My Thread… Regarding The Truth about so called ‘Objective Aiming Systems’ such as CTE

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Sir, with all due respect, PLEASE do not come into my thread & call anyone a LIAR or infer that they are such by saying what they said is a "LIE, flat out lie!"?

For one thing YOU were not quoted as saying anything. Perhaps it was something that John Barton said.

Robin may have made a mistake but there is no need nor justification to infer that anyone is lying.

Mike Howerton has asked (demanded) for politeness in my thread & I hereby do the same.

Please apologize & restate your objection.

Best Wishes to You & ALL.

By your own words, you lost any claim to politeness when you started out being impolite, and continue to do so. And, you have called others liars already in this thread, so stop being so hypocritical.

And, it's not YOUR thread. You just started the thread. As Mike said, anyone can post in it, so you have no right whatsoever to say who can post and who can't.
 
You must be kidding! I will defend myself against lies and doubly so when they are accompanied with "lol".....

Stan Shuffett

I'm not kidding at all & I seriously doubt that Mr. Howerton was kidding either.

You defending yourself (I know a bit about that.) is totally different than calling someone a liar.

Everyone is not equally proficient concerning the use of the English language. Miscommunication is one of, if not the most significant problems in the world.

Robin may have paraphrased incorrectly. I do not know. As I said, YOU were NOT quoted. SO... perhaps it was something that JB or another actually did say.

Regardless, there is no justification for inferring that Robin or anyone is a liar.

Unless, that is, one can prove such to be the case & if so that should accompany the accusation.

Can you show in Robin's post where he quoted you or that he said that YOU said anything? That would be the first step. You can not do that because he did not.

Hence your accusation is misplaced even from the start.

I won't ask you to apologize again. I think any unbiased reader can see the truth of the matter & who is in the right & who is not.
 
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I don't see what's so important about arguing about CTE being objective or not. It's clear to me that most people who claim that it is, has no real idea what the word entails, or are using the word in an ad-hoc definition of their own designs. It's marketing, and clique politics. Nothing more, nothing less. These are pool players and instructors, not scientists. No actual scientist would claim a system as a "center pocket system" without tons of disclaimers and explanations, because balls act differently with different speeds and spins (yes even on the vertical axis), not to mention balls being different etc.

On the matter of objectivity, I think a truely objective system could be made, on paper at least. The easiest would be a stick aiming system. Such and such a number of tips (size defined obviosly) away from center will produce x amount of angle at a standard speed and spin under standard conditions (which would be a PIA to define). Then you could have a table with compensations etc. You would also need to make a system to measure the angle to the pocket of course, which would be more of a challenge. Nobody would actually use such a system, though, because you'd either be looking up data in a book or having to memorize at least 75 different tip alignments (according to PJ). Then there's the matter of the compensations. Someone would have to invent a measurement system as well. The problem as well would be that the implementation would be subjective (obviously in the strictest sense), but also in a more general sense. We are not perfect machines, and we will not always be able to accurately aim the stick at a target outside of the ball, for instance. You might be bette at certain aims than at others etc.

Good systems are simple. A few standard alignments, and the subconscious fills out the blanks. Most good systems are of this type. It appears CTE is like this as well, from the videos Dan White posted. I could clearly see Stan Shuffet steering, as could anyone else with their eyes open. I believe this is what makes good shotmakers. When they are wrong, their subconscious make the correct adjustments with good timing and they end up making the ball anyway.

We've all experienced shooting a shot and feeling the arm swoop. Sometimes it works and at other times it fails in almost comical fashion. As we get better the fails become fewer and fewer, because we align more or less correctly for the most part. You will probably not even feel the corrections. Still you will have unwanted spin on the ball every now and then, even if you play decently.

Also it's weird how angry people get over this issue. Pool is supposed to be fun. When I watched this commercial in the 90's my first reaction was amusement, then pity for the people who needed the product and then both believed that it worked and that using it would be a good idea :). So long as using something is not directly detrimental to a persons life and well being, I believe it should be left to peoples common sense to protect them. You will make errors, and if the products are of a harmless type, you will learn from your mistakes. Of course I've bought almost every aiming system ever created, so I took the expensive course on the matter, lol:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GeF7A05zQ8
 
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I don't see what's so important about arguing about CTE being objective or not. It's clear to me that most people who claim that it is, has no real idea what the word entails, or are using the word in an ad-hoc definition of their own designs. It's marketing, and clique politics. Nothing more, nothing less. These are pool players and instructors, not scientists. No actual scientist would claim a system as a "center pocket system" without tons of disclaimers and explanations, because balls act differently with different speeds and spins (yes even on the vertical axis), not to mention balls being different etc.

On the matter of objectivity, I think a truely objective system could be made, on paper at least. The easiest would be a stick aiming system. Such and such a number of tips (size defined obviosly) away from center will produce x amount of angle at a standard speed and spin under standard conditions (which would be a PIA to define). Then you could have a table with compensations etc. You would also need to make a system to measure the angle to the pocket of course, which would be more of a challenge. Nobody would actually use such a system, though, because you'd either be looking up data in a book or having to memorize at least 75 different tip alignments (according to PJ). Then there's the matter of the compensations. Someone would have to invent a measurement system as well. The problem as well would be that the implementation would be subjective (obviously in the strictest sense), but also in a more general sense. We are not perfect machines, and we will not always be able to accurately aim the stick at a target outside of the ball, for instance. You might be bette at certain aims than at others etc.

Good systems are simple. A few standard alignments, and the subconscious fills out the blanks. Most good systems are of this type. It appears CTE is like this as well, from the videos Dan White posted. I could clearly see Stan Shuffet steering, as could anyone else with their eyes open. I believe this is what makes good shotmakers. When they are wrong, their subconscious make the correct adjustments with good timing and they end up making the ball anyway.

We've all experienced shooting a shot and feeling the arm swoop. Sometimes it works and at other times it fails in almost comical fashion. As we get better the fails become fewer and fewer, because we align more or less correctly for the most part. You will probably not even feel the corrections. Still you will have unwanted spin on the ball every now and then, even if you play decently.

Also it's weird how angry people get over this issue. Pool is supposed to be fun. When I watched this commercial in the 90's my first reaction was amusement, then pity for the people who needed the product and then both believed that it worked and that using it would be a good idea :). Of course I've bought almost every aiming system ever created, so I'm no better, lol:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GeF7A05zQ8

I guess people get angry when they read posts like yours that are filled with untruths, misinformation spoken as gospel, ect. Yes, pool is supposed to be fun. But when people like Rick, Pat, Lou, Dan, you, keep posting misinformation just to discredit and keep others from learning, it does take a lot of the fun out of it.

Then, instead of people learning something to help their game, all they get is threads full of arguing and one in particular going off on rants that make no sense whatsoever because they are filled with untruths and twisting of words.
 
I'm not kidding at all & I seriously doubt that Mr. Howerton was kidding either.

You defending yourself (I know a bit about that) is totally different than calling someone a liar.

Everyone is not equally proficient concerning the use of the English language. Miscommunication is one of, if not the most significant problems in the world.

Robin may have paraphrased incorrectly. I do not know. As I said, YOU were NOT quoted. SO... perhaps it was something that JB or another actually did say

Regardless, there is no justification for inferring that Robin or anyone is a liar.

Unless, that is, one can prove such to be the case & if so that should accompany the accusation.

Can you show in Robin's post where he quoted you or that he said that YOU said anything? That would be the first step. You can not do that because he did not.

Hence your accusation is misplaced even from the start.

I won't ask you to apologize again. I think any unbiased reader can see the truth of the matter & who is in the right & who is not.

And when do you plan on apologizing to Stan and many others on here?
 
I guess people get angry when they read posts like yours that are filled with untruths, misinformation spoken as gospel, ect. Yes, pool is supposed to be fun. But when people like Rick, Pat, Lou, Dan, you, keep posting misinformation just to discredit and keep others from learning, it does take a lot of the fun out of it.

Then, instead of people learning something to help their game, all they get is threads full of arguing and one in particular going off on rants that make no sense whatsoever because they are filled with untruths and twisting of words.

I stand by every statement in my post. It is my firm belief that every one of them is true, to the best of my knowledge.

1. Spin or lack of spin on the vertical axis will change the cut angle (on at least some shots)

2. Speed will influence the cut angle on some shots. Any "center pocket system" must address this and the above point, and if "objective" show adjustments needed.

3. Great shotmakers make correct and well timed "last second compensations", on the rare occations that they are misalligned. This is from my own observation only. I cannot prove this, which is why I "believe" this to be the case. I do not state it as fact.

4. People claiming that an aiming system is "objective" is at best misusing the word. I outlined the disclaimers etc I feel would be necessary to approach an "objective" system.

5. Stan Shuffet was steering his cue. I conclude this from Dan Whites video. My vision is excellent, and I have no reason to believe he somehow doctored the video.

6. I also believe the part about good system having a few standard alignments. After extensively researching the matter, I believe CTE is of this type (as originally described). That is not to say that the users cannot modify these alignments and make their own, so as to make it more complete. If this is somehow proven wrong, I'll happily retract this statement.
 
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By your own words, you lost any claim to politeness when you started out being impolite, and continue to do so. And, you have called others liars already in this thread, so stop being so hypocritical.

And, it's not YOUR thread. You just started the thread. As Mike said, anyone can post in it, so you have no right whatsoever to say who can post and who can't.

Neil,

You play fast & loose with the truth. I don't generally call anyone a liar, at least not without an explanation of an if then situation that would indicate that an individual might or is perhaps telling a lie. I have said that some have made untrue statements.

Saying someone is mistaken, misrepresented a situation, or has made an untrue statement is not calling them a liar.

That is part of what a subjective interpretation can be when compared to the objective truth.

What one interprets matters to be does not make them accurate or truthful but that does not mean that one is a liar.

Twisting, distorting, misrepresenting facts can all be a means of playing loose with the actual truth. If one does so by mistake vs intentionally might determine whether or not someone else might 'judge' whether or not one could or would be considered a liar.

It seems to me that you consider yourself to be the objective judge of what is & is not fact. That could NOT be farther from the truth & I think most can readily see & understand that.

I also think anyone can look & see that almost ALL that you do recently on the subject of CTE is to personally 'attack' anyone that is not PRO CTE.

That seems to be a common tactic of many proponents of CTE instead of staying on topic & making logical 'arguments' to support their position.

I am NOT going to get into a back & forth with you, unless you again make another totally incorrect & inaccurate statement regarding me & then I will perhaps respond again.

Best Wishes to You & ALL.

PS Have you ever heard of speaking figuratively or do you know what a figure of speech is? Naturally I do not OWN this thread & certainly I do not have any 'right' or power to say who can & can not post in it. We are ALL here as matter of privilege granted by the owners of the site.

BUT... I can state my intentions for the thread that I opened, with specific permission granted by an owner, Mike Howerton, as I have done... &... I can ask that those intentions & wishes not be violated, as I have also done.
 
I stand by every statement in my post. It is my firm belief that every one of them is true, to the best of my knowledge.

1. Spin or lack of spin on the vertical axis will change the cut angle (on at least some shots)
And you are unaware of how Stan has addressed this.
2. Speed will influence the cut angle on some shots. Any "center pocket system" must address this and the above point, and if "objective" show adjustments needed.
Again, you are unaware of what the system teaches.
3. Great shotmakers make correct and well timed "last second compensations", on the rare occations that they are misalligned. This is from my own observation only. I cannot prove this, which is why I "believe" this to be the case. I do not state it as fact.
I disagree with you here. Great shotmakers align correctly to start with. They don't have to make last second adjustments. Those last second adjustments are what hold many back from being great.
4. People claiming that an aiming system is "objective" is at best misusing the word. I outlined the disclaimers etc I feel would be necessary to approach an "objective" system.
Numerous times, including in this very thread, I have shown why the term objective is correct. The problem arises when some take a word with a number of meanings, and assign only the meaning to it that fits their agenda, and dismiss all other meanings.
5. Stan Shuffet was steering his cue. I conclude this from Dan Whites video. My vision is excellent, and I have no reason to believe he somehow doctored the video.
Stan already addressed this several times. He wasn't steering it, he was putting english on it.
6. I also believe the part about good system having a few standard alignments. After extensively researching the matter, I believe CTE is of this type (as originally described). That is not to say that the users cannot modify these alignments and make their own, so as to make it more complete. If this is somehow proven wrong, I'll happily retract this statement.

Some users have modified the system to suit themselves. That is fine if it works for THEM. That does not necessarily make it more complete. CTE ProOne as Stan teaches it is very complete.
 
Neil,

You play fast & loose with the truth. I don't generally call anyone a liar, at least not without an explanation of an if then situation that would indicate that an individual might or is perhaps telling a lie. I have said that some have made untrue statements.

Saying someone is mistaken, misrepresented a situation, or has made an untrue statement is not calling them a liar.

That is part of what a subjective interpretation can be when compared to the objective truth.

What one interprets matters to be does not make them accurate or truthful but that does not mean that one is a liar.

Twisting, distorting, misrepresenting facts can all be a means of playing loose with the actual truth. If one does so by mistake vs intentionally might determine whether or not someone else might 'judge' whether or not one could or would be considered a liar.

It seems to me that you consider yourself to be the objective judge of what is & is not fact. That could NOT be farther from the truth & I think most can readily see & understand that.

I also think anyone can look & see that almost ALL that you do recently on the subject of CTE is to personally 'attack' anyone that is not PRO CTE.

That seems to be a common tactic of many proponents of CTE instead of staying on topic & making logical 'arguments' to support their position.

I am NOT going to get into a back & forth with you, unless you again make another totally incorrect & inaccurate statement regarding me & then I will perhaps respond again.

Best Wishes to You & ALL.

PS Have you ever heard of speaking figuratively or do you know what a figure of speech is? Naturally I do not OWN this thread & certainly I do not have any 'right' or power to say who can & can not post in it. We are ALL here as matter of privilege granted by the owners of the site.

BUT... I can state my intentions for the thread that I opened, with specific permission granted by an owner, Mike Howerton, as I have done... &... I can ask that those intentions & wishes not be violated, as I have also done.

Twist it all you want to, you are just deceiving yourself, because you aren't fooling anyone else. A lie is a lie. I also suggest you look up the definition of some of the words you constantly like to use, because apparently you don't understand the meaning of them. Such as disengenous. A deceiver is a liar. You use it all the time and then say you don't call others liars.

You constantly like to twist things, and then lie about them later. As you did in this very post. You say now that you don't own this thread, and have no power to say who posts in it, yet you have also stated that you don't want certain people to post, and demanded several times that they don't. Do you not read what you yourself write? And, that doesn't even cover your mistruths about what I do and don't post. You state that just to slander, and have no basis to make that claim. While you never post anything about CTE except to slander it.
 
Some users have modified the system to suit themselves. That is fine if it works for THEM. That does not necessarily make it more complete. CTE ProOne as Stan teaches it is very complete.

Good. Now we are getting somewhere. I would be happy to know what EXACT adjustments are to be made as a result of spin/speed throw variations, because I'm unaware of it being mentioned on DVD 1.

On shotmaking we'll have to agree to disagree. I will however point out that the misallignment corrections in good players are RARE and relatively small. I of course cannot speak of ALL great shotmakers, only the few I've had the privilege to study up close. Maybe they aren't even all that great (compared to John Schmidt for instance) but they certainly are of Eurotour standard.

On objectivity: It is clear to all that all balls can be divided into quarters, that there is such a thing as center ball, and that a half tip pivot can be objectively defined. If that is all it takes to label the system objective, then it is. I will even agree to the fact that in people with two eyes and good eyesight the visuals can be objective as distinct visuals. ie center to edge, edge to A for instance could possibly be an objective visual with certain conditions being met. I will not say that they will objectively be unique for each ball position on the table, which seems to be the claim made by CTE. For one I cannot see any possible objective mechanism or phenomenon that would make this possible, or even plausible, unless you are severely tilting or angling your head away from the shot, even so I would have to be explained in order to be reproduced in an objective manner.

On the steering issue, I don't believe the english explanation is satisfactory on the CTE shots. Why would he apply english when demonstrating CTE, when it is a center ball system? I could understand it in a game situation, but in a learning situation wouldn't you want to hit center ball, when that is the baseline for the system?

I disagree on CTE being complete, as described. At this point I don't think anything short of describing the exact mechanism by which it works, would change my mind. As that obviously isn't happening any time soon, I guess it would be pointless to discuss this much further. That aside I much appreciate the change in tone in your latest reply. It is always much more fruitful to discuss things in a matter of fact way.
 
Well...

It took less than 7 hours overnight & on the 10th post for THIS thread to start down the death spiral into the hell hole of anything associated with anything to do with the claim of an 'objective aiming system' more commonly known as CTE.

It seems that what the proponents, advocates, & defenders beyond rational logical reason of such, want for their threads is NOT allowed, by them, for those on the other side of the coin.

So... I think that type of hypocrisy should result in ANY requests or 'demands' for keeping 'negativity' out of 'their' threads as null & void or not even worthy of consideration. I've actually seen very few that have asked any questions regarding help in learning how to use or better use CTE & the few that I have seen have been rather rudely & with no civility been rebuffed & called 'haters' for trying the learn the method that some say must be learned before any substantive questions can even be asked. How illogical & nonsensical & disingenuous it that?

If everyone was more like morht/Monty, perhaps the CTE 'war' could be pulled back into a civilized summit meeting where matters might be discussed in a civil & somewhat polite manner.

But...

Tit for Tat, pot calling kettle black, hypocrisy, or whatever, shows how disingenuous & bias those 'no negativity' requests on their part were & are. There can be no question or doubt regarding what CTE is. It must be taken 100% as it is 'presented' & described or... you're a 'hater' & 'liar' or worse.

There were rules of war back in the day & when one side violated them the other side could call foul, but when that side also violated the same rule of war, they lost ALL credibility when they again called foul.

I think that most of the general membership & visitors that only read here at AZB can see the reality of matters & realize in what camp the true logic & objective determinations actually live in regards to the 'questions' about any supposed 'objective aiming system'.

Logic & science on one side...

& fanciful, speculative, whimsical, & a seemingly endless fallacy filled 'analogies' that are not even really relative to the issue constantly being put forth by the other side with no real answers to the legitimate questions regarding such a grandiose, intriguing, & solitary claim.

A CTE proponent sort of describe CTE to me in PM as the required perceptions not really being objective but that it is a systematic approach that results in a lot less guessing for him vs the ghost ball method from which he immediately came.

I think I, & even PJ could agree with that as long as the adjective of 'objective' is not applied to it & left out of any description.

I think many, if not most all of us, were filled with enthusiasm when we evolved from the ghost ball concept to what ever more visually solid approach or method to which we went. Perhaps that is partly why some so vehemently defend 'their' method or 'system' even though it is not WHAT they think or believe that it is.


Perhaps 2 or 3 member debate teams shoud be established & ALL others be kept out of a thread for the purpose of debating whether or not CTE is truly an 'objective aiming system'.

But it would need a moderator to call foul for any disallowed illogical arguments.

Perhaps then the truth would become blatantly apparent & the 'war' could be put to end with an appropriate conclusion & a Truce.

Perhaps then a cooperative effort could be had to try to determine the true value.

Best Wishes to ALL.

If you are going to post anything about cte please include the amount of your training and the quality of the instructor teaching you. Otherwise how could anyone take you seriously?
Until you can answer this you have no business saying what CTE is or isn't.

PS you've disrupted threads for two years with over 12,000 posts in that short time, what did you really expect.
 
Sir, with all due respect, PLEASE do not come into my thread & call anyone a LIAR or infer that they are such by saying what they said is a "LIE, flat out lie!"?

For one thing YOU were not quoted as saying anything. Perhaps it was something that John Barton said.

Robin may have made a mistake but there is no need nor justification to infer that anyone is lying.

Mike Howerton has asked (demanded) for politeness in my thread & I hereby do the same.

Please apologize & restate your objection.

Best Wishes to You & ALL.

Mike Howerton has asked YOU to stay out of what you know so little about. He has not made any special demands for your thread. It's you that has been warned not everyone else.
 
I don't see what's so important about arguing about CTE being objective or not. It's clear to me that most people who claim that it is, has no real idea what the word entails, or are using the word in an ad-hoc definition of their own designs. It's marketing, and clique politics. Nothing more, nothing less. These are pool players and instructors, not scientists. No actual scientist would claim a system as a "center pocket system" without tons of disclaimers and explanations, because balls act differently with different speeds and spins (yes even on the vertical axis), not to mention balls being different etc.

On the matter of objectivity, I think a truely objective system could be made, on paper at least. The easiest would be a stick aiming system. Such and such a number of tips (size defined obviosly) away from center will produce x amount of angle at a standard speed and spin under standard conditions (which would be a PIA to define). Then you could have a table with compensations etc. You would also need to make a system to measure the angle to the pocket of course, which would be more of a challenge. Nobody would actually use such a system, though, because you'd either be looking up data in a book or having to memorize at least 75 different tip alignments (according to PJ). Then there's the matter of the compensations. Someone would have to invent a measurement system as well. The problem as well would be that the implementation would be subjective (obviously in the strictest sense), but also in a more general sense. We are not perfect machines, and we will not always be able to accurately aim the stick at a target outside of the ball, for instance. You might be bette at certain aims than at others etc.

Good systems are simple. A few standard alignments, and the subconscious fills out the blanks. Most good systems are of this type. It appears CTE is like this as well, from the videos Dan White posted. I could clearly see Stan Shuffet steering, as could anyone else with their eyes open. I believe this is what makes good shotmakers. When they are wrong, their subconscious make the correct adjustments with good timing and they end up making the ball anyway.

We've all experienced shooting a shot and feeling the arm swoop. Sometimes it works and at other times it fails in almost comical fashion. As we get better the fails become fewer and fewer, because we align more or less correctly for the most part. You will probably not even feel the corrections. Still you will have unwanted spin on the ball every now and then, even if you play decently.

Also it's weird how angry people get over this issue. Pool is supposed to be fun. When I watched this commercial in the 90's my first reaction was amusement, then pity for the people who needed the product and then both believed that it worked and that using it would be a good idea :). So long as using something is not directly detrimental to a persons life and well being, I believe it should be left to peoples common sense to protect them. You will make errors, and if the products are of a harmless type, you will learn from your mistakes. Of course I've bought almost every aiming system ever created, so I took the expensive course on the matter, lol:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GeF7A05zQ8

Good Post, Sir & I thank YOU for YOUR input.

The only real concern I have is for those that might waste time, more than a year for TonyTheTiger, & never get that for which they are pursuing, 'an objective aiming system'. A waste of one's valuable time is harmful.

If that description would be retracted & never repeated, then perhaps all of the hub bub would go away along with it.

Please do not let the attempted 'bullying' put the thought of going away back into your mind as it did a while back. You & your experience are an asset to AZB & all of the many many that only read & hardly ever if ever post, along with others that might learn from your experience & what you say in your posts.

Best Wishes & Thanks Again for YOUR input.
 
I'm not kidding at all & I seriously doubt that Mr. Howerton was kidding either.

You defending yourself (I know a bit about that.) is totally different than calling someone a liar.

Everyone is not equally proficient concerning the use of the English language. Miscommunication is one of, if not the most significant problems in the world.

Robin may have paraphrased incorrectly. I do not know. As I said, YOU were NOT quoted. SO... perhaps it was something that JB or another actually did say.

Regardless, there is no justification for inferring that Robin or anyone is a liar.

Unless, that is, one can prove such to be the case & if so that should accompany the accusation.

Can you show in Robin's post where he quoted you or that he said that YOU said anything? That would be the first step. You can not do that because he did not.

Hence your accusation is misplaced even from the start.

I won't ask you to apologize again. I think any unbiased reader can see the truth of the matter & who is in the right & who is not.

Maybe you should ask Robin where he got it from. I believe he will answer truthfully. After all it can be researched
 
Twist it all you want to, you are just deceiving yourself, because you aren't fooling anyone else. A lie is a lie. I also suggest you look up the definition of some of the words you constantly like to use, because apparently you don't understand the meaning of them. Such as disengenous. A deceiver is a liar. You use it all the time and then say you don't call others liars.

You constantly like to twist things, and then lie about them later. As you did in this very post. You say now that you don't own this thread, and have no power to say who posts in it, yet you have also stated that you don't want certain people to post, and demanded several times that they don't. Do you not read what you yourself write? And, that doesn't even cover your mistruths about what I do and don't post. You state that just to slander, and have no basis to make that claim. While you never post anything about CTE except to slander it.

dis·in·gen·u·ous
ˌdisənˈjenyo͞oəs/
adjective
not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
synonyms: insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying, mendacious; hypocritical
"that innocent, teary-eyed look is just part of a disingenuous act"



Your post here is probably a near perfect example of YOU & what YOU do, twist & distort.

I have had to point out such in my defense TOO MANY TIMES for me to remember. count, or keep track of.

You either intentionally twist & distort or... you have some reading comprehension issue, perhaps caused by a bias on your part.

I've made NO demands. I have made sincere requests by expressing my wishes.

I made NO statement that I did not want certain people to post in this thread. I made it known that I did not want certain 'arguments' or positions to be stated here as they have been so stated many many times in other threads.

I think most unbiased individuals can see the truth of matters here & put I my faith in them & their intelligence.

Best Wishes to ALL.
 
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Good. Now we are getting somewhere. I would be happy to know what EXACT adjustments are to be made as a result of spin/speed throw variations, because I'm unaware of it being mentioned on DVD 1.

On shotmaking we'll have to agree to disagree. I will however point out that the misallignment corrections in good players are RARE and relatively small. I of course cannot speak of ALL great shotmakers, only the few I've had the privilege to study up close. Maybe they aren't even all that great (compared to John Schmidt for instance) but they certainly are of Eurotour standard.

On objectivity: It is clear to all that all balls can be divided into quarters, that there is such a thing as center ball, and that a half tip pivot can be objectively defined. If that is all it takes to label the system objective, then it is. I will even agree to the fact that in people with two eyes and good eyesight the visuals can be objective as distinct visuals. ie center to edge, edge to A for instance could possibly be an objective visual with certain conditions being met. I will not say that they will objectively be unique for each ball position on the table, which seems to be the claim made by CTE. For one I cannot see any possible objective mechanism or phenomenon that would make this possible, or even plausible, unless you are severely tilting or angling your head away from the shot, even so I would have to be explained in order to be reproduced in an objective manner.

On the steering issue, I don't believe the english explanation is satisfactory on the CTE shots. Why would he apply english when demonstrating CTE, when it is a center ball system? I could understand it in a game situation, but in a learning situation wouldn't you want to hit center ball, when that is the baseline for the system?

I disagree on CTE being complete, as described. At this point I don't think anything short of describing the exact mechanism by which it works, would change my mind. As that obviously isn't happening any time soon, I guess it would be pointless to discuss this much further. That aside I much appreciate the change in tone in your latest reply. It is always much more fruitful to discuss things in a matter of fact way.

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:
 
If you are going to post anything about cte please include the amount of your training and the quality of the instructor teaching you. Otherwise how could anyone take you seriously?
Until you can answer this you have no business saying what CTE is or isn't.

PS you've disrupted threads for two years with over 12,000 posts in that short time, what did you really expect.

I rather expected the face of hypocrisy to show up just as it did.

Your stats are incorrect just as is your supposed logic & even if they were correct, your statement would still be incorrect & misleading.

Best Wishes to ALL.
 
Mike Howerton has asked YOU to stay out of what you know so little about. He has not made any special demands for your thread. It's you that has been warned not everyone else.

Again your first statement is incorrect & misleading. You're putting words into Mike's mouth that he did not say.

Your last statement is somewhat also misleading as ALL have been warned in another thread.

Best Wishes to All.
 
If you are going to post anything about cte please include the amount of your training and the quality of the instructor teaching you. Otherwise how could anyone take you seriously?
Until you can answer this you have no business saying what CTE is or isn't.

PS you've disrupted threads for two years with over 12,000 posts in that short time, what did you really expect.

I rather expected the face of hypocrisy to show up just as it did.

Your stats are incorrect just as is your supposed logic & even if they were correct, your statement would still be incorrect & misleading.

Best Wishes to ALL.

My bad. 3 years and almost 13,000 posts and guessing 7,000 pm's.
And your qualifications to properly discuss CTE are?
 
Good. Now we are getting somewhere. I would be happy to know what EXACT adjustments are to be made as a result of spin/speed throw variations, because I'm unaware of it being mentioned on DVD 1.

On shotmaking we'll have to agree to disagree. I will however point out that the misallignment corrections in good players are RARE and relatively small. I of course cannot speak of ALL great shotmakers, only the few I've had the privilege to study up close. Maybe they aren't even all that great (compared to John Schmidt for instance) but they certainly are of Eurotour standard.

On objectivity: It is clear to all that all balls can be divided into quarters, that there is such a thing as center ball, and that a half tip pivot can be objectively defined. If that is all it takes to label the system objective, then it is. I will even agree to the fact that in people with two eyes and good eyesight the visuals can be objective as distinct visuals. ie center to edge, edge to A for instance could possibly be an objective visual with certain conditions being met. I will not say that they will objectively be unique for each ball position on the table, which seems to be the claim made by CTE. For one I cannot see any possible objective mechanism or phenomenon that would make this possible, or even plausible, unless you are severely tilting or angling your head away from the shot, even so I would have to be explained in order to be reproduced in an objective manner.

On the steering issue, I don't believe the english explanation is satisfactory on the CTE shots. Why would he apply english when demonstrating CTE, when it is a center ball system? I could understand it in a game situation, but in a learning situation wouldn't you want to hit center ball, when that is the baseline for the system?

I disagree on CTE being complete, as described. At this point I don't think anything short of describing the exact mechanism by which it works, would change my mind. As that obviously isn't happening any time soon, I guess it would be pointless to discuss this much further. That aside I much appreciate the change in tone in your latest reply. It is always much more fruitful to discuss things in a matter of fact way.

If you are unaware of the adjustments, then you haven't studied the DVD very well. Of course there are adjustments for any change from the SOP. As far as spin, it is a center axis aiming system. As stated many, many, times, if one uses english, then one needs to adjust for it the exact same way they would if they weren't using the system.

As far as speed issues, same thing that has been stated. One should strive to shoot most shots with the same speed. If changing that speed for whatever reason, one must be aware that minute adjustments may be necessary. And one is to compensate from center pocket according to what their changes will change.

As to objectivity, then you no longer have a problem with the term. No where does Stan, or I believe any other user of CTE claim that CTE is 100% objective with 0% subjectivity in it. What has been claimed, is that it is an objective aiming system. Which, as you see, it is. And, that it is the most objective system at this time. Absolutely nothing wrong with those two statements. The whole problem with the word objectivity arises from one person, Rick. He has made an issue of a non-issue, and continues to do so with his false claims.

As far as CTE being complete. If it wasn't, there would be only Stan able to use it. Yet, many are using it. How could they be using it if it was incomplete and they couldn't follow the steps to conclusion? And, as far as I know, every last one of us that can use it well have stated that there was an AHA moment. That moment where we suddenly realized that if we just followed the steps as given and quit worrying about the outcome, then the system works just as described.
 
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