My report from Vegas

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As we all know, sometimes they best plans go awry, the week before we head here I have 3 teammates tell me they cannot go, my 2 sl 8 s and a 3, sigh.

So that leaves me , the captain, a 5, 2 guys that are 4s an 2 girls, a
2 and a 3. Man that's a long walk from the circus circus sky tower to the tournament area at the riv.

Thursday night my 2 girls play their normal level and they both win. The 2 guys must have left their heads in Memphis and they both lose bad. We are down 45 to 35 and going into sudden death in the 5 th match. I play a 4 and win 38 to4 for a 20 to 0 win giving us the win 55-45.

Fri morning the same scenario. The 2 girls win and the 2 guys are really making stupid mistakes and lose bad. Go into the 5 th match, again sudden death down 48-32'. I win 38-10 for a score of 17-3 and we lose.

Thursday night at 7 we play again. The 2 girls keep winning. I lose to a 7 by a score of 55-36 but one of my 4s finally pulls out a win.

We play again at 11 pm. Well we run into that team every body always talks about. You know that team. The one where every player plays about 2-3 levels above their handicap.we got embarased 52- 28 in 4 matches.

Never had a 3 put a 19-1 smack down on me before. Never saw a 2 bank 4 balls in a prow before, an I ain't talking about slop either. Matter of fact the floor ref was standing beside me when she banked the 3rd shot and said wow! I said not bad for a 2 huh. He said she's a 2? I said that's what the scoresheet says,

Well my gift and I decided to go ahead and stay till Monday. See the sights, watch a few matches and other stuff.

Might even get in a mini or 2 after I get over the shock of getting manhandled by a 3.
 
I forgot to mention it is our 1st time out here for every one on the team.

Pretty proud of how my girls played. Dumbfounded by how poorly the 2 guys played. Never saw them give away games like that before, I mean they gave away games by poor shooting and crazy decision making at the table.never saw both of them give up bih so much before. I mean crazy stuff.
 
Yeah. That sounds right. A low s/l player playing lights out. I'm an 8 in my area and our league was on the edge of extinction. The skill of players will never be fair or balanced across the board until apa goes to a national system where all players matches are entered in the same group. If that makes any sence. I honestly think I could go to Chicago to play where the team count is at least 5 to 10 times more than us, play 2 levels below what I'm at and I would probably be at the right s/l.
 
Yeah. That sounds right. A low s/l player playing lights out. I'm an 8 in my area and our league was on the edge of extinction. The skill of players will never be fair or balanced across the board until apa goes to a national system where all players matches are entered in the same group. If that makes any sence. I honestly think I could go to Chicago to play where the team count is at least 5 to 10 times more than us, play 2 levels below what I'm at and I would probably be at the right s/l.

There is no perfect handicap system but I do believe the apa strives to make the players s/l as accurate as possible.

In the captains meeting, the opening ceremonies, and before every match they stressed the importance of accurate score keeping. Maybe some lo;s could care less as long as they get their money but at the national level it was apparent they want to stop sandbagging.

Take my experience this week for example. When the floor ref handed out score sheets he showed me a players name on the opposing team that had a w in front of his name. He informed me if they threw him to notify him so he could call an observer to watch the match.

I am another example myself. My 1st match I skunked my opponent. 2nd match I won 17-3. During my 3 rd match I noticed an observer taking notes during my match. Although there was no w in front of my name someone apparently thought I deserved watching. It did not bother me for him to watch, I came to winl. I was down 18-2 after 2 racks and played my best and only lacked 2 points of beating a 7.

Another example was a ref standing beside me while my 3 was playing a 2. We watched my players opponent bank 4 ball in a row. I ain't talking slop shots either. After she made the 3 rd back the ref said wow , I said ain't bad for a 2 is it. He said she is a 2? I said that is what the scoresheet says.

The ref called an official over and I was informed to make notes on my scoresheet regarding her level of play.

So based on my experience it seems they are determined to prevent sandbagging as much as possible
 
Thanks for the report, damned shame at least one of your high level guys couldn't go....

Still, you've gotten the experience. Very cool.
 
Thanks for the report, damned shame at least one of your high level guys couldn't go....

Still, you've gotten the experience. Very cool.

It would not have been possible for me to play along with one of our 8s after our 2 was raised, well yes I could have if our other 3 had come also. I would not have minded sitting out and just went along for the ride if our 8 got us farther along in the tourney.

I was jacked up and prolly was in danger foo being raised myself after my 1st 2 matches were blow outs.

If my 2 4s had played at their normal level I think we could have went a lil farther. I guess some people just can't handle the pressure of being at the big show.

I hope my 1st post did not lead people to believe the nationals is full of sandbaggers. It was not until the 7th round that I encountered any people that I thought played above their level. Heck I think I played above my level somewhat.

When I turned in the scoresheet of my 1st match they inquired about the skunk. I told him that it was me and asked about a skunk patch. She said they did not have any skunk patches and could not remember the last time she saw a skunk at the national level except in the case of a higher level beating a real low level which hardly ever a matchup like that in the nationals.

Damn, my 1st ever skunk in apa and I don't get a patch. Did get 2 National 9on the snap patches though.
 
I know that the apa is trying to prevent as much sandbagging as possible, but its still gonna happen. I was out there for 9ball teams last year and watched a 2 with f-ing amazing fundamentals that a 4 or 5 should have, rip my player apart. It also happened to be the team that won and got disqualified.
 
I thought that it was a very well-known fact that the APA has a rating system and rules designed to benefit the weaker players and the sandbaggers. I'm so sick of people bringing up their issues with this league, like they had no idea that these things would happen.

I played a couple weeks like 12 years ago, and as soon as my captain pulled me aside and quietly told me to settle down on playing so well, and to stop shooting shots that might show I'm a stronger player than my current skill level they assigned me, I knew that I'd never play in that shitty league again.

I wish the APA would just disappear. I honestly believe that it's not good for pool, even though many people start playing this way.
 
I know that the apa is trying to prevent as much sandbagging as possible, but its still gonna happen. I was out there for 9ball teams last year and watched a 2 with f-ing amazing fundamentals that a 4 or 5 should have, rip my player apart. It also happened to be the team that won and got disqualified.

Speaking of the team that got disqualified.

That incident was brought up in the captains meeting.

They basically blamed the teams that faced the disqualified team for allowing that to happen.

They stated that it is the policy at the national level for each team to require their opponents to provide a state issued picture for identification prir to beginning play.

If a player was called to play and failed to provide such identification it resulted in an automatic forfeit.

That rule was gone over every time before the refs handed you your scoresheet for that match.

This is my 1st time here. If indeed that policy was in effect last year I can see their view that it was the fault of every team they faced for allowing that to happen.

The bottom line is there are people in all leagues who lie,cheat,steal cues, try to manipulate rules to their advantage, etc ,etc. thankfully they are in the minority.

I don't know if the captain in our 3rd matchup was trying to pull a fast one on me or not but I was not playing his game.

He goes to the table before the start of the match and lays out a bunch of Ida and says here are my players.. I did not even bother to look at them and told him to present each I'd when he put up his player.he said no,,, this is faster. I said I ain't looking at them till he calls their name to play. He said just look at the scoresheet and look at the I'd . I said no,, present each one when you put them up. Again he said this is faster. I said no , he then asks why. I said just because you show me an I'd now do you think I am supposed to t
Remember that face 2 hours from now when you put that player up.

He then says if you look at the Ida's you can see all those names on the scoresheet. I said I see your point ,,,,now I want you to see my point.

If you call joe blow up an hour from now I know you have a joe blow on your team .how would I know you did not throw jack jones , who is also on your team without looking at the player and his I'd at the same time?

He looked at me funny and said,,, I would not do that. I told him I did not think he would either but i know you ain't gonna do it if you provide the I'd at the same time you call the player. I said, now do I need to call a ref to settle this or are we gonna start the match?

He grumbles under his breath and picks up the Ids and goes sits down after calling his player and handing me that particular players I'd to match up.

The way he wanted to present Ids he could have put up a player that was not even on the team and I would have never caught it.
 
I thought that it was a very well-known fact that the APA has a rating system and rules designed to benefit the weaker players and the sandbaggers. I'm so sick of people bringing up their issues with this league, like they had no idea that these things would happen.

I played a couple weeks like 12 years ago, and as soon as my captain pulled me aside and quietly told me to settle down on playing so well, and to stop shooting shots that might show I'm a stronger player than my current skill level they assigned me, I knew that I'd never play in that shitty league again.

I wish the APA would just disappear. I honestly believe that it's not good for pool, even though many people start playing this way.

If I had your attitude I would rule out every handicapped league, not just the apa.

Every league, yes I mean every league has a few bad apples in them.

Every time the subject of leagues comes up it always turns into an apa bashing.

Let me give you just 2 examples out of a shit load that I have encountered that does not involve apa.

About a year ago a thread was started on here about a league player peeing in the pockets during a tournament at jobs in Nashville. Man you would not believe how quick all the apa bashers jumped on the bandwagon with their snide remarks about apa players.a chit load of them was those serious pool playing bcapl guys. The joke was on them when it come out that the player involved was a bcapl member during a bcapl tournament.

It just never ceases to amaze me anytime some stupid shit comes up everyone automatically assumes its apa related.

2nd item. Sandbagging

I also play in a bcapl format money league.its loaded with sandbaggers.

Obvious example. One team has 3 s/l 8s in which all 3 put break and runs on me,an 8and 2 teammates who are an 8 an a7, under the bcapl points
S system those guys scored 81 to our 0. Now those same guys just mysteriously became bangers who could barely manage to get 5 or 6 points in 15 innings against our other 2 players who are 4s. The result was each player kept their point total between 38-40 allowing them to maintain an 8s/l. While holding our 3 best players to 0 points and letting an honest to god apa 2 and her 15 year old son get a measly 27 points to their 40.

Why would they do that and how do they get away with it? It's simple. There are no safeguards under the bcapl score keeping system to prevent that from happening. All they do is count point total for each player.

At least the apa tries to prevent such shit by requiring you keep accurate score keeping.

Number of innings and number of defensive shots goes a long way toward determining a players true ability . The apa is not at fault if during a league night people are too lazy to mark defensive shots or are too busy bullshitting to notice what's going on during a match.
 
In my opinion, more than almost any other sport/game, pool attracts people who are either outright dishonest, will abuse loopholes in the rules (explainable dishonesty), and/or value money won over having integrity. They had these flaws before playing pool. I'm not saying everyone who plays pool is bad, not even a majority, but seems like a higher percent than other activities.

Anyone looking at league as anything other than a time to get together with poeple and having a good time competing in an organized setting is just fvcking stupid. This means you compete fairly every time. If you have a great night or a bad night, the effect it has on your handicap should be irrelevant.

<--- former BCA league member and one time Captain


PS- to the OP, next time, just title the thread something like "APA sandbaggers are sandy vaginas" or something. No need to hide behind your "trip report", its cool bro, we feel ya.
 
Meh. Lots of people complain about lopsided losses, but never about their lopsided wins. There may be a little out there, but it's not as prevalent as some would like to believe. I had a 3 or 4 recently bank 4 of their last 5 balls to finish a race for a few bucks. I couldn't believe my eyes. I told my friend he's not getting my $5 that easy, play it back. Just because they can do it, doesn't mean they didn't get lucky. ;) Man, those low players can kill it if things go their way.
 
I believe you are right, the APA is awful for pool. It's good for the average Joe to say, ya I'm a pool player, and I'm going to Vegas to play pool. That impresses someone.

The amount of nittiness that goes on as well as the tattletails who run up to the promoters and say watch this person, telling the referee that a 2 banked 4 shots, who cares, you're in a league where you know that at the local level sandbagging is done, and on the Vegas level you're seeing the best actors that SAG can give cards to.


I thought that it was a very well-known fact that the APA has a rating system and rules designed to benefit the weaker players and the sandbaggers. I'm so sick of people bringing up their issues with this league, like they had no idea that these things would happen.

I played a couple weeks like 12 years ago, and as soon as my captain pulled me aside and quietly told me to settle down on playing so well, and to stop shooting shots that might show I'm a stronger player than my current skill level they assigned me, I knew that I'd never play in that shitty league again.

I wish the APA would just disappear. I honestly believe that it's not good for pool, even though many people start playing this way.
 
Good point, forgot it was called trip report.

Try my whiny Vegas APA story/otherwise known as how to Narc on someone who banks 4 balls/ or AKA Someone out stole me at the Nationals.


In my opinion, more than almost any other sport/game, pool attracts people who are either outright dishonest, will abuse loopholes in the rules (explainable dishonesty), and/or value money won over having integrity. They had these flaws before playing pool. I'm not saying everyone who plays pool is bad, not even a majority, but seems like a higher percent than other activities.

Anyone looking at league as anything other than a time to get together with poeple and having a good time competing in an organized setting is just fvcking stupid. This means you compete fairly every time. If you have a great night or a bad night, the effect it has on your handicap should be irrelevant.

<--- former BCA league member and one time Captain


PS- to the OP, next time, just title the thread something like "APA sandbaggers are sandy vaginas" or something. No need to hide behind your "trip report", its cool bro, we feel ya.
 
I thought that it was a very well-known fact that the APA has a rating system and rules designed to benefit the weaker players and the sandbaggers. I'm so sick of people bringing up their issues with this league, like they had no idea that these things would happen.

I played a couple weeks like 12 years ago, and as soon as my captain pulled me aside and quietly told me to settle down on playing so well, and to stop shooting shots that might show I'm a stronger player than my current skill level they assigned me, I knew that I'd never play in that shitty league again.

I wish the APA would just disappear. I honestly believe that it's not good for pool, even though many people start playing this way.

The problem here was the captain, not the league. I wouldn't play for a team that asked me to lay down and I sure wouldn't, as a team captain, tell any player to play less than full speed. I want to be on a team that wants to win, and where everyone is on the same page. That chemistry is hard to find, but cheating to keep such chemistry ruins it.

When I captain a team I tell my players to play pool and let me worry about the numbers.

I took an 8 ball team out there in 09. My 7 didn't win a match. The bright lights and non stop action kept him without sleep and on a bender. The players that were normally carried back home stepped upo and kept us in it. We didn't get too far 129th or there about.

I wish I could get another team with the skill and chemistry to go back, but it's harder than it might seem.


:cool:
 
Never had a 3 put a 19-1 smack down on me before. Never saw a 2 bank 4 balls in a prow before, an I ain't talking about slop either. Matter of fact the floor ref was standing beside me when she banked the 3rd shot and said wow! I said not bad for a 2 huh. He said she's a 2? I said that's what the scoresheet says,

Well my gift and I decided to go ahead and stay till Monday. See the sights, watch a few matches and other stuff.

Might even get in a mini or 2 after I get over the shock of getting manhandled by a 3.

Somehow, after attending LTC's/Cities (whatever you wanna call them) 3 times now, this just doesn't surprise me at all !! :(:(
 
Good point, forgot it was called trip report.

Try my whiny Vegas APA story/otherwise known as how to Narc on someone who banks 4 balls/ or AKA Someone out stole me at the Nationals.

My exact words to the ref after he said wow after the 3rd bank was " not bad for a 2 ".

He then took it upon himself to go get an official and told him what he saw, the official then told me what he wanted me to report.

It is funny how some on here seem to have a problem with reading comprehension, and some people just like to twist words around to suit their view point.

I don't know which category you fit in with your remarks but like I said , I think it's funny.

Nah,,, it's downright comical
 
My exact words to the ref after he said wow after the 3rd bank was " not bad for a 2 ".

He then took it upon himself to go get an official and told him what he saw, the official then told me what he wanted me to report.

It is funny how some on here seem to have a problem with reading comprehension, and some people just like to twist words around to suit their view point.

I don't know which category you fit in with your remarks but like I said , I think it's funny.

Nah,,, it's downright comical

No, its simply another case of taking the opportunity to bash the APA and anyone that participates in it.

Which was to be expected when the thread started, you and I both realize.

I'm glad to hear about your trip experience, thanks for sharing it. Hopefully someday I will be able to make a report as well.
 
No, its simply another case of taking the opportunity to bash the APA and anyone that participates in it.

Which was to be expected when the thread started, you and I both realize.

I'm glad to hear about your trip experience, thanks for sharing it. Hopefully someday I will be able to make a report as well.

You are right dub. It seems to be the modes operandi of some people on here . Maybe some genuinlly believe I was complaining and if so I apologize.

I was simply trying to report how I and my teammates fared and what I saw in a matter of fact way.

I stated that I played above my level ,especially my 1st 2 matches and had an observer watching my 3rd match where I did not slack up at all . I think I played lights out in that match knowing I might be raised or dq trying to beat a 7. Not bragging but it takes a high level of play to overcome a deficit of 18-2 .

He broke an ran the 1st rack,got down to the 9 in the 2nd rack where he got hung up. I come back and almost beat him losing by just needing 2 points.

I'm sure my opponents thought I was a sandbagger.

I just simply stated how well that 2 played. The ref upon learning she was a 2 took it upon himself to get an official and report what he saw.

I simply stated I got run over by a good shooting 3. To be honest, he was a damn godd shooter who did not miss any shot a 3 should make . When he did miss it just seemed like he got a lucky roll and left me hooked. We all been in that situation a time or 2.

Maybe next post I should make a disclaimer that I ain't *****ing ,just stating facts.:grin:
 
Well lets get off the subject of sandbagging and more about my trip.

Cues on a plane,,,, while I was waiting to board the plane in Memphis a guy comes up carrying his case. I said how the hell they let you through with that? He says he has never had a problem taking his case on a plane. I also ran into other people here in Vegas that had carried cues on the plane with them.

I had bought a 4x8 case specifically for this trip to carry both mine and my gf's cues. Big mistake.. That sucker got heavy walking from the back of the riv to the back of circus circus. I guess cues on a plane depends on where you board at. Another case of a government program where one hand does not know what the other one is doing.

Speaking of cues.

I decided not to bring my high dollar custom I play with every day at league. For all the various obvious reasons.

Instead I brought a cheap import sneaky Pete that weighs 22oz. My reg player is 19 oz. I played some of my best pool ever with that cheap stick. Guess there is some truth it's the Indian not the arrow
 
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