My theory on Deflection

[Alexplayspool]

Hi Dr. Dave
is back hand English or front hand English better than using parallel English, when adjusting for deflection? Or can one adjust for deflection using any of these methods, as long as they stay aware?

 

[JoeyA]

LoL! Well; if he's a very good player and has a stupid conscious mind, that only means one thing: he must have a fairly smart subconcious mind. Otherwise, there's no way he could be a very good player. It's probably a case where he believes it's all swerve and throw. For example; on a cut shot to the left his conscious mind is telling him when he uses outside english he's aiming to the left of the tangent line, he's swerving the ball to the right, the 2 balls make contact slightly to the left of the tangent line, then spin induced throw cause the balls to separate only when the tangent line is pointing towards the pocket
His subconscious mind knows he's aiming to the right of the tangent line, he's deflecting to the left, he's hitting too hard for swerve to occur, and throw has little to no effect on the shot......I know all this 'cause I'm a self- taught basement player who for a long time read very little about pool and couldn't quite grasp the concept of deflection on those few occasions when I did read about it.

He is of course, subconsciously adjusting for the squirt and swerve but still doesn't consciously accept the fact that cue shafts deflect and cue ball squirt and swerve when side spin is applied.

It's all good though. You don't have to understand the physics of what happens in pool to play well; it just makes the game more interesting to know what is actually happening rather than what you "think" is happening.

In fact, when playing at a high level, most everyone subconsciously adjusts for squerve.

JoeyA

 

[dr_dave]

Hi Dr. Dave
is back hand English or front hand English better than using parallel English, when adjusting for deflection? Or can one adjust for deflection using any of these methods, as long as they stay aware?

Parallel english works only in very limited situations (for example, with nearly straight and slow shots where throw cancels squirt, or in cases where the cue elevation is just right to cancel squirt, or where the OB is close to the pocket and the margin for error is large). BHE is most appropriate for fast shots or where the CB-OB distance is short, where swerve is not a big effect. FHE is most appropriate for slow follow shots. Everything in between requires a combination of BHE and FHE (or intuitive aim adjustments based on years of successful experience). For more information and demonstrations, see the BHE/FHE resource page.

Enjoy,
Dave

 

[Matt]

Hi Dr. Dave
is back hand English or front hand English better than using parallel English, when adjusting for deflection? Or can one adjust for deflection using any of these methods, as long as they stay aware?

Obviously, I'm not Dr. Dave, but I'll give you my 2 cents anyways:

All three "methods" of applying english are just different processes used to arrive at the same result, meaning the correct cue direction and tip offset on the cue ball to produce the desired amount of spin and send the cue ball down the desired shot line.

"Parallel" english just means that you place your bridge on the table and angle your cue for the shot without any pivoting. This means you have to do all of the squirt/swerve calculations in your head, whether it's done consciously or not, and aim accordingly.

With BHE or FHE, you start with your bridge and cue angle in position for a center ball hit, i.e. along the intended shot line and then pivot the cue. If that pivot is done at the pivot point of the cue, the squirt will cause the cue to start out on the same line as the initial setup.

In either case, there is only one combination of cue direction and cue ball contact point that will produce a particular shot.

 

[dr_dave]

"Parallel" english just means that you place your bridge on the table and angle your cue for the shot without any pivoting.

Actually, I think by "parallel english," most people mean you aim for a center ball hit and move your cue "parallel" to this aiming line to impart the amount of spin desired. With pure "parallel english," no adjustments are made for squirt, swerve, or throw (although, some people might be adjusting subconsciously).

This means you have to do all of the squirt/swerve calculations in your head, whether it's done consciously or not, and aim accordingly.

This is not parallel english, BHE, or FHE. This is aiming strictly based on intuition built up by many years of successful practice and experience.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Matt]

Actually, I think by "parallel english," most people mean you aim for a center ball hit and move your cue "parallel" to this aiming line to impart the amount of spin desired. With pure "parallel english," no adjustments are made for squirt, swerve, or throw (although, some people might be adjusting subconsciously).

Perhaps, but I don't think I have ever seen anyone do that (deliberately re-position their entire cue in parallel). Everyone I know that thinks that they aim down the shot line with english makes those adjustments before they place their bridge on the table. If that's not what we're calling parallel english, then maybe we need another category. When I play, I don't pivot; I settle into position with my cue in position along my intended stroke line. If I am shooting with english, that line is different than the line for a center ball hit. For most shots, I go based on muscle memory, but there are several shots for which I am consciously aware of the difference between the lines and visualize the cue ball path with squirt and/or swerve included. I suggest we call this category "over-analysis english". :smile:

 

[Neil]

Actually, I think by "parallel english," most people mean you aim for a center ball hit and move your cue "parallel" to this aiming line to impart the amount of spin desired. With pure "parallel english," no adjustments are made for squirt, swerve, or throw (although, some people might be adjusting subconsciously).

...................

Regards,
Dave

Dave, there is a way to do parallel english and make adjustments without making adjustments. If that makes any sense.... you simply have to move parallel, then check which part of your ferrule or tip is lined up on your aim line. It's not fool-proof, but once you get the speed part down, it works very well. With a standard shaft, which squirts the cb more, it may not work at all, not sure.

 

[dr_dave]

Perhaps, but I don't think I have ever seen anyone do that (deliberately re-position their entire cue in parallel). Everyone I know that thinks that they aim down the shot line with english makes those adjustments before they place their bridge on the table. If that's not what we're calling parallel english, then maybe we need another category. When I play, I don't pivot; I settle into position with my cue in position along my intended stroke line. If I am shooting with english, that line is different than the line for a center ball hit. For most shots, I go based on muscle memory, but there are several shots for which I am consciously aware of the difference between the lines and visualize the cue ball path with squirt and/or swerve included. I suggest we call this category "over-analysis english". :smile:

"Parallel english" implies the cue is "parallel" to the desired CB direction (AKA, the "aiming line" for a center-ball hit). It can shifted before the bridge is placed or after, but the shift is "parallel."

Your "category" of aim is "intuitive" (i.e., you don't really use a "system"). You align the cue along the necessary line to account for everything intuitively. Sounds good to me. This is what most good players do.

"Systems" like BHE, FHE, and BHE/FHE combo are useful for the people who can't do this very well. It takes many years of successful practice and experience to be able to adjust one's aim for squirt, swerve, and throw for the wide range of shots that occur over a wide range of conditions.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Matt]

"Parallel english" implies the cue is "parallel" to the desired CB direction (AKA, the "aiming line" for a center-ball hit). It can shifted before the bridge is placed or after, but the shift is "parallel."

So, in order for parallel english to work, would you have to adjust your shot speed and vertical angle of the cue so that the net "sqwerve" is close to 0 for every shot? This could be the next big thing once the TOI craze settles down.

 

[Alexplayspool]

Thanks to all of you for responding! I am so pumped up Matt because I have been learning to not pivot when down on the shot. I think of how much deflection may take place and I get in line with where I think I should aim before getting down on the shot. Yes, parallel English means simply shifting the cue completely parallel. A lot of the time, issues with wording are just silly semantics. Anyway, I am just wondering if I am making it more difficult for myself or if I am encountering more swerve and squirt by NOT using BHE or FHE. I only use parallel English all the time. I shift completely over. Dr. Dave said it takes many year of focus and being aware, to intuitively account for certain things in the sport. I may also be using a mix of FHE and BHE, which together, in some way, one may interpret as parallel English. Who knows. I think Dr. Dave does

 

[LAMas]

Thanks to all of you for responding! I am so pumped up Matt because I have been learning to not pivot when down on the shot. I think of how much deflection may take place and I get in line with where I think I should aim before getting down on the shot. Yes, parallel English means simply shifting the cue completely parallel. A lot of the time, issues with wording are just silly semantics. Anyway, I am just wondering if I am making it more difficult for myself or if I am encountering more swerve and squirt by NOT using BHE or FHE. I only use parallel English all the time. I shift completely over. Dr. Dave said it takes many year of focus and being aware, to intuitively account for certain things in the sport. I may also be using a mix of FHE and BHE, which together, in some way, one may interpret as parallel English. Who knows. I think Dr. Dave does

If the results are identical, then a pivot or parallel shift doesn't matter...unless you swipe the CB.

 

[Alexplayspool]

Thanks. AZB is amazing. Whoever told me not to come on here IS A LIAR. I have experienced such crap so far. I am glad I find my own way at times and I am glad to be on this site with all of you

 

[naji]

Swerve can't just conveniently cancel out CB squirt. It depends on pace, distance, cloth type and condition, etc. Squirt is a constant that can be directly compensated for, swerve is a variable that must be considered for each shot.

I will agree with you. What if I said vary elevation and learn swerve and squirt and how to cancel them. You have to learn this anyway for shots near rail

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

I will agree with you. What if I said vary elevation and learn swerve and squirt and how to cancel them. You have to learn this anyway for shots near rail

I'd say you are on your way to being a very good player once you can do that.

 

[His Boy Elroy]

There are many "physical phenomenon" and effects that come into play when using sidespin. In fact, there are about 37 of them. If one does not have knowledge, understanding, and/or an intuitive feel for these effects (whether they know they do or not), one will not be a top player.

For those interested, the 37 effects are listed, illustrated, and demonstrated on the squirt, swerve, and throw effects resource page.

Enjoy,
Dave

There's some terrific stuff on those resource pages. I just purchased your book, "The illustrated principles of pool and billiards." I'm looking forward to reading it.

 

[dr_dave]

There are many "physical phenomenon" and effects that come into play when using sidespin. In fact, there are about 37 of them. If one does not have knowledge, understanding, and/or an intuitive feel for these effects (whether they know they do or not), one will not be a top player.

For those interested, the 37 effects are listed, illustrated, and demonstrated on the squirt, swerve, and throw effects resource page.

There's some terrific stuff on those resource pages. I just purchased your book, "The illustrated principles of pool and billiards." I'm looking forward to reading it.

Thanks. I hope you enjoy and benefit from my book.

BTW, the book covers the basics of this stuff fairly well, but if you want a more-advanced resource, you should consider getting VEPS II - English and Position Control.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Schwinn]

I missed a medium slow speed shot pretty badly the other day because of swerve. Funny how that doesn't get as much press as deflection. These are all among the many factors our brains process subconsciously through practice. I agree with the original post. Stick with one shaft. I have been trying too many cues over the years... Finally, feel I can improve my consistency by sticking to one cue, which happens to be a "regular" shaft but I feel it is medium low squirt and plays how I want it to. Works for me and I can't blame the cue when I miss.

 

[JoeyA]

I'm not writing this post to create a shit storm but want to make sure that others realize that there are different perspectives out there. Each person is entitled to their opinion, as it should be.

As to using different shafts/cues, my experience is that I have no difficulty in moving from one shaft to another. I do notice that each shaft has its own particular "abilities" and while I find it easy to dial in quickly to a shaft/cue's properties, I like playing with a cue/shaft which comes close to having the properties of a LD shaft, which kind of balances the squirt and swerve of the cue ball on most shots.

Unlike some people I have multiple shafts for my two cues and have found myself learning how each shaft performs but leaning toward the shafts which squirt the cue ball less. I can play with a traditional maple shaft almost as well as an LD shaft.

It is possible that some people cannot move from shaft to shaft without some loss in ability to play at their regular high level. I just don't have that problem. I just don't like missing any shots because of equipment.

One of my shafts is a LD shaft and is very, very stiff and I find it easier to draw my cue ball when the cue ball is only 1/2" from the rail. I try to play with it on a regular basis to keep synced with its other "abilities" but primarily use it as my backup shaft.

I guess I'm really trying to say that each person needs to choose for themselves and just wanted to say how I view using different shafts and cues.

Each to their own.

JoeyA

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

I think too many folks are willing to toss the baby out with the bathwater. Variables don't need be avoided unless they are random variables beyond your control. Look at them as merely tools to master rather than evils to eliminate.

Throw, swerve, and deflection are all within your control through diligent practice. Learn to use them better than your opponent and you can do things he can't. This will put more beads on your side in the long run.

 

[Mikjary]

I'm not writing this post to create a shit storm but want to make sure that others realize that there are different perspectives out there. Each person is entitled to their opinion, as it should be.

As to using different shafts/cues, my experience is that I have no difficulty in moving from one shaft to another. I do notice that each shaft has its own particular "abilities" and while I find it easy to dial in quickly to a shaft/cue's properties, I like playing with a cue/shaft which comes close to having the properties of a LD shaft, which kind of balances the squirt and swerve of the cue ball on most shots.

Unlike some people I have multiple shafts for my two cues and have found myself learning how each shaft performs but leaning toward the shafts which squirt the cue ball less. I can play with a traditional maple shaft almost as well as an LD shaft.

It is possible that some people cannot move from shaft to shaft without some loss in ability to play at their regular high level. I just don't have that problem. I just don't like missing any shots because of equipment.

One of my shafts is a LD shaft and is very, very stiff and I find it easier to draw my cue ball when the cue ball is only 1/2" from the rail. I try to play with it on a regular basis to keep synced with its other "abilities" but primarily use it as my backup shaft.

I guess I'm really trying to say that each person needs to choose for themselves and just wanted to say how I view using different shafts and cues.

Each to their own.

JoeyA

I was the old school maple shaft guy that played for years with the whippy shaft and figured there was a lot of hype out there about LD shafts. I even bought a couple to see for myself and satisfy my negative outlook about how low deflection was a gimmick. I played with them for a very short period of time and stuck them in the closet, not really giving them a chance.

Recently, after dissecting my game and paying closer attention to my stroke, I pulled a LD shaft out and starting really playing with it. After 30 minutes, I was hooked. This is not hype or a gimmick. They play much better than the standard shafts. Unless I get my hands on Joey's maple shaft that plays with LD qualities, I'll never go back. :smile:

The feel and hit are very strange and disconcerting. I hate the short ferrule, too! :grin-square: But who cares when you're running out. The results speak for themselves.

Best,
Mike