My TOI experience

I am taking it back off the shelf

I Have been using TOI off and on for about 5 months and have had mixed results...


I was using it a few months back exclusively and placing in some local tourneys in my area as an A player and winning a few of them... then one night i had someone change my tip and i got into action(STuPid) , because i dont get to play that often i matched up and lost badly... so i had to abadon toi in that match because the tip wasnt responding well. after that i got out of the habit of using it and my game lowered or went back to my high b speed and i have been eratic ever since - experimenting with the mullen method, cte, fractional... etc.. My brain is tired and i just wanna go back to what was starting to work..

its the extension through the ball that is finally making it click for me--- thanks for sharing your story....
 
Jay try this

Your tip change would prob throw off your touch on TOI. Grab a table and toss out the balls and just start sighting it in again. Prob wont take more than an hour. You were playing great before the tip change, dont let a tip knock you out of your TOI groove. Spend the hour sight it in and get back on the winning path.

Good luck buddy

Pat
 
obrien714 said:
Your tip change would prob throw off your touch on TOI. Grab a table and toss out the balls and just start sighting it in again. Prob wont take more than an hour. You were playing great before the tip change, dont let a tip knock you out of your TOI groove. Spend the hour sight it in and get back on the winning path.

Good luck buddy

Pat
Click to expand...

Thanks Pat...

I just shot for an hour and i am starting to feel it again.. that pinch feeling is unmistakeable-- Those long down the rail shots are like butter again... cant believe i got out of the groove... ARGH... cost me a ton of money...

i even let my bridge get too long(over 12 inches..) --- making a conscious effort to shorten it again..

watching the ultimate secrets video ... accelerate through the ball-- thwack...
 
other videos...

You know what would be cool???? is to see other videos that people post using TOI..

They have them for CTE and pro one... I think it would be cool to see guys like us using cjs system on video..

I believe that Gerry and some of the other guys videos have amped up the popularity of cte and pro one..

i have used cte and pro one with some success but not like i have had using toi...
...

anyways just my 2 cents....
 
At some point you MUST TRUST to play at your highest level

obrien714 said:
Your tip change would prob throw off your touch on TOI. Grab a table and toss out the balls and just start sighting it in again. Prob wont take more than an hour. You were playing great before the tip change, dont let a tip knock you out of your TOI groove. Spend the hour sight it in and get back on the winning path.

Good luck buddy

Pat
Click to expand...

Yes, this is good advice, Pat, the Touch of Inside is what it says "A TOUCH TECHNIQUE".....it's not a visual aiming system and I've said this time and time again. There's no "magical" visual way to pocket balls BECAUSE you must hit the cue ball precisely and consistently. If it wasn't for this factor you could use a "system" and make every ball every time. Of course, if this was the case everyone would run out every time and the game would be silly.

The TOI frees you up to use your instinctive aiming by simply favoring the inside of the cue ball. Favor the inside and calibrate the shot to hit the center of the pocket.....by allowing your unconscious to get involved.

I also use a visual connection of either seeing the shot or connecting a portion of the cue ball to the object ball's center or edge to allow my mind to know what it's supposed to do once down on the shot. At some point you MUST TRUST to play at your highest level and this the "master system".......trust.

That's the "secret" that all us champion players actually use.....we "FEEL" the shot, the pocket and the cue ball contact. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
video

HOperfully i will have a table up in my house in the next month or so. i will post some videos. id like to see a few others do the same.



JayCall said:
You know what would be cool???? is to see other videos that people post using TOI..

They have them for CTE and pro one... I think it would be cool to see guys like us using cjs system on video..

I believe that Gerry and some of the other guys videos have amped up the popularity of cte and pro one..

i have used cte and pro one with some success but not like i have had using toi...
...

anyways just my 2 cents....
Click to expand...
 
treat your TOI like it's a different part of center

ENGLISH! said:
Obrian,

What you just 'real eyesed' is something that I would not really call TOI even though you may be hitting the ball to the inside on the CB.

You just hit a mini masse.

When using the TOI method, one does not want the CB to swerve. If the CB swerves it was hit too softly, or I should say, with not enough forward momentum, for the amount of tip offset & spin put on the ball. CJ sometimes says in the DVDs that he is going to let it spin when talking about getting position. what he means IMHO is that he is not going to hit it in a combination of little spin to speed but rather in a combination of more spin with less speed.

I hope this puts your shot in a better light & gives you a better understanding of the intentions with which one uses an off center hit on the CB.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
Click to expand...

There's never a concern for "swerve" using TOI because it's hit like "center ball," just a "Touch" inside....so the spin is minimal, certainly not enough to ever make it curve.

Just treat your TOI like it's a different part of center, it's not about spinning the cue ball, it's about starting it off on a path that deflects slightly away from the object ball.
 
CJ Wiley said:
There's never a concern for "swerve" using TOI because it's hit like "center ball," just a "Touch" inside....so the spin is minimal, certainly not enough to ever make it curve.

Just treat your TOI like it's a different part of center, it's not about spinning the cue ball, it's about starting it off on a path that deflects slightly away from the object ball.
Click to expand...

I like to call it "the new center". Think of it that way and the rest takes care of itself. ;)
 
The "Touch" of inside is more about the "Touch" than the "inside".

West Point 1987 said:
I like to call it "the new center". Think of it that way and the rest takes care of itself. ;)
Click to expand...

That's probably better for those that get confused that "inside" and "inside english" are two different things. The "Touch" of inside is more about the "Touch" than the "inside". :D

Every day I hear from more and more players that are "getting" the Touch of Inside concept and none of them can believe it took them so long. It's just one of those things in life, maybe we're all looking for something complicated when it's the simplicity that's key.

I can relate though, it took me a long time to understand why I drive on the parkway and park on the driveway. ;)
 
Yeah... I am a beat your head into the ground kinda guy...

--- i matched up against a pretty strong a player in my area the other night after working a 10 hour shift. He was in dead punch when i came in so it took a while for me to get calibrated. Even though i lost to this guy i consider it a lesson because when he is shooting i pay attention to his patterns and where he strikes the cueball.. AND a lot of his hits were a touch to the inside of the cueball. and the ball reacted like on a string..

it was interesting to see..

I had some really good outs that had him shaking his head so i consider it a victory..

I still have some issues when it comes to mental game because when i was in the chair i was deciding in my mind how many sets i was gonna allow myself to lose to this guy... ARGH..

on the table i was executing the shots but he was just a little better.. I am CLOSE.

Anyways CJ - i really like some of your mental game stuff you talk about in inside secrets, i need more. i think this is one of the things thats holding me back..


Thinking about buying that mind pool hypnosis dvd...


ok i am very random today...
 
cheating the pocket (targeting either side intentionally).

Yes, the 'Inside Secrets' shows my mental side secrets. We just re did the whole DVD's sound, we weren't using the program we are now (when we originally made B.I.S.) and it's much better. Like anything else there's a learning curve in making these DVDs and we've come a long way in a year.

When you're practicing the TOI just make sure you develop a consistent shot speed, this way your mind will start to coordinate with how the cue ball is moving. The key to pool is connecting what's happening with the cue ball to what you "think" is happening and this can't be done using "center ball".

The reason is, when trying to hit center you will error slightly on one side or the other (occasionally depending on your stroke's accuracy), and this makes the cue ball deflect. You are telling your mind it's going straight (with center) and it's really not.

This creates incongruity and you will lose the ability to "think" the cue ball to over cut or undercut so this also effects a crucial part of pool.....cheating the pocket (targeting either side intentionally).



JayCall said:
--- i matched up against a pretty strong a player in my area the other night after working a 10 hour shift. He was in dead punch when i came in so it took a while for me to get calibrated. Even though i lost to this guy i consider it a lesson because when he is shooting i pay attention to his patterns and where he strikes the cueball.. AND a lot of his hits were a touch to the inside of the cueball. and the ball reacted like on a string..

it was interesting to see..

I had some really good outs that had him shaking his head so i consider it a victory..

I still have some issues when it comes to mental game because when i was in the chair i was deciding in my mind how many sets i was gonna allow myself to lose to this guy... ARGH..

on the table i was executing the shots but he was just a little better.. I am CLOSE.

Anyways CJ - i really like some of your mental game stuff you talk about in inside secrets, i need more. i think this is one of the things thats holding me back..


Thinking about buying that mind pool hypnosis dvd...


ok i am very random today...
Click to expand...
 
CJ Wiley said:
Yes, the 'Inside Secrets' shows my mental side secrets. We just re did the whole DVD's sound, we weren't using the program we are now (when we originally made B.I.S.) and it's much better. Like anything else there's a learning curve in making these DVDs and we've come a long way in a year.

When you're practicing the TOI just make sure you develop a consistent shot speed, this way your mind will start to coordinate with how the cue ball is moving. The key to pool is connecting what's happening with the cue ball to what you "think" is happening and this can't be done using "center ball".

The reason is, when trying to hit center you will error slightly on one side or the other (occasionally depending on your stroke's accuracy), and this makes the cue ball deflect. You are telling your mind it's going straight (with center) and it's really not.

This creates incongruity and you will lose the ability to "think" the cue ball to over cut or undercut so this also effects a crucial part of pool.....cheating the pocket (targeting either side intentionally).
Click to expand...



YES.... that is what i am talking about. I caught a gear against the same guy from my earlier post last night --- used 90% TOI and three part pocket system...


Had a chance to win the first set hill hill but missed position on the 6... buried him and he kicked it in and ran out...

second set 1-1 he hooked me on the seven ball.... i kicked two rails under the ball and sent the seven into the corner. -- he didnt get back to the table til 4-1.. --- poor guy was holding in a gnarly pee for a while... and i dont play at warp speed... lol

and then i broke dry he missed and i ran to the 9 -- short shot about 20 degrees and i put a tentative stroke on it... ARGH.... back down to earth..

I won that one a few games later. but i never got back to that gear again.... played good but the concentration shifted and i struggled on a few racks i shouldve ran out.---

mental game was better-- need work on my patterns..

-----------
 
When I shoot in my basement I use both practice both T.O.I and center ball. I've come to the conclusion that T.O.I. Is the superior method but I still love the challenge of improving my center ball hit. Also I don't really enjoy watching pool matches on TV or the Internetui but I love watching snooker on You Tube and if I could get over my bashfulness, I might just visit a pool room in Chicago about five miles away that has a 12 foot snooker table. So I have a littlle theory on why perfection in the center ball hit is unattainable for pro pool players, why few of them have success in snooker, and why all of them, as C.J says, forego the center all hit and are "doing something with the ball".....A fiddle and a violin are the exact same instrument. When a fiddle player plays the instrument they call it a fiddle. When a violinist plays the same instrument they call it a violin. A fiddle player is an entertainer. A violinist is an artist. The world needs both entertainers and artists and one isn't any more noble than the other. A pool player is an entertainer. A snooker player is an artist. A pool player has the same type of personality and mindset as a juggler or a plate spinner. Many of Willie Mosconi's extended family members were vaudeville performers. Those types of personalities are the same types of personalities that are attracted to pool. So I'm reaching a point in my center ball hit where I'm beginning to feel like an artist at it, or a violinist, or a snooker player. At the same time I lack many of the traits of the fiddle player which are so vital to success in pool games. I do, however, at least possess a fiddle player's trait that allows me to execute the T.O.I. Executing T.O.I is just darn fun. Heck; I'm entertaining myself when I do it. I shoot much faster and looser when executing T.O.I. than I do when I hit center ball. It's a fiddle player's type of stroke. At the same time, the more I progress with the center ball hit the more concentrated, slow, rhythmic, and concentrated I become. So maybe the reason pool players don't take to snooker is because snooker players have to become violinists with their center ball hit in order to reach the highest level of skill and pool players are unable to become violinists with their center ball hit because - well- they're fiddle players....just a theory.
 
His Boy Elroy said:
When I shoot in my basement I use both practice both T.O.I and center ball. I've come to the conclusion that T.O.I. Is the superior method but I still love the challenge of improving my center ball hit. Also I don't really enjoy watching pool matches on TV or the Internetui but I love watching snooker on You Tube and if I could get over my bashfulness, I might just visit a pool room in Chicago about five miles away that has a 12 foot snooker table. So I have a littlle theory on why perfection in the center ball hit is unattainable for pro pool players, why few of them have success in snooker, and why all of them, as C.J says, forego the center all hit and are "doing something with the ball".....A fiddle and a violin are the exact same instrument. When a fiddle player plays the instrument they call it a fiddle. When a violinist plays the same instrument they call it a violin. A fiddle player is an entertainer. A violinist is an artist. The world needs both entertainers and artists and one isn't any more noble than the other. A pool player is an entertainer. A snooker player is an artist. A pool player has the same type of personality and mindset as a juggler or a plate spinner. Many of Willie Mosconi's extended family members were vaudeville performers. Those types of personalities are the same types of personalities that are attracted to pool. So I'm reaching a point in my center ball hit where I'm beginning to feel like an artist at it, or a violinist, or a snooker player. At the same time I lack many of the traits of the fiddle player which are so vital to success in pool games. I do, however, at least possess a fiddle player's trait that allows me to execute the T.O.I. Executing T.O.I is just darn fun. Heck; I'm entertaining myself when I do it. I shoot much faster and looser when executing T.O.I. than I do when I hit center ball. It's a fiddle player's type of stroke. At the same time, the more I progress with the center ball hit the more concentrated, slow, rhythmic, and concentrated I become. So maybe the reason pool players don't take to snooker is because snooker players have to become violinists with their center ball hit in order to reach the highest level of skill and pool players are unable to become violinists with their center ball hit because - well- they're fiddle players....just a theory.
Click to expand...

Wow... that's pretty deep...

I like it..!!!
 
The boy said "my name's Elroy, and you're Charlie Daniels....wanna play some"???

His Boy Elroy said:
When I shoot in my basement I use both practice both T.O.I and center ball. I've come to the conclusion that T.O.I. Is the superior method but I still love the challenge of improving my center ball hit.

Also I don't really enjoy watching pool matches on TV or the Internetui but I love watching snooker on You Tube and if I could get over my bashfulness, I might just visit a pool room in Chicago about five miles away that has a 12 foot snooker table.

So I have a little theory on why perfection in the center ball hit is unattainable for pro pool players, why few of them have success in snooker, and why all of them, as C.J says, forego the center all hit and are "doing something with the ball".....A fiddle and a violin are the exact same instrument.

When a fiddle player plays the instrument they call it a fiddle. When a violinist plays the same instrument they call it a violin. A fiddle player is an entertainer. A violinist is an artist. The world needs both entertainers and artists and one isn't any more noble than the other.

A pool player is an entertainer. A snooker player is an artist. A pool player has the same type of personality and mindset as a juggler or a plate spinner. Many of Willie Mosconi's extended family members were vaudeville performers. Those types of personalities are the same types of personalities that are attracted to pool.

So I'm reaching a point in my center ball hit where I'm beginning to feel like an artist at it, or a violinist, or a snooker player. At the same time I lack many of the traits of the fiddle player which are so vital to success in pool games. I do, however, at least possess a fiddle player's trait that allows me to execute the T.O.I.

Executing T.O.I is just darn fun. Heck; I'm entertaining myself when I do it. I shoot much faster and looser when executing T.O.I. than I do when I hit center ball. It's a fiddle player's type of stroke. At the same time, the more I progress with the center ball hit the more concentrated, slow, rhythmic, and concentrated I become.

So maybe the reason pool players don't take to snooker is because snooker players have to become violinists with their center ball hit in order to reach the highest level of skill and pool players are unable to become violinists with their center ball hit because - well- they're fiddle players....just a theory.
Click to expand...


I guess you didn't know it
But I'm a violin player too
And if you'd care to take a dare I'll make a bet with you

Now you play a pretty good violin, boy
But give the TOI it's due
I'll bet a violin of gold
Against your soul
'Cause I think I'm better than you

The boy said my name's Elroy
And it might be a sin
But I'll take your bet
And you're gonna regret
'Cause I'm the best there's ever been

 
Hitting with a TOI is easier than hitting dead center. I can usually shoot the cue ball up and down the table and have it come back to my tip 10 out of 10 times. If I did it 100 times, I may be off less than 10%. I still think it's less work to hit a bit off center.

I carry over this same line of thinking when I use outside cueing. I know where to aim on the pocket. Using center ball, I can accidently hit with some left or right spin. Big difference when I go to a rail and I get spin that I didn't want. Hitting only left or only right spin is more controllable. I know that I'll either get my applied spin or possibly none. But I won't get the opposite/wrong spin.

It's also easier to see a small amount of off center tip placement than an absolute center ball hit. I've used a mark/logo on the cue ball to determine center and found it tougher to line up on. When I cue at center, I have to slightly move over to the left or to the right as I estimate the middle of the cue ball.

It's a lot less work to come down on the cue ball with the edge of my tip in the vicinity of center and know the slack will be taken up by where I aim on the pocket. Keeping a consistent stroke speed to facilitate squirt/deflection is a plus I realized that also picked up my game.

Even if you're a purist know it all and think that a TOI is a fad, you should have it as a tool in your game. Unless, of course, you're giving CJ the 6 and out. :D

Best,
Mike
 
CJ Wiley said:
I guess you didn't know it
But I'm a violin player too
And if you'd care to take a dare I'll make a bet with you

Now you play a pretty good violin, boy
But give the TOI it's due
I'll bet a violin of gold
Against your soul
'Cause I think I'm better than you

The boy said my name's Elroy
And it might be a sin
But I'll take your bet
And you're gonna regret
'Cause I'm the best there's ever been
Click to expand...

I saw Charlie Daniels before he was well known. I went to see REO Speedwagon and three other bands in Chicago. The first one, Locomotive GT got booed off of the stage with a flurry of beer bottles.

REO was next and played their big hits. Great concert! Then, everybody left. My friends and I walked up and leaned on center stage to hear the next two unknown groups. I had their albums, so we were really there to see them, too.

Charlie Daniels came out first followed by Lynyrd Skynyrd. Free Bird up close was amazing! The lead singer, Ronnie Van Zant came out in frayed white bell bottoms and sang in his bare feet. :cool:

Best,
Mike
 
Mikjary said:
Hitting with a TOI is easier than hitting dead center. I can usually shoot the cue ball up and down the table and have it come back to my tip 10 out of 10 times. If I did it 100 times, I may be off less than 10%. I still think it's less work to hit a bit off center.

I carry over this same line of thinking when I use outside cueing. I know where to aim on the pocket. Using center ball, I can accidently hit with some left or right spin. Big difference when I go to a rail and I get spin that I didn't want. Hitting only left or only right spin is more controllable. I know that I'll either get my applied spin or possibly none. But I won't get the opposite/wrong spin.

It's also easier to see a small amount of off center tip placement than an absolute center ball hit. I've used a mark/logo on the cue ball to determine center and found it tougher to line up on. When I cue at center, I have to slightly move over to the left or to the right as I estimate the middle of the cue ball.

It's a lot less work to come down on the cue ball with the edge of my tip in the vicinity of center and know the slack will be taken up by where I aim on the pocket. Keeping a consistent stroke speed to facilitate squirt/deflection is a plus I realized that also picked up my game.

Even if you're a purist know it all and think that a TOI is a fad, you should have it as a tool in your game. Unless, of course, you're giving CJ the 6 and out. :D

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

Very well stated Mike.

I went to using outside & inside english when I was 13. I wish I would have met TOI a long time ago.

Best back at Y'a,
Rick
 
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