My view on how low Pro payouts are..

John, I gotta admit. Your profession looks like a lot more fun than mine.
I have the college degree, family etc.. with no regrets. But I certainly admire what you get to do for a living. Keep enjoying the one and only life that we get on earth. Joe...(would not mind playing pool for a living, only problem I have is hitting em straight:(
Peace, JBK
 
john schmidt said:
pool is tough to make a living yes.but alot of people i know are broke and hate their life and they are way more educated than me and have good jobs.anyway my point is russ chewning seems to like to belittle pro players. my dad puts things in perspective for me he says ,i would rather make 20 thousand a year playing pool ,traveling around the world ,being on tv,being famous in your craft ,being your own boss,being on mags,having people admire you ,some being hot girls lol,playing golf 3 times a week ,than making 60 thousand a year like he does.in a nut shell russ im not going to knock you for what you do ,and you should quit knocking poolplayers .for the record some of the perks i pointed out about playing pool for a living were directed at russ to make him jeolous,problem is with just about every post he makes ,he makes it plain to see that he already is. you know money is great i wish i had more ,but at the end of your life can you say you enjoyed it.if you can thats about all you can ask for. p. s. hey russ next time your on your soapbox talking like your better than everybody else just remember just about anyone can do your job , but mine ,well you get the idea lol
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In the big picture life is very short, and there is certainly some truth to the idea of enjoying your life while you're here. In short, living your life with no regrets. John seems to be doing just that and I for one applaud him for it. We all have choices to make in life, and who knows what choices are right and wrong in the end. Every career/life path is going to have some ups and some downs. The important thing is John seems to be ENJOYING life, isn't that what it's really about in the end?
 
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John, rest assured that Russ is not a know it all. He is just trapped in his conventional life. In order to feel good about his choice it requires him rationalize his plight in life. He loves the game of pool but the pool fairy didn't sprinkle the fairy dust on him. He is not world class. Yes, he played some 2 dollar nineball with world class players and seeing the skill gap that existed between his game and theirs, he was smart enough to realize he needed to get real about his future in the game. He made his choice and for him it maybe the correct one. Russ chose to work in a war zone, getting paid extra, and then he is going to settle into his nice little home poolroom and become a closet champion by drilling himself into a perfect human pool playing machine...nice dream Russ...go for it.
We all get one bite at the apple. We all make choices based on what we know. John has a dream and so does Russ. Who will lead a more fullfilling life? I guess the answer to that question will have to wait for their death beds dying words...
What I get from Russ thru his postings is that he fancies himself an intellectual of sorts. His fondness for moralizing to others about how they should conduct their lifes, according to Russ, stem from his never going ALL IN and in his heart of hearts he regrets this choice....all of the above is my humble opinion.
By the way John, your pool playing buddies are correct in saying top players should never post a word on these forums. It is a no win situation...good luck in your future.
 
i admire you too john,i just wish you guys were paid way more so that up and comers might make it a career instead of wasting their talent.but they dont because of the money.but on the other hand i would take 50g over 100g doing what your doing any day.
 
John, I think you have said it best. You can play pool when you want to or golf or whatever. You are your own boss and that itself is nice. Not to mention, you are about to open your own poolroom which im sure will be a class act like yourself. It is obvious that you have set goals for yourself and you seem to be accomplishing them. Therefore, that makes you a winner. You set out to meet your goals and you have. You havent just sat back and hoped they would come to you.

Southpaw
 
Southpaw said:
John, I think you have said it best. You can play pool when you want to or golf or whatever. You are your own boss and that itself is nice. Not to mention, you are about to open your own poolroom which im sure will be a class act like yourself. It is obvious that you have set goals for yourself and you seem to be accomplishing them. Therefore, that makes you a winner. You set out to meet your goals and you have. You havent just sat back and hoped they would come to you.

Southpaw
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very well said.........
 
The discussion shouldn't be focused on which life is "better." That's a fallacious argument. The important consideration is what one reasonably expects from a given career choice. Going the pro route is fine so long as you recognize the risk and reward tradeoff, especially with the low payouts of pro tournaments. It's also a career that requires extraordinary natural talent to be successful. I could practice 12 hours a day for the rest of my life and I'd never be as good as John is. I also value stable income over the ups and downs of the road, so I for one would be a fool to try to be a pro.
 
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO - what a ride!

Life is too short to be worried about how someone else lives theirs. Find what you love about your existence and build on it. If family and money makes your world go around have at it. If playing a game fills those voids then go for that. If you're lucky enough to have everything you've ever wanted then --- well then you can just kiss my a$$.
 
I don't think that just because someone goes pro that they have had to skip out on other priorities, they just had to follow their determination.

Russ Chewning said:
I just want you guys to shut up and play pool. Take what money you can win, and be happy with it. Quit whining that there is not enough money in the game. You picked your profession.
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You know, I always assumed the people whinning were not even the ones who are pro...figure that one out. :D
 
I have never read or (herd) for that matter of John complain or whine about anything. He is the US Open Champion.

Now playing on table 4 the 2006 US Open Champion John Schmidt. Pretty nice ring to it if you ask me.

Russ get out of Baghdad for a few weeks, sounds like you could use a vaction.
And thank you for your service to OUR country.
 
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Russ Chewning said:
First of all, let me clarify my feelings on sports in general.

It's basically a matter of the biggest, fastest, strongest, meanest ape gets the banana.

I feel it is a statement about society in general that sports figures get paid the astronomical amounts that they are, and they are held to be in high regard, yet probably 15% of the population knows off the top of their heads who Jonas Salk was. Or who Leeuwenhoek was. Both of these men have impacted humanity more than Michael Jordan could ever hope to.

Granted, these are historical figures who were not alive in today's economic climate. Doesn't matter. Scientists today are just not respected as in years past. And they don't get paid what they are worth.

Now, on to men's payouts. Get over it, "Pros". Very very very few of you would be pros if you didn't spend every waking moment as teens practicing, with no responsibilities. You made a choice, way back then. You chose a game over school. If you could have had both, then you should have made the effort to excel at both school and pool. If you could not commit the time to both school and pool because pool took too much practice time, then... well, I guess you made your choice.

No whining! Pool hasn't been a profitable profession for more than about 3 or 4 Americans at any time that anyone who is alive can remember. If you chose to forego the preparations of "real life" in order to practice for a game, well, take what the world is giving you. Or quit playing pool and get a real job.

There are probably about 10 American poolplayers who make enough money to support a family, what with health insurance costs and whatnot. Note I said that actually make enough to support that family, whether they actually have one or not.

Yet we see these same pros gambling 10K-20K at the DCC. And they are not always winning. Even our BEST players are still acting irresponsibly with the money they have been lucky enough to win.

Charlie Williams is one of the rare exceptions. I've heard he's already put a sizeable amount down on a house, and has actually used his success to invest, and now has side income coming in. In effect, he is now just as much a businessman as a player.

I have ZERO sympathy for the players out there who have not been able to make a living even though they are in the top 20. It's a GAME. I think ALL games should be played for the love of the game. Yes, Basketball, baseball, soccer, football, golf, pool, etc. If that were true, we wouldn't have all the high dollar production values, or we might not be able to see every NBA game the whole season.. Oh boo-hoo, that would be a shame.

And I have even LESS sympathy for the players who have had great success in the recent past and then go and ****ing blow the money gambling with another player. That is just incredibly stupid. Danny Diliberto once said about Alex Pagulayan that Alex likes to gamble, could have $20,000 one day and broke the next. But Danny made it seem like this was something to be ADMIRED? And guys like Danny D. are mentoring tommorrows's players? Dog help us all!

For the pros out there who have to make sacrifices to play the game, sorry, no sympathy. Pool would have still been there if you had waited 4 years to get your college degree. And then you'd have something to fall back on. You knew there was no money in pool. You made the decision to play because it was fun at that particular time, and you had no responsibility. Be happy promoters take the time to get together ANY major tournaments, and be happy if the winnings allow you to pay your trip fees. A lot of fans pay the same costs just to WATCH the tournaments, and have no way of making the money back. Of course, they are the ones who TRULY love the game.

Russ
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Johnny Archer has done well on the business side of things with his winnings also. He had some very good years on tour and listened to a successful business man that also was on tour with him and has done well. I am proud of him for that. Mizerak did really well in business, as did Nick Varner, Mike Sigel, Jim Rempe, Lorie Jon Jones, David Hunter, Joey Gold, Grady Mathews, Leonard Bludworth, David Howard, Larry Hubbart, Willie Mosconi, Minnesota Fats, Mike Gulyassy and CJ Wiley. There are many more Pro's who took their winnings and did something with them that made them successful in business and society. I do think more have wasted their money than not, but many have done well and I applaude them for that.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
Russ Chewning said:
First of all, let me clarify my feelings on sports in general.

It's basically a matter of the biggest, fastest, strongest, meanest ape gets the banana.

I feel it is a statement about society in general that sports figures get paid the astronomical amounts that they are, and they are held to be in high regard, yet probably 15% of the population knows off the top of their heads who Jonas Salk was. Or who Leeuwenhoek was. Both of these men have impacted humanity more than Michael Jordan could ever hope to.

Granted, these are historical figures who were not alive in today's economic climate. Doesn't matter. Scientists today are just not respected as in years past. And they don't get paid what they are worth.

Now, on to men's payouts. Get over it, "Pros". Very very very few of you would be pros if you didn't spend every waking moment as teens practicing, with no responsibilities. You made a choice, way back then. You chose a game over school. If you could have had both, then you should have made the effort to excel at both school and pool. If you could not commit the time to both school and pool because pool took too much practice time, then... well, I guess you made your choice.

No whining! Pool hasn't been a profitable profession for more than about 3 or 4 Americans at any time that anyone who is alive can remember. If you chose to forego the preparations of "real life" in order to practice for a game, well, take what the world is giving you. Or quit playing pool and get a real job.

There are probably about 10 American poolplayers who make enough money to support a family, what with health insurance costs and whatnot. Note I said that actually make enough to support that family, whether they actually have one or not.

Yet we see these same pros gambling 10K-20K at the DCC. And they are not always winning. Even our BEST players are still acting irresponsibly with the money they have been lucky enough to win.

Charlie Williams is one of the rare exceptions. I've heard he's already put a sizeable amount down on a house, and has actually used his success to invest, and now has side income coming in. In effect, he is now just as much a businessman as a player.

I have ZERO sympathy for the players out there who have not been able to make a living even though they are in the top 20. It's a GAME. I think ALL games should be played for the love of the game. Yes, Basketball, baseball, soccer, football, golf, pool, etc. If that were true, we wouldn't have all the high dollar production values, or we might not be able to see every NBA game the whole season.. Oh boo-hoo, that would be a shame.

And I have even LESS sympathy for the players who have had great success in the recent past and then go and ****ing blow the money gambling with another player. That is just incredibly stupid. Danny Diliberto once said about Alex Pagulayan that Alex likes to gamble, could have $20,000 one day and broke the next. But Danny made it seem like this was something to be ADMIRED? And guys like Danny D. are mentoring tommorrows's players? Dog help us all!

For the pros out there who have to make sacrifices to play the game, sorry, no sympathy. Pool would have still been there if you had waited 4 years to get your college degree. And then you'd have something to fall back on. You knew there was no money in pool. You made the decision to play because it was fun at that particular time, and you had no responsibility. Be happy promoters take the time to get together ANY major tournaments, and be happy if the winnings allow you to pay your trip fees. A lot of fans pay the same costs just to WATCH the tournaments, and have no way of making the money back. Of course, they are the ones who TRULY love the game.

Russ
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I understand where you're coming from Russ, but I think you crossed the line a little.

A long time ago, when I was a teenager, a business college student told me "you can either be a 9-5 er, or someone who caters to the 9-5 ers. Like an entertainer, artist or hot dog salesman. He said, "I want to be a hotdog salesman in Lincoln park in Chicago and work 5 hours a day selling $5 hotdogs to 9-5 ers. I'll make more money than them and work less, I'll be my own boss and enjoy life."

Each to his own dream, but the point is, there are the 9-5 ers and the ones who aren't. I gave up the 9-5 lifestyle about 4 years ago. I have a Master's Degree in Resource Economics and an undergraduate degree in Computer Science. Pool was a main source of income for several years, a part time job for several, and now I only play for fun (for the most part).

BUT, I haven't had a job in three years and I love it. I own three companies, all in various stages of success, I do what I love, work probably 15-20 hours most days, but it doesn't seem like work because It's what I would do even if I wasn't getting paid at the end.

I might go back to the 9-5 lifestlye at some point, if it makes sense and I feel like it, but there are 200 million people (or so) of working age in our country, and 200 million different ways they make money to survive.

If someone chooses the tradeoff of pool vs. material wealth and hasn't found a way to make it work yet, I don't worry too much about it because I know they either will figure out how to make it work, or they won't, either way doesn't affect me much.

Almost every good player that I know has found a way to make a living without stealing, without starving and without giving up pool. Some examples that come to mind from AZB are:
Jay Helfert, Grady, Scott Lee, Mike Janis, Freddy the Beard, etc... you see the point.

Even though the prize money isn't there, most pool players find a way to use their people skills and contacts they have developed playing pool to open a room, work in a room, give lessons, find a different job, work part-time, etc...

They are willing to make the tradeoff in exchange for the excitement and freedom they enjoy as a pool player and I, for one, am willing to let them enjoy it in peace.

Cheers,
RC
 
i never count other peoples $$$$, when i wasnt making the $$$ i wanted i changed gig's until I found the amount of $$$ i wanted to make then I dumped it into propertys and now i'm set, its simple as that, what one does to make $$$ is their own business. i shared my story to illusturate a point, if you dont like it leave it until you find what your looking for most people dont have the nuts to do that, college is for suckers all they teach you there is how to be a good employee, i hire college grads all the time and pay them just enought to make them comfortable and scared to lose their jobs, not enough to get to the finish line on, i keep that $$$$. ;)
 
Russ Chewning said:
Not at all. I just want you guys to shut up and play pool. Take what money you can win, and be happy with it. Quit whining that there is not enough money in the game. You picked your profession. If you want to organize a tour that rewards professional players with a living, then do it. Don't act like it's someone else's responsibility to bring money to pool. You know, if you like pool AND want to make money, you COULD always take up teaching. Scott Lee makes far more than you're likely to average in your career. He posts on here if you want to discuss a career change from professional loafer to travelling instructor. Just be warned.. Some players will want to learn how to play better on (gasp!:eek: ) "Those ego building, non skill requiring pieces of **** you call bar tables."




That's your Dad. I am going to be encouraging my son to pick a career that makes a difference. Funny thing is, all those careers seem to make a lot of money. Funny how that works.. And, actually, it's about 244 thousand a year right now, thanks. About the time your game is running down and you start getting desperate looking for a way to support the family you will have at 40, I will be retiring. The overwhelming majority of older professional poolplayers in their interviews have said how they discourage youth from taking up the game. What do they say? "Go to school." Once in a great while, one of the players listens. And again, don't act like you couldn't have chosen school AND pool. Dan Louie was a better all around player than you, won a World Championship, had a college degree, and a successful business for a long time.





Haw haw haw... I'm jeolous, err.. jealous, eh? Heh heh.. The only thing I am jealous of is that you had the chance to practice enough to see how far you could take your game. I won't debate that. But I also think you are paying a huge price for that chance. As far as the "perks".. Obviously you did not fully read my original message. I think people should compete for the pleasure of competition. If they happen to make a little money, that's great. I am strongly against massive compensation for playing any type of game at all. And the women that are attracted to a poolplayer just because he's a poolplayer? Good luck with them, man. I'll take the cute little computer nerd/pre med chickie over a pool groupie anyday. And another perk you mentioned? Travelling around the world? Heh heh.. I am ex military, man. I guarantee you I've been to more countries than you have.



Yup, especially since I am soon renovating my garage into a billiard room, so I'll be getting to play as much as I want anyways, with the additional "perks" of not wondering where next month's rent is coming from. Oh wait.. That's right.. I don't rent. I OWN my house.



Nope, sorry, I don't. If I decided to totally ignore what I wanted to accomplish in life, (early retirement, putting kids through college, etc) I have no doubt I could win a major event and numerous regional events. I just happen to have been aware at a young age that I would want kids someday, and I would want to be prepared to put them through college.

And to address your other point, you're right.. SOME other people could do my job. Except those that have criminal records. And those that don't both have a very high technical aptitude AND good writing skills. (hint hint) And if they can, they are welcome to apply for the job and retire very young along with me. That way, we can enjoy being "bangers" at 40, while you are doing.. Whatever it is 40 year old players are doing to make the rent money.

Have a nice day!

Russ
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Russ, you sound like the type of person who is going to have a ton of money lying around while retired, realized that you are not happy because your money and ego attract people who like you for your money and ego, and probably wind up killing yourself. I really hope that doesn't happen to you. At the same time, if it did ever happen to you, all the people that you let close to you would turn into complete animals to possess everything you had in your miserable life.

Money doesn't buy happiness, and never criticize someone's life path unless you were once in their shoes, under the exact same circumstances.

The majority of the pros started playing when very young. They had an extreme passion for the game by the time they were in their teens. They held onto that passion in their early 20's. After they found out how tough the life of a pro can be, the only thing that kept them going was PASSION.

John Schmidt is completely right. Russ, you really are an asshole.
 
Russ Chewning said:
First of all, let me clarify my feelings on sports in general.

<big snip>


, and be happy if the winnings allow you to pay your trip fees. A lot of fans pay the same costs just to WATCH the tournaments, and have no way of making the money back. Of course, they are the ones who TRULY love the game.

Russ
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Sorry Russ, but it sounds like you just have sour grapes that you don't have the talent to make a living playing pool.

It seems to me, that the only reason someone would want to try and make a living playing the game is because they love it. This is as it should be.
 
Russ, in your initial post, you said that playing pool for a career is a personal choice. That is correct. To go on and be judgemental is in my opinion, wrong.

Really, who are you to pass judgement on someone who makes less money than you? Forget for one minute that it is pool we are talking about.

What about the people who are working for fast food companies or the walmarts of the world? Are you saying they made bad decisioans are are bad people because of it. Or are you saying they are just less than you? Are you trying to prove that yo uare better than everyone else here? Cause your not, you know?

I have been blessed in my life with being born poor, to becoming very wealthy, in a very short time. All of it self made. Truth is, I could have easily not be where I am in life today, and still be the same person.

Difference is, though, that I love pool enough to help it, best I can.

You should try to climb down off your soapbox Russ. Fact is, you are really not making that much money. I pay more in taxes per year.

rg

BTW, John, you are a good person in my book. In the end, thats how we are all judged. All the other stuff, well, its all just window dressing
 
Man Russ I don't even understand who you would make a post like this. Did some unknown fella over there in Iraq kick the crap out of you on the pool table or something? Makes no sense to drop a bomb like this on the forum ripping into people that CAN do what you only wish you could. The pros surely know they don't earn as much as they would like to but they are doing it because they can and because they want to.
 
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