel all the cuemakers listed make quality products. Certainly Coker cues are not SW (I play with an SW daily), but they are a tremendous buy for an entry level custom cue, and they are tremendous people to work with. I know you hate the cliche, but they are a great cue "for the money".

I am surprised that you don't like Richard Harris cues ( I think they are great, but I have only owned 2, so my experience is limited), and that you have had major issues with Blud's cues (I own and have owned many, without any issues). Wonder why so many legendary players played with his cues?

 

[JimBo]

I think the line goes "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

I agree with that 100% but I get worried when people come looking for advice and get wishy washy ass kissing BS just because people either don't know or are scared to say the truth.

I actually agree with a lot of what you say.

But you didn't have the balls to type it.

The list of cuemakers contains true legends, up and comers, and some others. The axiom goes that there are 3 things you can't combine in a product. You can not have it fast, good and cheap....best you can do is to pick two.

That's also prolly a good saying, but the fact is the way the info was laid out here the new guy wouldn't know what the three things are and who posessed which of them. When you just speak well of everyone he isn't informed enough to make the proper choice as to which three are important to him at this time. I also think that he needed to give more info like a price range. But the fact is he got a list of cuemakers with no REAL info so if he were to look into it on his own (or worse buy something)the clear choice may have been a Coker because for $500 he could get one tomorrow, so why wait 8 years or pay 2K more??

I am an advocate of the game and the profession. I will not speak ill of people (like cuemakers) with whom I have had no bad dealings.

Seems like you won't speak ill of anyone even when you've had bad dealings.

I have only been doing this (collecting and dealing cues) for about 5 years or so (I must admit that I have been a player since 1963...can't do the math, though), so I will defer to your broader expertise in the area of custom cues. My opinions are based on my experiences only, not second or third hand stories.

I'm just looking for honesty, and most people who come looking want the same before the fork over their cash, that's why they come here asking.

I feel all the cuemakers listed make quality products. Certainly Coker cues are not SW (I play with an SW daily), but they are a tremendous buy for an entry level custom cue, and they are tremendous people to work with. I know you hate the cliche, but they are a great cue "for the money".

I don't hate the term, in fact I agree with it 100%, but again it's not how it was laid out for the guy. There are reasons why people have long wait lists and there are reasons a 4 point cue from one guy costs 2k while it's 500 from another. These are the things that people need to be educated about and when people who have paid the 500 or bought from the person with a 3 month wait try to sell these cues on the forum to make a profit or just to feel better about their choice it's counterproductive to the cue market. But the fact is it goes on every day here and I worry that some people can't see through the BS and the used car salesman mentality.

I am surprised that you don't like Richard Harris cues ( I think they are great, but I have only owned 2, so my experience is limited), and that you have had major issues with Blud's cues (I own and have owned many, without any issues). Wonder why so many legendary players played with his cues?

1 year I was at VF and a friend of mine (who respects my opinion) wanted to buy a cue, he said he hit with and liked a Blud, I said I'd take a look at it for him. The cue looked ok (not my taste) and the price was right, but when I rolled it the thing was so bad I couldn't believe it. I picked up another and tried it, then another, well after about 6 cues I found a good one. I couldn't believe it, needless to say he didn't buy a blud that year (or ever) and I never would either. Not to mention I've heard the man telling people he can turn a cue from start to finish in 2 weeks, whenever I heard that I thought back to all the warped cues and knew he wasn't joking. I have nothing against the man, just don't care for his work. As far as wondering why people play with his cues, well, first off I don't know of many top pros that do, but Earl and Alison play with cuetechs and Archer plays with a fiberglass cuetech knockoff, so please don't wonder anymore about why people choose the cues they play with. Guys on that level can win with any cue and very few play with what they like best.

Jim

 

[Bamacues]

1 year I was at VF and a friend of mine (who respects my opinion) wanted to buy a cue, he said he hit with and liked a Blud, I said I'd take a look at it for him. The cue looked ok (not my taste) and the price was right, but when I rolled it the thing was so bad I couldn't believe it. I picked up another and tried it, then another, well after about 6 cues I found a good one. I couldn't believe it, needless to say he didn't buy a blud that year (or ever) and I never would either. Not to mention I've heard the man telling people he can turn a cue from start to finish in 2 weeks, whenever I heard that I thought back to all the warped cues and knew he wasn't joking. I have nothing against the man, just don't care for his work. As far as wondering why people play with his cues, well, first off I don't know of many top pros that do, but Earl and Alison play with cuetechs and Archer plays with a fiberglass cuetech knockoff, so please don't wonder anymore about why people choose the cues they play with. Guys on that level can win with any cue and very few play with what they like best.

Jim

Jim, I respect your opinion also, and we could probably all have done a better job directing Beginner to cuemakers who would make a great cue for the $1500-2000 he has to spend. He also has to understand that none of the really great cuemakers are going to "make" him a custom cue in any short period of time.

Beginner, if you want a really nice collectible quality cue, stick to the folks like Scruggs, SW, Black, Lambros, Blue Grass, Mottey,White (I forgot to mention Black Boar in my listing...another great cue, but difficult to get). These are the folks IMO from the listing who will make you a cue that will certainly appreciate over time. The issue is that you will have to get one off the market rather than have one made unless you are willing to wait for a substantial time frame.

All the others listed make good cues for less money with shorter wait periods. You have to decide what you want, if you want it made specifically to your liking, and how long you are willing to wait to get it.