Natural Talent?

fasted71465

fasted71465

Fast Ed
Silver Member
What makes a pool players natural talent? Is it just better hand eye coordination? I see people that have a natural ability to make balls. I do not have this and I envy people that do. I have seen a few people that could run out often after only playing for 9 months. Why couldn't I have this. To me, no amount of practice can over come natural abilities. Am I wrong to think this way?
 
Positive thoughts and no mental doubt go a long way in helping create that natural ability IMHO.
 
I think it depends on the practice.

Like Diliberto says - if you dont know what you didnt not know, then you wouldnt not know it. Or something like that lol.
 
Very difficult question to answer.

The nature of talent is dependent on the activity. Boxers with longer arms tend to have an advantage, taller basketball players have a higher chance of making the NBA and Swimmers apparently have similar bone structure in the pelvic area (read the Sports Gene for more info).

Pool is largely a hand eye coordination game mixed with problem solving. Some people will develop muscle memory quicker and perform better than others. Researchers identified something called the BDNF gene (don't ask me too much about it), and there are two version which influence ones ability to develop new motor memory. This doesn't necessarily limit your potential, but it is possible with slower development one just does not have enough time catch up to high performers. Or it could simply mean that one would need more rigorous and deliberate training. I don't really know.

I also think personality plays a significant role. Someone who is able to relax, learn and play will be at an advantage over someone who gets stressed and tense easily. A prospective player also requires a certain level of dedication and sticktoitiveness that is required practice to consistently over long periods of time.

Finally, the environment is paramount. Living or being able to move to a location with high performers, excellent facilities, and good coaching/mentors, puts a prospective player at a significant advantage over someone who only has access to a bar league, for example. I also feel that a culture of improvement is necessary, where many of the participants feel they can reach high performance and actively work towards achieving this goal. This kind of positive thinking and outlook can really impact your learning, especially if those around are also seeing success.

To answer your question directly, I wouldn't worry about what other people are doing or how fast they learn. You can only learn in your own way, and make sure to stay positive. If you feel you are not improving, identify what your issues are, compartmentalize the problem and then work from there. It's much easier to practice technique when you break it down into little steps and motions.
 
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After playing this game and watching 100s of others for 55 years I believe some have natural ability to play.
I've seen guys that have played for just a couple years run a 100 balls and multiple racks of 9 ball from time to time.
I've seen guys that have played for decades that struggle to run a rack of 14.1 or 9 ball.
You see it in other games and sports.
What separates John Elway,Peyton Manning,Joe Montana and Tom Brady from most of the quarterbacks in history?
Natural ability.
 
Natural players see things clearly without thought and with a learned experience can execute at a higher lever. What makes them great players is playing and then more playing and so on and so on..:smile:

I think to be exceptional at something it must come natural to you in some way...
 
fasted71465 said:
What makes a pool players natural talent? Is it just better hand eye coordination? I see people that have a natural ability to make balls. I do not have this and I envy people that do. I have seen a few people that could run out often after only playing for 9 months. Why couldn't I have this. To me, no amount of practice can over come natural abilities. Am I wrong to think this way?
Click to expand...

I have an observation that seems to be true in many cases, I guess it's a solid theory vs a "law" or pool.

The good players that play good naturally are almost always in the blue collar, not much schooling group that can shoot at an A or higher level.

The B players that struggle and practice a lot are for the most part more educated with higher chance of college and having high tech jobs like in IT. It maybe just my area, but I posted this before and there were many others that noticed the same thing.

The ones that are B players, and even C players, I know play several times a week, have all sorts of fancy bags and cues, but stay at the C and B level. Quite a few A and Open players I see, crush them with half the time spent at the table and without studying the game as much (say with books or videos).

Yes I'd agree, at some point, if you are just clumsy (I guess that is as good a way to put it as anything) you will hit a wall in ability, or at least will find that you need to work 4 hours a day to get better.

I think a major factor in advancement is if you can see the true aiming point and learning from the first time you play to aim and shoot with a straight stroke at it. From spending years trying to fix my shotmaking ability and seeing others mess up shots, I think that is the first and most important thing you need to learn, aim to the true aiming line not what you think it is, and hit the cueball where you want correctly. If you don't do that and adjust for your aiming issues (say by lining up crooked then adjusting or moving your head a bit to the wrong side so your brain thinks it's aiming right but you are not), you will progress to a point then stop. A good player will miss easy shots with the wrong stance/aiming line learned 20 years ago and a new player will take a lot longer to advance if they don't have that true sight and ability to deliver the cue in the correct line.
 
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fasted71465 said:
What makes a pool players natural talent? Is it just better hand eye coordination? I see people that have a natural ability to make balls. I do not have this and I envy people that do. I have seen a few people that could run out often after only playing for 9 months. Why couldn't I have this. To me, no amount of practice can over come natural abilities. Am I wrong to think this way?
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See the following resource page, which covers this topic fairly well:

what it takes to play like a pro (and "nature" vs. "nurture")

You might also be interested in related topic here:

general pool advice resource page

Good luck with your game,
Dave
 
Behavioral scientists look at it two ways. Nature, or nurture. I believe that both those things make up the exceptional pool player.
A young man, or woman, is given the gifts at birth (Nature), and the experiences of life (nurture) give him, or her, the road to the top.
As for me? I was born good-looking. :)
 
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How many would say SVB was a natural talent? I'm guessing most will say natural talent. Guy worked really hard for years, even after winning a US Open.

From his interview http://www.azbilliards.com/news/stories/12436-interview-with-svb/

Q: What it takes to grow into a player kind of you are now?

A: A lot of hard work, practice 8, 9, maybe 10 hours a day, dedication. It's all about the process of preparing to the tournament, taking care of yourself, going to gym. That's a lot of work involved.
Click to expand...

I've seen Jay Helfert post about Dennis Orcullo staying at his house and practicing non-stop.

Look into fixed vs growth mindsets and the effect it has on people.
 
measureman said:
After playing this game and watching 100s of others for 55 years I believe some have natural ability to play.
I've seen guys that have played for just a couple years run a 100 balls and multiple racks of 9 ball from time to time.
I've seen guys that have played for decades that struggle to run a rack of 14.1 or 9 ball.
You see it in other games and sports.
What separates John Elway,Peyton Manning,Joe Montana and Tom Brady from most of the quarterbacks in history?
Natural ability.
Click to expand...

You promised that you wouldn't tell:o
 
I wonder if it's a spatial ability - to see the geometry of the aiming point and the angles - that is the primary natural ability that you're talking about.
 
While many many other things can be debated in regards to this, I do think no one will debate that some " just pick up " on pool and advance rapidly to varying degrees while others need much time / practice to achieve the same or lesser level . I think this would be considered " natural " talent.
 
fasted71465 said:
What makes a pool players natural talent? Is it just better hand eye coordination? I see people that have a natural ability to make balls. I do not have this and I envy people that do. I have seen a few people that could run out often after only playing for 9 months. Why couldn't I have this. To me, no amount of practice can over come natural abilities. Am I wrong to think this way?
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I love questions like this!
I think a pool player's natural talent stems from two attributes:

Hand-eye coordination (the spectrum is wide)
Dan Diliberto and Keith McCready had probably the best eye-hand coordination I have ever seen.

"Seeing the shot alignment" as perfectly as possible. (it's either perfect of it's not)
Today, Jason Shaw probably sees his shots as perfectly as one can.
How can a player miss when this is the case?

Both Earl and Neils Feijen both see the alignment pretty perfectly as well.
Hell, one eye is nearly blind. The eye they DO use has little to no input from
the other eye to "fuzz up" the picture.

Can you imagine if we all saw the shots like JS, ES, and/or NF did?
We'd all play much better--not necessarily like champions but better.
Can you imagine if we all hand the hand-eye coordination like DD and/or KM?
We'd all play much better--not necessarily like champions but better.

So there you go, natural talent in a nutshell for pool.
Beyond this, there are no "secrets" to pool.

You can't teach hand-eye coordination.
You might be able to teach perfect sight alignment--maybe not.
The second factor ultimately has to be found by the shooter.

You'd be surprised how many great players are not perfectly sighting their shots.
Their eye(s) have merely adjusted for or compensated for what "looks right."
After a lot of practice of this "imperfection" the player eventually learns how to shoot
shots and be quite good at it, obviously.

But those who actually find a perfect sighting, as JS above, will rise head and shoulders above the rest, all else being equal that is.
 
natural talent

The myth of natural talent is the biggest obstacle to players reaching their best. It gives an out, an excuse, a "I just wasn't given that winning hand", that allows them to quit striving and accept limitations.

Now- clearly there are some requisites to play pool. A blind man can't play pool. A one year old can't play pool. Etc.

But once you get past those few basic requirements, that of holding a cue, seeing the balls on the table, and reaching the table...almost all the rest is what you do with it.

To be sure, there are some players that seem to pick it up quickly and effortlessly. But that doesn't mean they will have an easier road to the top, or that they will get as far. Some will get good quickly, then get frustrated quickly when their easy growth curve tapers off. Others won't have the grit and mental toughness that comes from overcoming as much adversity. Others won't want it as much as some of the players that PROVED how much they want it by making up for a 'lack of talent' with hard work.

I truly believe that it's possible for anyone to achieve the highest levels, if they have the DESIRE, and are willing to make the sacrifices to put in the hard work and make this their only goal in life.

Ralph Soquet and Nick Varner are two players that come to mind that didn't seem to be given the gifts of an overpowering game. They don't rocket balls in effortlessly like Shaw or Strickland. They don't seem to work magic like Efren. But they have made up for it by developing their mental game to where they have legendary outlooks and attitudes. They never show weakness, complain, talk, get distracted, none of that. They KNOW they aren't as gifted physically as some other players, but they don't care, because they also know they can make up for that and be not only competitive but dominant at times by simply bringing more than the rest.

And here's the thing- even if I'm wrong, you'll get a lot further in your own personal play if you believe it's all on you, and not on external gifts. The idea of natural talent doesn't help your own belief, doesn't inspire you to strive for the top. It is a limiting belief.

My personal goal is to be the best player I can be within the limits of the resources I can put in with a family and a job. I was no natural talent, in fact I feel I had the opposite- a lack of talent. But I've worked really hard, harder than the people that think they work hard. And I've put together a good game. I'm going to keep striving, and when I'm 90 God willing I'll look back at my life and know that I found out exactly how good I could get ON THE TABLE, and not in my head. I'll never wonder how good I could've gotten if I hadn't limited myself with my beliefs. To me that is the most important thing.
 
There is a natural range of abilities in everything. Some people get the short end of the stick. That's life!
 
Tin Man said:
The myth of natural talent is the biggest obstacle to players reaching their best. It gives an out, an excuse, a "I just wasn't given that winning hand", that allows them to quit striving and accept limitations.

Now- clearly there are some requisites to play pool. A blind man can't play pool. A one year old can't play pool. Etc.

But once you get past those few basic requirements, that of holding a cue, seeing the balls on the table, and reaching the table...almost all the rest is what you do with it.

To be sure, there are some players that seem to pick it up quickly and effortlessly. But that doesn't mean they will have an easier road to the top, or that they will get as far. Some will get good quickly, then get frustrated quickly when their easy growth curve tapers off. Others won't have the grit and mental toughness that comes from overcoming as much adversity. Others won't want it as much as some of the players that PROVED how much they want it by making up for a 'lack of talent' with hard work.

I truly believe that it's possible for anyone to achieve the highest levels, if they have the DESIRE, and are willing to make the sacrifices to put in the hard work and make this their only goal in life.

Ralph Soquet and Nick Varner are two players that come to mind that didn't seem to be given the gifts of an overpowering game. They don't rocket balls in effortlessly like Shaw or Strickland. They don't seem to work magic like Efren. But they have made up for it by developing their mental game to where they have legendary outlooks and attitudes. They never show weakness, complain, talk, get distracted, none of that. They KNOW they aren't as gifted physically as some other players, but they don't care, because they also know they can make up for that and be not only competitive but dominant at times by simply bringing more than the rest.

And here's the thing- even if I'm wrong, you'll get a lot further in your own personal play if you believe it's all on you, and not on external gifts. The idea of natural talent doesn't help your own belief, doesn't inspire you to strive for the top. It is a limiting belief.

My personal goal is to be the best player I can be within the limits of the resources I can put in with a family and a job. I was no natural talent, in fact I feel I had the opposite- a lack of talent. But I've worked really hard, harder than the people that think they work hard. And I've put together a good game. I'm going to keep striving, and when I'm 90 God willing I'll look back at my life and know that I found out exactly how good I could get ON THE TABLE, and not in my head. I'll never wonder how good I could've gotten if I hadn't limited myself with my beliefs. To me that is the most important thing.
Click to expand...
THIS


I've seen guys come up super fast and never make that last jump,and I've seen guys you never thought would be good become very solid players after grinding it out for years.
 
fasted71465 said:
What makes a pool players natural talent? Is it just better hand eye coordination? I see people that have a natural ability to make balls. I do not have this and I envy people that do. I have seen a few people that could run out often after only playing for 9 months. Why couldn't I have this. To me, no amount of practice can over come natural abilities. Am I wrong to think this way?
Click to expand...

U.S. Open 9 Ball Champion John Schmidt say natural ability is where it's at.
He's got plenty so he should know a little bit.

JoeyA
 
Before someone can say it takes natural talent to be a pro level player we would have to define what the skills are that make a top level player. Its easy to say hand/eye coordination and good eyesight, 2 things that early man needed if he wanted to survive in the dawn of man but what else makes an elite player?
I see different types of players like Rodney Morris/Jayson Shaw who make pool look very easy, to the point where they dont even look like they have to try to pocket balls and get shape. Then you see others who look like they have worked very hard to get to their level like SVB/John Morra, they shoot just as well as anyone but something makes their routine at the table look more practiced. (SVB might not be the best example to use but to me he looks different at the table compared to Shaw/Morris)
 
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