My short-lived APA experience. (long post)
- Thread starter inside_english
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Anyone including Scott Lee who thinks their APA league has no sandbagging is very naive.
You can try all you want, but you will never get them all.
LOL, to i made them sign a paper saying they would try their best.....are you a 3rd grade teacher ????
Oh and congrats on running an APA league where your teams went to vegas and got killed by the teams who know how to play the system.
And no i do not play APA anymore. Was too hard to keep up with the great teams that go to vegas.
You can try all you want, but you will never get them all.
LOL, to i made them sign a paper saying they would try their best.....are you a 3rd grade teacher ????
Oh and congrats on running an APA league where your teams went to vegas and got killed by the teams who know how to play the system.
And no i do not play APA anymore. Was too hard to keep up with the great teams that go to vegas.
Well, they do pay the $7 for their match, but they show up hours early and practice for free. These people never come to the pool room on any other night, then wonder why they can't make two balls in a row.
I played in the APA for 1 season after 3 years of bca. I believe the APA has a place in the pool world. And the experence was great for my parents who are both 4's and have played the ever since.
IMO. The conduct of many seasoned APA members was discusting (sharking, playing well know double kiss shots). Things that would never fly in a well run tourneyment or league. There was a real shortage of decent players in our area and fewer that play APA. During my 1 session in the APA i went from a 4 lol first week to a 5 and then 6 for the rest of the year only loosing 1 match to a 5 (cough sandbagged) that ran out 3 of his 5 racks. During the course of this season he was the highest rated player i played.
I was the captain of the team and would play my 4's against 4's and 3's against 3's and so on. Since it imo would let them show there game against someone of equal skill. That being said every team would play either a 2 or 3 against me with the random 4 who was on the bubble of moving up if u know what i mean. Its very hard for me to try to play my pool game in league anyways but then to be playing 4's and below was annoying at best. The scorers dont for the most part know how to score when good player play as most of our shot are 2 way shots. when its questionable if we're gonna get out. I can count multiple time of trying 3 rail shots because i know im getting that last ball before a 3 runs the rest of there rack even if they were hanging in the pockets. All that being said it wasn't until the tourneyment we held after the league ended. And the league operator herself was there for the first time that i became a 7 after losing 1 rack in 7 matches to win the tourney.
And there was sandbagging by 3 out of our 12 teams, in our town. The 1's hoping to go to nationals. And everyone that knows pool at all knew these teams were doing it. And still are to this day...
In retrospec it was a good thing for my parents as it gives them something to do out of the house together. But if your truely a good player or want to be i would avoid this league like the plague. The amount of good players in my area is 1 out of a possible 20 7's (and only 3 that would have a snowballs chance in hell against pro speed players) that play APA. So if the good players aren't around to help u. You wont improve as much as u would think or hope too. The only pros in my state that play APA only play enough games to get into the singles tourneys and handycaps didn't help him from snapping like 4 tourneys in a row. And i believe he has since been banned from those tourneys... But again this is just my experience and my opinions...
IMO. The conduct of many seasoned APA members was discusting (sharking, playing well know double kiss shots). Things that would never fly in a well run tourneyment or league. There was a real shortage of decent players in our area and fewer that play APA. During my 1 session in the APA i went from a 4 lol first week to a 5 and then 6 for the rest of the year only loosing 1 match to a 5 (cough sandbagged) that ran out 3 of his 5 racks. During the course of this season he was the highest rated player i played.
I was the captain of the team and would play my 4's against 4's and 3's against 3's and so on. Since it imo would let them show there game against someone of equal skill. That being said every team would play either a 2 or 3 against me with the random 4 who was on the bubble of moving up if u know what i mean. Its very hard for me to try to play my pool game in league anyways but then to be playing 4's and below was annoying at best. The scorers dont for the most part know how to score when good player play as most of our shot are 2 way shots. when its questionable if we're gonna get out. I can count multiple time of trying 3 rail shots because i know im getting that last ball before a 3 runs the rest of there rack even if they were hanging in the pockets. All that being said it wasn't until the tourneyment we held after the league ended. And the league operator herself was there for the first time that i became a 7 after losing 1 rack in 7 matches to win the tourney.
And there was sandbagging by 3 out of our 12 teams, in our town. The 1's hoping to go to nationals. And everyone that knows pool at all knew these teams were doing it. And still are to this day...
In retrospec it was a good thing for my parents as it gives them something to do out of the house together. But if your truely a good player or want to be i would avoid this league like the plague. The amount of good players in my area is 1 out of a possible 20 7's (and only 3 that would have a snowballs chance in hell against pro speed players) that play APA. So if the good players aren't around to help u. You wont improve as much as u would think or hope too. The only pros in my state that play APA only play enough games to get into the singles tourneys and handycaps didn't help him from snapping like 4 tourneys in a row. And i believe he has since been banned from those tourneys... But again this is just my experience and my opinions...
Nope, this decision was brewing even before the 2nd session was over, and a couple of my teammates seemed quite disappointed that I would be quitting, and since I like ALL of my teammates I chose to stay for another session.
"You gotta go into league with a sense of humor and a casual attitude (yet somehow play your hardest)."
I don't know how one does that. It does not seem worth it when you're playig a weaker player one shark-filled match after sitting for 2.5 - 3 hours. I don't enjoy the companionship enough to tolerate the rest of it.
When I am around pool, my first priority is to play my best, everything else is secondary.
In APA, everything else is the first priority and pool is secondary.
I get your point, thanks for posting.
That was the point of my OP, this league, though wildly popular, is simply not for me.
That's all.
Your points are well made, but they have nothing to do with my original post. I never said APA should be abolished. I simply stated why I was displeased and hence I am quitting instead of staying in there for years and complaining the whole time.
Great post, I agree completely.
If you don't like it, that is fine, don't play. There are many, many very good players in the APA that I enjoy playing.
Another aspect that I like that is not mentioned often is that I enjoy coaching, helping and teaching the lower skill players. When they make a shot that they would have never seen without coaching the look in their eyes if priceless.
Richardson...I didn't say no APA league has sandbagging. I said MINE didn't. Along with signing the team rule sheet, at the beginning of each session, every member of every team HAD to learn how to keep score. That was my rule, and either they lived with it, or didn't play in my league. It ran quite well for the years I ran it this way. As far as my teams winning in Las Vegas...nope, they didn't. But they didn't care...they got a free trip, and could say that they "finished in the money", because even last place pays a few hundred dollars. Your negativity underscores the need to better understand the league, who it represents, and who should or should probably not play in it. Best of luck to you, wherever you choose to play.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
This has been well debated by both sides.
It simply isn't somewhere you want to be if you're trying to get to the next level. There's just too much bs that you can't control, and it WILL get on your nerves eventually.
That said, I practice taking an attitude of "who gives a f*ck" when I play in it. The system, since it's f*cked up, isn't worth getting mad over. There's just too much sh*t in it for me to try my hardest only too see far less then the desired outcome.
On the other hand, it does introduce people to pool. That said, it's on to the BCA ASAP.
It simply isn't somewhere you want to be if you're trying to get to the next level. There's just too much bs that you can't control, and it WILL get on your nerves eventually.
That said, I practice taking an attitude of "who gives a f*ck" when I play in it. The system, since it's f*cked up, isn't worth getting mad over. There's just too much sh*t in it for me to try my hardest only too see far less then the desired outcome.
On the other hand, it does introduce people to pool. That said, it's on to the BCA ASAP.
I played APA from '99 to '05 i won 5 team trips to vegas and a singles trip. I along with several differant members of my teams always bagged. Our best finish was a 5th in about '01. The only way to compete in APA is to bag.
But im glad you did your best to run a straight up league, meanwhile i won money off of teams like you sent to vegas who couldnt beat our ladies team.
Yes, i play BCA/VNEA now. Much better players and much less headaches from league opperators who think they know everything.
mongoose-
Banned
If you are playing that many teams on APA leagues I will bet your LO just loves you. ChaChing... probably paying his car payment every month lol. And what are you getting back from those dues you are putting in ??
Scott, I am going to have to disagree with you here. I don't know how many teams you have or had in your league, or what your rule sheet looked like, but people bag in APA plain and simple. You can't tell me every person in the whole league played straight up because if they did, teams would not be able to play together for long at all because how the system is set up promotes people moving up with little effort due to the handicap system. Yes I know that is the "APA Idea" of having teams split up and add people to continue to grow, but people who like to play together on a team for more then a session or even a year are going to dump, to keep it that way whether you see this or not. The only time this might not happen is if you have a team of only 4s and 5s or a team of 8 people that is spread out enough and even then you can't play your best team without bagging. It is what it is. Teaching them how to keep score has nothing to do with bagging, even though it is a helpful tool to see how the league is run or score is kept. As for your teams not caring that they didn't win in Vegas, I would have to agree with Richardson, good for them, and I hope my team plays a team like that every round. Not a bad thing...some people don't care to win or compete to try to finish high in the money, but if they do want to, the only way to do this is to bag...UNLESS you get blessed with a team that gets a ton of rolls, plays their best which is the handicap they are at, and gets incredibably lucky. APA is good for only a couple of things, meeting people/having fun playing pool in a minimal competitive league, and winning the free trip to Vegas to try to win some cash IMO.
I agree and I didnt think your original post was a bad post. I have played in three different APA areas and have not had the issues you have faced. I do see many people thinking that they are sandbagging but most of them just THINK that they are.
I know what you mean about some players not wanting to get better but in even in non APA or any other league players its the same way. In my APA experiences I have seen players get better and I have seen players taking the "dont care" attitude but the majority WANT to be better. However the majority dont want to put themselves out there and do whats needed to become better. Playing league one or two nights becomes ok with them.
When I play I usually dont play the better players. Teams often mismatch but I just examine how I play and what mistakes I make.
Its only 5 games in my pool life so its not a big deal. I look less at wins and losses then how I played.
Good luck with your game. You (and I) are part of a small group of pool players that are willing to put in time and effort into getting better. We are by no means in the large group and often I think we need to remember that. I think we will always have to fight through players having no pool manners and sharking as well as players that simply are out banging balls for fun.
I had a question on a related subject. In the APA league structure, how many teams out of a league are able to go play in Vegas for the National TEAM Championship? I know the league operators are probably allowed a certain number of slots per teams in thier franchise. Does anyone have that ratio?
mongoose-
Banned
I would guess it would depend on the size of the league. I know in this state it depends on the available slots in Vegas from what the LO had told me. Which I am sure it does. There are a lot of teams there & a time frame to run the entire event.
I dont know the ratio, but here in dsm when we had like 120 teams we took 3 to vegas.
but our 9 ball league only had 14 to take 1 there.
but our 9 ball league only had 14 to take 1 there.