My Little Rant

[jmurphy]

There is an issue that has bugged the hell out of me for a long time now. I am sure some will flame me for it but screw it some times you just have to say what is on your mind.
Through my years around pool and it's players a lot of the Men are their own worst enemies.
If someone sponsor's you with a custom cue or custom cue case please show some class and return it to the sponsor if there comes a time you no longer wish to use their equipment. I am sick and tired of seeing players go bust and pawn off their cue or case because it means nothing to them showing total disrespect to those in the business who have been generous to them.
I am positive that you would see a lot more custom cue and case makers stepping forward and be willing to sponsor players with their equipment if the guys would show some class and proudly represent their sponsors in a good light.

 

[mullyman]

So basically what you are saying is that the players should feel like their gear is on loan and not really theirs?
MULLY
not a flame

 

[markpatrick]

When someone builds you a Custom Que

So basically what you are saying is that the players should feel like their gear is on loan and not really theirs?
MULLY
not a flame

It is meant for you to use in events and wagering, and when asked your asked? Who made your que, you give their name and let them check it out. My brother has made ques for many professional players and one of the quys just the other night aired out an opponent and tried to give him the que valued at 2000 to pay off a 150 air barrel?

Pretty cool huh.......... I would of drove across town and gave him 150, hell there was 500 worth of ivory inlays in that stick.

 

[zy112]

Is their a particular player(s) you are referring to?

 

[jmurphy]

So basically what you are saying is that the players should feel like their gear is on loan and not really theirs?
MULLY
not a flame

I understand where you are coming from.
And I hope you can see my point of view also?
How would you like it if you gave a player a beautiful custom cue or case with the thought that you are:
A. Helping the Player out.
B. Getting your name out in the market place.
Only to find out the 2 months later he pawned off that $4,000 cue for $600 bucks because he went bust?
I have seen this kind of behavior over & over again and IMHO some of the Player's selfishness knows no bounds and shows a total lack of integrity on their behalf.

 

[jmurphy]

Is their a particular player(s) you are referring to?

I have seen this a number of times but I am not going to call anyone out by name because that would surely serve no purpose but to start a total sh*t storm.

But I will tell you a true story about Dave Bollman. I grew up in Va. Beach Va. playing pool at Q-Masters. Tony (Black Boar) gave Dave Bollman a beautiful cue to play with and after about 5 years went by I inquired with Dave about possibly buying his Black Boar. Dave told me that he would never sell his Black Boar cue and if he ever stopped using it that he would send it back to Tony. I always respected Dave as a Player but when he told me that, he showed me that he was a person with character. Here is a photo of Dave and the Black Boar in question.

 

[mullyman]

I understand where you are coming from.
And I hope you can see my point of view also?
How would you like it if you gave a player a beautiful custom cue or case with the thought that you are:
A. Helping the Player out.
B. Getting your name out in the market place.
Only to find out the 2 months later he pawned off that $4,000 cue for $600 bucks because he went bust?
I have seen this kind of behavior over & over again and IMHO some of the Player's selfishness knows no bounds and shows a total lack of integrity on their behalf.

In my opinion, I don't think a custom cue maker should *give*anything away. Different topic but along the same lines, Mesa Boogie amplifiers doesn't give anything to the artists, they have to pay full fare like anyone else......and Mesa is one of the top amps used by a lot of bands.
MULLY

 

[JB Cases]

There is an issue that has bugged the hell out of me for a long time now. I am sure some will flame me for it but screw it some times you just have to say what is on your mind.
Threw my years around pool and it's players a lot of the Men are their own worst enemies.
If someone sponsor's you with a custom cue or custom cue case please show some class and return it to the sponsor if there comes a time you no longer wish to use their equipment. I am sick and tired of seeing players go bust and pawn off their cue or case because it means nothing to them showing total disrespect to those in the business who have been generous to them.
I am positive that you would see a lot more custom cue and case makers stepping forward and be willing to sponsor players with their equipment if the guys would show some class and proudly represent their sponsors in a good light.

As a person who has put a lot of cases in player's hands and one who has seen players completely disrespect their cue sponsors by selling or gambling away the cues, lying to the sponsors about the cues being stolen, playing with other brand cues while receiving money and cues as spsonsorship, I completely and wholeheartedly agree with this statement of yours.

From a sponsor's perspective it hurts a lot to see this happen. You give a player a cue or a case and you hope that they will represent you well and you are proud that they are willing to use your gear. And then when they gamble it away, sell it for a pittance because they went broke, give your stuff away and play with whatever they can get out of the next guy down the road it stings a lot and makes you wary to sponsor someone else.

And before some of you go off and talk about the "value" of the sponsorship I have seen players who were getting CASH every month put down the cue brand that they were being sponsored by and pick up another brand and use it in tournaments. If you don't want to play with a cue then terminate the relationship, don't keep accepting cues and money if you aren't going to represent the brand professionally.

 

[CK6Speed]

What is so hard about having a simple contract that both parties agree to during the sponsorship? Once that contract obligation is over, the one sponsored should be able to do anything he wants with the equipment and the sponsor should have the right to re-sponsor the player or go their separate ways.

When I was sponsored for certain automotive aftermarket parts, part of my contract was I had to advertise/show my car at certain car shows for 18 months. I owned the parts, just had to be sure to honor the contract or any breach of that contract would result in me paying retail for said parts. Once that 18 months was up I was no longer under any contract or obligation and could do whatever I wanted with my parts. It's like cheap advertisement for the sponsoring company. They got to use my car as well as any other cars their sponsored as rolling advertisements especially at the car shows if your car places in the event. It's much cheaper for them that way then having to build all the cars themselves from scratch.

 

[JB Cases]

Along those lines Mully I have always admired the advertisement by Wayne Gunn cues.

From "The Snap" magazine.

'we don't pay players to play with Gunn cues. If you see a top player playing with a Gunn Cue then he paid us.'

And another one from Thomas Wayne. I was standing there talking to Thomas one show and a player came up to him and started asking about getting a cue as a sponsorship. Thomas said no. The player then asked Thomas, "do you know how many cues you could sell if I played with your cue?"

Thomas replies, "could it be more than I can make which is what I am selling now?"

 

[JB Cases]

What is so hard about having a simple contract that both parties agree to during the sponsorship? Once that contract obligation is over, the one sponsored should be able to do anything he wants with the equipment and the sponsor should have the right to re-sponsor the player or go their separate ways.

When I was sponsored for certain automotive aftermarket parts, part of my contract was I had to advertise/show my car at certain car shows for 18 months. I owned the parts, just had to be sure to honor the contract or any breach of that contract would result in me paying retail for said parts. Once that 18 months was up I was no longer under any contract or obligation and could do whatever I wanted with my parts. It's like cheap advertisement for the sponsoring company. They got to use my car as well as any other cars their sponsored as rolling advertisements especially at the car shows if your car places in the event. It's much cheaper for them that way then having to build all the cars themselves from scratch.

I think that most of the time it's small makers who are doing handshake deals. They get into it with a lot of enthusiasm and trust. The wholesalers and bigger cue companies do generally have contracts now.

The scenario that Jmurphy points out about a person getting "sponsored" with a 2k plus cue who then subsequently sells it for $500 down the road is fairly common in the pool world unfortunately.

I once made a case for Jimmy Reid. Most people know him as "hippie Jimmy" but he preferred "Diamond Jim". So I thought about how to do his case and I settled on doing a red diamond with his name looping through it. I did all the embroidery myself by hand. I guess I was about 22/23 when I made that case.

When it was done he gushed over it and said it was the best thing he had ever gotten in pool. I was beaming.

Two years later I see him coming out the doors at the Riviera Hotel in Las Vegas and I say hello and ask him how the case is holding up. He says he lost it gambling. I was pretty crushed. Then he asked me to borrow $50 - and I gave it to him.

In contrast I made a case for Allen Hopkins and he still has it to this day and tells me that it's one of his greatest treasures and the only reason he doesn't carry it is that he is no longer sponsored by some of the companies I embroidered on the case.

 

[zy112]

I agree with you guys, jmurphy and JB. It would be heartbreaking to put so much effort into a product that you are proud of, then have a player 'ditch" it for whatever reason. With that said, CK has a good point. A simple contract might resolve this relatively easily. Bc I don't think a player should be "owned for a lifetime" if they have gear given to them, but they should certainly do their part in supporting the particular brand for a given time. It is also IMO pretty unethical to endorse something you don't truely believe in or want to use.

Of course I am not sponsered, but I have the pride in the cue I use its almost like a sponsorship and I spread the good word about products I like. It would be nice to see that attitude more widespread among top players.

 

[jrackman]

I think that most of the time it's small makers who are doing handshake deals. They get into it with a lot of enthusiasm and trust. The wholesalers and bigger cue companies do generally have contracts now.

The scenario that Jmurphy points out about a person getting "sponsored" with a 2k plus cue who then subsequently sells it for $500 down the road is fairly common in the pool world unfortunately.

I once made a case for Jimmy Reid. Most people know him as "hippie Jimmy" but he preferred "Diamond Jim". So I thought about how to do his case and I settled on doing a red diamond with his name looping through it. I did all the embroidery myself by hand. I guess I was about 22/23 when I made that case.

When it was done he gushed over it and said it was the best thing he had ever gotten in pool. I was beaming.

Two years later I see him coming out the doors at the Riviera Hotel in Las Vegas and I say hello and ask him how the case is holding up. He says he lost it gambling. I was pretty crushed. Then he asked me to borrow $50 - and I gave it to him.

In contrast I made a case for Allen Hopkins and he still has it to this day and tells me that it's one of his greatest treasures and the only reason he doesn't carry it is that he is no longer sponsored by some of the companies I embroidered on the case.

just my thoughts, Allen Hopkins is the one person in the pool world that has been on the up and up for 40 yrs not many can say that, if the pro players would have gone with him back in the late 80's early 90's, pool would be a lot better shape then it is now. so I'm glad Allen did good because he never tried to hurt anyone(just help pool advance) but through all the B.S. he still maintains a manner in which others should apply them selves to! I'm not shocked that he still has your case today and never selling out, but thats Allen. Take notes you up coming players and be a pro like Allen Hopkins...jmho

 

[jmurphy]

What is so hard about having a simple contract that both parties agree to during the sponsorship?
QUOTE]

That sounds a well and good but the reality is a lot of these guys would not honor said contract and then what, are you going to do sue them? They don't have sh*t and they are smart enough to know that their sponsor will not throw good money after bad by getting a Lawyer involved.

IMO, this is why the Women have done a much better job of promoting themselves in the pool world. I have never even heard a story about one of the Girls acting this way. Just imagine if the Girls played as good as the Elite Men and the Men showed the character and integrity of the Women.
Just food for thought :thumbup:

 

[cuesmith]

There is an issue that has bugged the hell out of me for a long time now. I am sure some will flame me for it but screw it some times you just have to say what is on your mind.
Through my years around pool and it's players a lot of the Men are their own worst enemies.
If someone sponsor's you with a custom cue or custom cue case please show some class and return it to the sponsor if there comes a time you no longer wish to use their equipment. I am sick and tired of seeing players go bust and pawn off their cue or case because it means nothing to them showing total disrespect to those in the business who have been generous to them.
I am positive that you would see a lot more custom cue and case makers stepping forward and be willing to sponsor players with their equipment if the guys would show some class and proudly represent their sponsors in a good light.

Yes I've been on the short end of this stick too many times! I'd rather give a cue to "One Pocket Hall of Fame" or donate it to a good charity than to most of the pool players these days! I've had good relationships with many player reps over the years but I've been burned at least as much as I've been treated fairly! Live and learn!

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Jack Justis has given many Top Pro players one of his CASE. Think a few have deen sold off, but I recall a while back Jack spoke the praises of a young player who wrote him a thank you note after getting the case from Jack.

 

[JoeyA]

I have seen this a number of times but I am not going to call anyone out by name because that would surely serve no purpose but to start a total sh*t storm.

But I will tell you a true story about Dave Bollman. I grew up in Va. Beach Va. playing pool at Q-Masters. Tony (Black Boar) gave Dave Bollman a beautiful cue to play with and after about 5 years went by I inquired with Dave about possibly buying his Black Boar. Dave told me that he would never sell his Black Boar cue and if he ever stopped using it that he would send it back to Tony. I always respected Dave as a Player but when he told me that, he showed me that he was a person with character. Here is a photo of Dave and the Black Boar in question.

Dave Bollman was the first professional player that I ever played pool with for money. Dave may be a good guy but he is also a smart guy. :wink:

JoeyA