Naysayers slipping....

cheesemouse

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Naysayers Slipping...

...for all their expertise in picking apart the potential of the IPT why aren't those same nitpickers jumping on the new obvious target? The target is up. That target being the possiblity of a poolplayers union being formed to better organize the sport. A vehicle to protect the players from being scammed one more time. Where is that skill for venomous vitriolic verbage? (I love alliteration)...come on guys/gals let us get the ball rolling...

there is no chance in hell that you can herd the 'cats of pool' into an organized union. The image that comes to mind is: http://www.easycall.net/fun/herding-cats.shtml

Now that the cats are corralled try and collect the monthy dues.......Hey, this is fun being a naysayer....:)

Disclaimer: not responsible for above message as I was overtaken by a witches brew...
 

Southpaw

Swing away, Meril....
Silver Member
cheesemouse said:
Naysayers Slipping...

...for all their expertise in picking apart the potential of the IPT why aren't those same nitpickers jumping on the new obvious target? The target is up. That target being the possiblity of a poolplayers union being formed to better organize the sport. A vehicle to protect the players from being scammed one more time. Where is that skill for venomous vitriolic verbage? (I love alliteration)...come on guys/gals let us get the ball rolling...

there is no chance in hell that you can herd the 'cats of pool' into an organized union. The image that comes to mind is: http://www.easycall.net/fun/herding-cats.shtml

Now that the cats are corralled try and collect the monthy dues.......Hey, this is fun being a naysayer....:)

Disclaimer: not responsible for above message as I was overtaken by a witches brew...

Yeah...the IPT really showed all the doubters. They were way off base thinking that wouldnt survive!

Southpaw
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
cheesemouse said:
Naysayers Slipping...

...for all their expertise in picking apart the potential of the IPT why aren't those same nitpickers jumping on the new obvious target? The target is up. That target being the possiblity of a poolplayers union being formed to better organize the sport. A vehicle to protect the players from being scammed one more time. Where is that skill for venomous vitriolic verbage? (I love alliteration)...come on guys/gals let us get the ball rolling...

there is no chance in hell that you can herd the 'cats of pool' into an organized union. The image that comes to mind is: http://www.easycall.net/fun/herding-cats.shtml

Now that the cats are corralled try and collect the monthy dues.......Hey, this is fun being a naysayer....:)

Disclaimer: not responsible for above message as I was overtaken by a witches brew...
Your right. It would be hard to collect. Maybe have a STRONG rule if your dues aren't up to date you need to pay them befere you can play in a tournament. Johnnyt
 

professorpool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cheesemouse said:
Naysayers Slipping...

...for all their expertise in picking apart the potential of the IPT why aren't those same nitpickers jumping on the new obvious target? The target is up. That target being the possiblity of a poolplayers union being formed to better organize the sport. A vehicle to protect the players from being scammed one more time. Where is that skill for venomous vitriolic verbage? (I love alliteration)...come on guys/gals let us get the ball rolling...

there is no chance in hell that you can herd the 'cats of pool' into an organized union. The image that comes to mind is: http://www.easycall.net/fun/herding-cats.shtml

Now that the cats are corralled try and collect the monthy dues.......Hey, this is fun being a naysayer....:)

Disclaimer: not responsible for above message as I was overtaken by a witches brew...

Surely it is the job of the governing body of your country to police pool tournaments - under the auspice of the World Pool Association?

If you choose to enter non sanctioned events, is that not an individuals lookout?
 

cheesemouse

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Southpaw said:
Yeah...the IPT really showed all the doubters. They were way off base thinking that wouldnt survive!

Southpaw

Southpaw,

I'm giving you your dues; you guys busted the IPT before they screwed-up. I'm encouraging you to use this bloodhound like skill to sniff out a solution for the successful formation of a 'players union'.....this is your chance to leave the dark side and come over to the hopeful side.....I know
the naysayer's can switch sides and help get these poolplayers organized. Be devil's advacates for the players union. Sniff out the pitfalls, look into your crystal balls and get this job done....see what it is like to be in the white hats....YOU CAN DO IT!!!
 

cheesemouse

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
professorpool said:
Surely it is the job of the governing body of your country to police pool tournaments Surely you jest...- under the auspice of the World Pool Association?

If you choose to enter non sanctioned events, is that not an individuals lookout?

...meeting the minimum...:)
 

Southpaw

Swing away, Meril....
Silver Member
cheesemouse said:
Southpaw,

I'm giving you your dues; you guys busted the IPT before they screwed-up. I'm encouraging you to use this bloodhound like skill to sniff out a solution for the successful formation of a 'players union'.....this is your chance to leave the dark side and come over to the hopeful side.....I know
the naysayer's can switch sides and help get these poolplayers organized. Be devil's advacates for the players union. Sniff out the pitfalls, look into your crystal balls and get this job done....see what it is like to be in the white hats....YOU CAN DO IT!!!

I do believe that there should be some kind of union to protect the players, but I am also sad to say that if it is made of the players themselves....it will only be a problem. The Camel Tour and even the UPA have proven this in the past. When you start a tour, you should have a person or persons that are the ones in charge to make the rules. This has not worked well in the past if it was made up of the players themselves. For instance, at one UPA event, the players voted to use the break box the day before the tourney began. Now ofcourse this benefits the players with the stronger breaks more. Well some of the other players didnt like this because it was a change in the format that they had used all season. So, you had players walking out because of this. Then when it was changed back to the original format, you still had players upset because they didnt think any 1 player is larger than the game. I think Scott Smith would be the ideal person to represent the players if such a "union" was formed. JMO.

Southpaw
 

macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cheesemouse said:
Naysayers Slipping...

...for all their expertise in picking apart the potential of the IPT why aren't those same nitpickers jumping on the new obvious target? The target is up. That target being the possiblity of a poolplayers union being formed to better organize the sport. A vehicle to protect the players from being scammed one more time. Where is that skill for venomous vitriolic verbage? (I love alliteration)...come on guys/gals let us get the ball rolling...

there is no chance in hell that you can herd the 'cats of pool' into an organized union. The image that comes to mind is: http://www.easycall.net/fun/herding-cats.shtml

Now that the cats are corralled try and collect the monthy dues.......Hey, this is fun being a naysayer....:)

Disclaimer: not responsible for above message as I was overtaken by a witches brew...


It would probably benefit the promoters as much the players. Promoters have far more problems with players then the other way around. You hear about the occasional promoter who doesn't pay but you never hear about the thousands of times players disrupt tournaments with their actions. Make commitments to play and they never show up. Forfeit matches for no real reason leaving the promoter hanging.

Are fronted entry fees and even potently won prize money that never gets paid back when they go two and out. By and large all promoters from the smallest to the biggest act in good faith, they don't screw around anybody. It would be nice to have a players union who could not only watch out for the players interest but everybodies. I think a players union would be great.

The thing is, this would have not helped in the IPT deal since KT said at the very beginning it was his show and if the players didn't show up he would make "Joe Blow" world champion.
 
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Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
macguy said:
It would probably benefit the promoters as much the players. Promoters have far more problems with players then the other way around. You hear about the occasional promoter who doesn't pay but you never hear about the thousands of times players disrupt tournaments with their actions. Make commitments to play and they never show up. Forfeit matches for no real reason leaving the promoter hanging.

Are fronted entry fees and even potently won prize money that never gets paid back when they go two and out. By and large all promoters from the smallest to the biggest act in good faith, they don't screw around anybody. It would be nice to have a players union who could not only watch out for the players interest but everybodies. I think a players union would be great.

The thing is, this would have not helped in the IPT deal since KT said at the very beginning it was his show and if the players didn't show up he would make "Joe Blow" world champion.
I think he meant Mike Blow. Johnnyt
 

Blackjack

Illuminati Blacksmack
Silver Member
cheesemouse said:
Naysayers Slipping...

...for all their expertise in picking apart the potential of the IPT why aren't those same nitpickers jumping on the new obvious target? The target is up. That target being the possiblity of a poolplayers union being formed to better organize the sport. A vehicle to protect the players from being scammed one more time. Where is that skill for venomous vitriolic verbage? (I love alliteration)...come on guys/gals let us get the ball rolling...

there is no chance in hell that you can herd the 'cats of pool' into an organized union. The image that comes to mind is: http://www.easycall.net/fun/herding-cats.shtml

Now that the cats are corralled try and collect the monthy dues.......Hey, this is fun being a naysayer....:)

Disclaimer: not responsible for above message as I was overtaken by a witches brew...

Witches brew or not, IMO you're a complete piece of trash, and you know I owe you that (for your obvious cheap shot during Deno's live chat a few months back). That night I went directly to Mike and I had promised him that I would remain respectful with my questions and comments, and you took the opportunity to ask Deno a question that was directed at me and my opinion of the IPT. I got hit between the eyes that night and there was absolutely nothing I could do about it. Nice cheap shot. I was unable to respond because it was a moderated chat, and because I kept my word to Mike. What you did was intentional and possibly premeditated. I haven't forgot about that, so now I will take THIS opportunity to respond to you.

I think you're an idiot. You operate on the lowest level that society has to offer and you probably belong there. Some people are just predestined and wired to be that way. In the future, don't ever make the error of mistaking my kindness for weakness, or clasifying my politeness as a lack of backbone. I just may surprise you.

Everything Deno said in response to your "naysayer" question turned out to be a complete LIE. Who looks silly now? Everything Kevin said to the players during the players meeting in Reno was pure BS from beginning to end. The players were lied to. Who lied to them? Me? That's what Deno, Kevin, and Mike have been selling to the players for the past year - saying that I have been lying to them. That I was ineffective in meeting their needs. That Kevin's money was the silverbullet that they needed - not my rhetorical criticism of his tour. I was to be ignored. Kevin has publicly and privately classified me and everybody else that disgreed with his thinking as losers. That is how he classifies all pool players, not just me. To you and others, it's okay if KT feels that way as long as he pays the big bucks. If you can overlook that in exchange for celebrating about his money, then you have no heart, no backbone, and no sense of pride. FWIW, that is what separates winners from losers, its what's in your heart, not what's in your bank account. You first have to have a heart to realize that.

FYI, the players are uniting because they were ripped off again by another big shot with empty promises. If you find something funny about that (under any circumstances) then in my book you're a POS. Some will probably say that I shouldn't have said that in this forum, but I just call it the way I see it. If the moderators want to penalize me for saying this to you, I'll say beforehand that I know its wrong, but its my judgment call to post this anyway because I feel this needs to be said publicly. You went out of your way to try to make me look silly - publicly, and that is where you'll get my response. I won't apologize for that comment because it was heartfelt and sincere - and above all else - its the truth.

Either find a way to help out with this mess, that is - only if you have the firepower, intelligence or influence - or shut up and watch those that do. You may not like me saying that, but who really cares what you think? You're just a cartoon with a silly name. A "nobody" trying to converse with the people that know what's really going on. In the process, you look even dumber than you seem initially.

Disclaimer: Not responsible for the above message as I was overtaken by the temptation of saying what really needs to be said to this fool.
 

cheesemouse

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BJ,
You've been holding that back since that Live Chat? If I'm not mistaken that live chat took place while the IPT was still fullfilling every promise. The players were tickled pink, they were loving the format, they were being treated with the respect they deserved for the first time in their careers, a world class website with updated stats with streaming live video,
and the money was good as gold. Nearly everybody was thinking "hey, this could be for real?"...too bad it wasn't. Back to that live chat night. This forum at the time had it's early adopters who were presenting some probing questions about how KT was buying the pro pool tour and the players better watchout. Before the live chat began you told me that you were going to be on your best behavior and I said I was not being held to the promise of softball questions. If it turned into a love feast I thought I would act as your surrogate and try and see if Mike would let a question pass (Mike was the one filtering what questions got thru) that referred to the negative press the IPT was starting to get on the AZ forum. I don't remember the exact question but it was something like: "Deno, what do you think of the 'naysayers' on the AZ forum?" ...he let it rip and mentioned your name( I don't remember for sure)
in his response saying something like "naysayers are just a part of life, we don't care about them, and they are insignificant
to the future of the IPT". Deno could have answer that question differently. I sure had no control over his response. I didn't set you up for his disrespectful response. Deno took what you discribe as a cheap shot not me.


Now you said in this thread "That night I went directly to Mike and I had promised him that I would remain respectful with my questions and comments, and you took the opportunity to ask Deno a question that was directed at me and my opinion of the IPT. I got hit between the eyes that night and there was absolutely nothing I could do about it. Nice cheap shot. I was unable to respond because it was a moderated chat."...I guess my question to you is what did you do at that moment? Did you immediately ask Mike to let you off the hook and let you defend yourself and your positions? If you had I'm sure in all fairness Mike would have let you right in on the next question. The whole chat was turning into a love feast and I thought some of you guys/gals were posing some interesting questions on the forum about the way the IPT was doing business. I was firing questions as fast as I could type and only two got thru. The other was "Deno, do you have freedom of operation as the director of the tour?" he answered "absolutely". I was trying to get him on the record so if some of your concerns came to pass he would not be able to say "Don't blame me I was only following orders" Well, he did go on the record..."absolutely"...I was on your side and I thought these questions should be asked. As far as my questions being intentional and possibly premeditated to give Deno the opportunity to body slam you I think not. Don't kill the messenger. You had the opportunity that night to ask Deno questions. What questions did you ask? Whether they passed Mikes filter or not? What questions would you have asked had you not given Deno a free pass that night. Were you afraid you might have looked the fool if you would have tried to put Deno on the spot while the IPT was still peachy keen in all respects? You passed, I did not....

Your opinion of me is obviously pretty low. I am an idiot POS in your eyes. My new opinion of you is your a frustrated powder keg who can't believe your not being listen too. In this thread I flatout said there isn't a chance in hell you or anyone can organize an effective players union. You are four years ahead of the pack on this endeavor.....WHERE IS THE BEEF? The situation that exists right now with the players is a perfect golden opportunity for you to grab the brass ring, spring your plan, loose your better angles and save professional pool.

You went off on some gobble degoop about pride, backbone, winners and losers, bank accounts and heart. Let me pose this best case: you get your union and then another sugar daddy comes along who puts up IPT type prize money but this time in escrow and says "this is my tour, my money, and if you want a piece of it these are the rules. I will not recognize any players unions nor take into concideration any of the alphabet soup organizations that now exist. Don't miss the boat send in your applications now. 150 of the best world class players will be selected by committe to recieve players tour cards for the first years season starting soon.....come and get it boys and girls..........My feet are planted firmly on the ground. I'm living in the real world. You can hold onto your altruistic selfless if it makes you feel better but I know what would happen to your union of players and I think you know too.

But than I'm just a cartoon character with a silly screen name just like 90% of the forum members. I'm a nobody trying to converse with those that know what's really going on. You being an icon of the pool world who has the firepower, the intelligence, and the influence to make it all better for all of us nobody's. I really feel dumb now and I await your solutions to the mess we are in........WHERE IS THE BEEF? ......I await your benenvolent direct on how I could better serve your plan for saving professional pool.

BJ, is it too late for me?
 

Dr. Dissent

Best Doctor in Town
Silver Member
Southpaw said:
I do believe that there should be some kind of union to protect the players, but I am also sad to say that if it is made of the players themselves....it will only be a problem. The Camel Tour and even the UPA have proven this in the past. When you start a tour, you should have a person or persons that are the ones in charge to make the rules. This has not worked well in the past if it was made up of the players themselves. For instance, at one UPA event, the players voted to use the break box the day before the tourney began. Now ofcourse this benefits the players with the stronger breaks more. Well some of the other players didnt like this because it was a change in the format that they had used all season. So, you had players walking out because of this. Then when it was changed back to the original format, you still had players upset because they didnt think any 1 player is larger than the game. I think Scott Smith would be the ideal person to represent the players if such a "union" was formed. JMO.

Southpaw

Nope, Scott Smith could not represent the players. There would be a conflict of intrest.
 

professorpool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cheesemouse said:
...meeting the minimum...:)

Not at all. Governing bodies don't rip off players??

at least, they do not rob them in this manner.

Does this sort of thing happen in th States often? I cannot think of a single time when it has happened in the UK. Though to be fair, it probably has.
 
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