My theory on Deflection

I will say though... I said it was just my theory... it is just a theory, and just my opinion

just trying to share my experience... hopefully it MIGHT help someone to avoid errors I made.

As I mentioned to Creedo in a PM... I was a die hard predator guy for a LONG time... but I realized that it put me in a very small box as a player... it meant I absolutely HAD to have my cue with me to play my A game. So I sold them all, and bought standard shafts, and now I KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I can walk into any room and find a cue with a decent tip and within 15 or 20 minutes of picking it up, be at 90%... never could I have done when I was a predator guy.

For someone who only ever plays in leauge, or in tournaments... there is no issue with this, but I often found myself in social situations where a friend would say "hey Jay, you play pretty good pool, show us some stuff", and I would be without my gear... and couldn't adjust worth a crap.
 
...and this proves nothing?

nineballsafety8 said:
To prove this point, I had a cuemaker put on a 1" brass ferrule on one of my spare shafts... and let me tell you what a 13.2mm BRASS ferrule is freaking HEAVY!!!!
And I played with it, ALOT, for about a week... and guess what, I could run racks with it... with HUGE amounts of deflection... HUGE amounts, like a full ball and a half difference across the length of a table.
Click to expand...

So are you still playing with the brass ferrule? Why not?
 
Jay,
from what I have seen, it seems you need a few cues. There are definitely shots where having a cue with a high front endmass is a real advantage.Like some masse shots(probably most) then there are times when it is better to have a very low endmass cue.
Getting used to both is probably the key along with loads of practice.
I have seen a very old one piece Brunswick cue, made before 1920, the guy still plays with it on quite a regular basis. It has a very low ring count shaft, quite straight grain from memory. But was very light in the front end. It played really well. The taper on the shaft is no longer the original, as it has worn over the years with it's life of different players.I was privileged to play a game with it. Not as low as a predator shaft, but not that far from it. Way lower than the regular bar cues though.
It is in the most part, it is just what people get used to, but a cue that is consistent is probably the best cue to have.
I think now days is the best time to be buying cues. There has been a lot of real research into cue shafts with high speed camera's etc to get a better performing product.
In our case, the cue shafts are adjustable for the front end mass so the customer can tune the shaft characteristics to the way they like on the day .
"If it can't be made right to suite everybody, make it adjustable." quote Neil Lickfold
 
jburkm002 said:
My theory on deflection. Deflection is an issue because the majority of us don't play pool properly. Myself included. We rather look fancy with lots of side spin then play the game the proper way. Or shall I say the most efficient and consistent way. Like the pro's. They understand tangent angles and setting up proper angles. They are very efficient with cue ball control. Most of use are trying to leave it in an area while top players are trying to leave the cue on a spot. Just saying most of us over play the cue ball. Don't think the pro's could play on the tightest pockets shooting well over .900 and play like most of us do. Sure they have to use english like everyone else. However and I may be wrong but I think they use more center, high and low. Working tangent lines and ball speed. Just my thought.
Click to expand...

Yup, you're wrong. It's the common fantasy on AZ that pros use more center, high, and low instead of using english and all over the ball. It's exactly opposite. The pros use as much or more side spin than amateurs. They pocket balls better with any english and they use the correct english. THat's why they're pros.

Anybody who has spent five or more minutes watching pros will attest to this. Either that or they're not looking.

Freddie
 
nineballsafety8 said:
DING DING DING

4 pages later and someone hits the nail on the head.

thank you sir!
Click to expand...

well, to be fair, everyone KNOWS that :) But I'm guessing Chief Shooting Aces would prefer an arrow without deflection, He get him more buffalo that way :)
 
Cornerman said:
Yup, you're wrong. It's the common fantasy on AZ that pros use less center, high, and low. It's exactly opposite. The pros use as much or more spin than amateurs. They pocket balls better with any english and they use the correct english. THat's why they're pros.

Anybody who has spent five or more minutes watching pros will attest to this. Either that or they're not looking.

Freddie
Click to expand...

Freddie,
I wanted to say something similar, but did not want to spend the time trying to explain it... you did it quite well TAP TAP TAP.

I also want to point out in the last TAR podcast that Shane mentioned that he hits almost EVERY cutshot with outside english to account for throw and skid.... just sayin

if it's good enough for Shane, it's good enough for me :D
 
nineballsafety8 said:
DING DING DING

4 pages later and someone hits the nail on the head.

thank you sir!
Click to expand...
Another crazy saying that just needs stop. Even the best Indian (Native American) would use the best arrows (for them) that they could get their hands on (or make, as it were). They're not going to shoot with sloppy noodles just because "they're Indians."

Freddie <~~~ thinks the saying is stupid
 
Out of all the cues I own, the shafts, from customs, 2 Pred shafts, 3 HXT, 1 Black Dot, Schon shafts, I don't believe that I have experienced any real amount of deflection/squirt,
that was that bad that it affected my game.

I have one cue, a McDermott Deacon. Now thats a bugger. Feels like I have a 2 x 4 in my right hand. The only reason that I kept it is because it is a well built pretty cue.

Some new cues take zero time to get used to. Others I believe require a period of time to get used to playing with it.

Maybe I am just lucky with the choice of cues that I have purchased, with the exception
of the McDermott. I could basically use them and fall into playing fairly comfortably.

One of these days I will give the Deacon another try out. Who knows, it may feel A Ok this time around.

I have one cue, well under $100 on EBay. Was a fixer upper for me to practice on. On it, a shaft that was given to me. European taper, darker wood, lots of sugar marks, probably uglier than sin to most players. Shoots wonderful. 57" and my favorite bar box cue.

I have a $25 Eliminator sneaky that I take to the bar with me on occasion. While I don't exactly care for the 13mm telephone pole shaft, it shoots ok for a night out. That particular one takes a bit of getting used to, but most likely just because of the diameter.

The other day, I shot a half decent game with a bar cue, which really surprised the heck outta me.

The cue maker from Evansville Ind, that used to be here. I got one of his early sneakies with 2 ferrulless 30" shafts. They played real good.
One of the cues, or at least the shafts that I wish that I had kept. Anyway, as I hear it, someone else was very happy with the cue.

So, Deflection, Never heard of it. J/K, I have obviously but don't feel that it has eve been a major problem for me.

maybe thats because I also have been known to miss my fair share of shots. But, I have never blamed it on squirt.

Freddy, of all the Native Canadians that I know, none of them use the bow and arrow any more. Most preferring to use a rifle to hunt these days.
 
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Blue Hog ridr said:
Out of all the cues I own, the shafts, from customs, 2 Pred shafts, 3 HXT, 1 Black Dot, Schon shafts, I don't believe that I have experienced any real amount of deflection/squirt,
that was that bad that it affected my game.

I have one cue, a McDermott Deacon. Now thats a bugger. Feels like I have a 2 x 4 in my right hand. The only reason that I kept it is because it is a well built pretty cue.

Some new cues take zero time to get used to. Others I believe require a period of time to get used to playing with it.

Maybe I am just lucky with the choice of cues that I have purchased, with the exception
of the McDermott. I could basically use them and fall into playing fairly comfortably.

One of these days I will give the Deacon another try out. Who knows, it may feel A Ok this time around.

I have one cue, well under $100 on EBay. Was a fixer upper for me to practice on. On it, a shaft that was given to me. European taper, darker wood, lots of sugar marks, probably uglier than sin to most players. Shoots wonderful. 57" and my favorite bar box cue.

I have a $25 Eliminator sneaky that I take to the bar with me on occasion. While I don't exactly care for the 13mm telephone pole shaft, it shoots ok for a night out. That particular one takes a bit of getting used to, but most likely just because of the diameter.

The other day, I shot a half decent game with a bar cue, which really surprised the heck outta me.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity... what is the go to setup? If you had to play with only one setup for 6 months, which would you choose and why?
 
nineballsafety8 said:
My point is that LD is NOT a magic pill that instantly makes your game better.
Click to expand...
If you miss shots because you are shooting with english without compensating enough for squirt (a common problem) or not hitting the cue ball exactly where you intend to (even more common), shooting exactly the same way with a LD shaft will result in you making at least some of those shots. It's not magic, and it won't turn you from a D player into an A player, but it does make the game slightly easier.

It's both theoretically and experimentally proven that LD shafts reduce squirt, which reduces the possible range of squirt when applying english. Reducing the range not only puts you closer to the center ball line so less compensation is required, it also is more forgiving on cue tip placement; your tip offset can be more off target and you'll still make the ball because the deflection hasn't changed as much. It's a little like enlarging the sweet spot on a tennis racket or a golf club, you get the desired result across a broader margin of error.

If you want to have every possible equipment advantage and are willing to play with it, a LD shaft is the way to go. If you are so used to compensating for the squirt of a regular shaft that the forgiveness of a LD shaft is not worth relearning the necessary adjustments, then don't change. In particular, if you play using backhand english all the time and don't want to give that up, a LD shaft is going to cause you problems.

In either case, if you aim perfectly, compensate correctly for squirt, swerve and throw, and hit the CB exactly where you intend to, it won't matter; the OB will split the jaws of the pocket. Once you get above a certain level and do all of those things well enough (considering that there is almost always some acceptable margin of error), the game is more about position play than making balls, and a LD shaft doesn't really help you there.
 
nineballsafety8 said:
Shane,
You are absolutely right... and if it came across that I am knocking the concept of LD shafts... I am not. I fully believe that someone can and likely will improve after switching to an LD shaft IF they stick with it... That is the main point that I am making. I don't believe that a shaft itself makes anyone better, regardless of the shaft, whether it be LD or standard. That was not the argument that I was trying to argue. If my point got out of wack due to my passion, I apologize for that. I fully believe that ANY equipment switch is capable of making anyone a better player.

HOWEVER, I feel they have to view it as an upgrade toward something that is more comfortable, and something that makes them more confident in their ability. I feel that the best way to accomplish that zen feeling with your equipment is to get intimate and spend as much time with your setup as possible.

In now way do I discredit the benefits of ANY LD shaft out there. Most of the LD shafts (predator, OB, Mezz, Lucasi, Tiger, Jacoby) ALL of them DO have significantly less deflection than a standard shaft, and that does enable a less steep learning curve when improving your game.

My point is that LD is NOT a magic pill that instantly makes your game better. Regardless of the BEST LD shaft out there (whatever it may be), it still has deflection, and you still have to learn the shaft.

My point is if some people who do or have equipment hopped (myself included) dedicated as much time to practice as they did trying to find the magic shaft or butt or tip, or chalk, or whatever... they likely would see gains as good or better than had they stuck with what they already had (assuming they had something decent)
Click to expand...

Way too many have thought the same thing (that I highlighted in red) about aiming systems, lessons, tips, ect. I don't know why so many assume that, but it seems many do. No one has ever made that claim except those that dispute it.???

Do all those things shorten the learning curve? In most cases, yes. But, you have to understand that statement- they SHORTEN, not ELIMINATE the learning curve. Much practice IS still needed. Just not as much practice as without those things as a general rule. So, one is usually better off doing things that shorten the learning curve, especially the amateurs that don't have 8 hours a day to practice.
 
nineballsafety8 said:
I will say though... I said it was just my theory... it is just a theory, and just my opinion

just trying to share my experience... hopefully it MIGHT help someone to avoid errors I made.

As I mentioned to Creedo in a PM... I was a die hard predator guy for a LONG time... but I realized that it put me in a very small box as a player... it meant I absolutely HAD to have my cue with me to play my A game. So I sold them all, and bought standard shafts, and now I KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I can walk into any room and find a cue with a decent tip and within 15 or 20 minutes of picking it up, be at 90%... never could I have done when I was a predator guy.

For someone who only ever plays in leauge, or in tournaments... there is no issue with this, but I often found myself in social situations where a friend would say "hey Jay, you play pretty good pool, show us some stuff", and I would be without my gear... and couldn't adjust worth a crap.
Click to expand...
I admit that going from a LD shaft to a house cue off the rack does require some adjustment, but I have never found myself in a social situation where it makes any difference if I'm not playing at full speed. If it was important to me to shoot my best with a house cue, I would play with a house cue all the time. Instead, I practice and play 99 percent of the time with my cue, so I can take advantage of the consistency and lower squirt of the LD shaft. If it causes me to make 1 more ball out of 200 that I would have rattled otherwise, it's worth it to me.

I suppose it's just a matter of priorities.
 
nineballsafety8 said:
hmmmm... questionable

bruce lee with a butter knife vs Chris Farley from beverly hills ninja with a perfect katana... my money is on Bruce LOL
Click to expand...
yeah, but give them both katanas and nobody will even take odds on Farley landing a lucky blow. :smile:
 
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