Need Guidance for First Cue + Tip Purchase

J

JMASTERJ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey guys... first a little background... I used to play a lot, maybe I was like a 4 then (on the equalizer APA rating), and then I played maybe once a year for about 20 years, and now I am getting back into it. I am working hard to get to a 5 and then 6+.
There are so many cues out there, it is mind boggling, between length, weight, tip size, etc... My goal is to be able to work the ball while hitting it softer, but my ball striking isn't the best because I dont get to practice much but I am planning on it in the next 6-12 months, and I want to start solid.

I do realize that at my level there is almost no difference between certain $100-$300 cues, but my purpose in asking these questions is to simply narrow down/eliminate certain groups of cues so I dont have to choose from 2000 of them I see all over that fit that pricing. When I try different cues, I DO feel the difference, and I hate the stick bar cues, way too flimsy feeling all over.

My understanding and what I think I need: (Just need a starting point, I hope you know what I mean)

CUE LENGTH: I am 6'2 with average wingspan I think for my height, so I assume standard length is ok? (My choice: 59"?)

CUE WEIGHT: I definitely don't like light shafts, but I think that's just my personal preference. I have no idea what I need for better performance. I don't believe I need more speed, I rather have a slow smoother stroke and have power when I need it, which means a heavier cue. I think that's ok as long as I put on a well chalked good tip? So I guess my point would be, why does anyone need a very light cue? (My choice: 20 oz?)

CUE QUALITY: I think this can be directly related to price correct? One thing I dont understand is, the only preference I know I have is I like the more solid heavy sound... I hate the light tinny sound. Otherwise, how does a $1000 stick make you hit balls better than a $150 stick? (My choice: $100-$190?)

CUE DESIGN: With most things being equal I think a great looking cue is nice to give you more confidence and also less likely to be stolen right? Or is it the opposite LOL.

TIP: Because I really like to work the ball, I am thinking a soft good tip but then again some cues come with an ok tip so not sure if its worth the extra $20 for a new great one and then go through the trouble of learning how to replace it and get all the other glue and equipment and stuff. So If I get like a Le Pro, I might want to just keep it but I heard it is like medium hard, and for my shooting cute, I think I prefer something like Kamui Black (soft)? Is the tip wearing out that much of a pain?

BREAK CUE: Is there much different quality in a break cue? I mean can I just get like a $70 one thats like 25-27 oz and have like a Le Pro medium/hard tip on it? I usually like to put a little underspin on the break but I dont think I need a Kamui for that.

CHALK: I heard it makes a difference, any suggestions welcome. For a few bucks I would definitely get my own chalk.

GLOVE: I usually use a lot of powder to smoothen my bridge hand near the thumb. Is a glove really useful/better? I see Shane use it all the time.

Some I like I saw on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FB733P...UTF8&colid=2X2YDD7TL960N&coliid=IQYOIIT13LPAO
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00140FYO...lid=2X2YDD7TL960N&coliid=I2JEAOLYMUXDNZ&psc=1

ANY other tips, most appreciated! Cheers!
 
wow. a whole gaggle of new posters lately. most interesting.

cue advice is like shoe advice.
you'll probably want to shoot with various cues and tips to find out what you like and don't like.
 
Welcome!

Like Mr. Bond has pointed out the "right cue" is subjective...if you're on a league see if some of your team mates might let you hit a couple balls with their cues....the feedback you get first hand from the cue itself will tell you a lot more than any one of us can.
 
For your budget you are pretty much going to have a standard length 58" cue. Nothing wrong with that, if you ever want to make it longer there are mid extensions available for most joint types.

If you want to get the most out for reasonable money I'd recommend using a little more money on the playing cue and leave the dedicated breaker out at first. You can always buy one later if you really want to. And the break cue should be approximately the same weight or a bit lighter than your playing cue in general consensus.

Good cues for reasonable money are, for example, Players HXT series and Cuetec R360 series. The HXT cues come with a HXT shaft with a Kamui black S as standard. Cant beat them for their price point and the the HXT shaft plays really well.
Cuetec R360 is another good choice, many members here speak highly of them. I have never personally played with one though, I'm just sharing what I habe read of them. May need a tip change so add another 30 bucks or so to the price.

Choosing your desired cue from the above should be simple enough as both lines of cues have weight bolts in them so you can easily make it anything between 18-20oz just by buying some extra bolts for the cue. They arent expensive and your dealer should be able to make the cue weight what you want, I'd ask 19.5 or 20 if I got a grasp on how you like to play :) Another very important part of the cue is the grip. I prefer wrapless myself but it is up to you what feels the best in your hand. HXT cues feature no wrap, linen wrap or a rubber wrap. The rubber wrap wears out eventually from what I have seen, just a word of concern. Grips well though.
Cuetecs are only available with a linen wrap but if thats what you like it should be fine :)

I'm not sure if there are extension available for the cuetecs 3/8x14 joint if you want to make it longer later on. HXT has a 5/16x18 joint wich is very common. Easier to buy different shafts or the mid extension for those than the cuetec :rolleyes:


Hopefully you found this helpful and feel free to ask for more if something comes up :wink:
 
recently I have been trying to guide ppl into pool, into cues, how they should learn to play, which cue plays well etc etc; because I have been there, I took the long way and now I want to show them a shorter way.

and i learned in that process also, what I learn is that they must experience for themselves, EVERYTHING about pool and cues, seriously, EVERYTHING. suddenly there is no shortcut. What is good for me may not be good for him, what I learned may be based on my experience, they dont have such experience so my information may be irrelevant to them.

so, try for yourself, look at your budget and figure out the cues you can buy, then try them to see if you like them.

this kind of questions from you will only end up with you loaded with opinions from ppl with different background, experience and preference to you, which makes them irrelevant to you.
 
^ Well said :smile:


I totally forgot about Schmelke cues. They are well priced and also customisable to some extent. If you know what you want you may want to call them and have a cue made to your wishes. That way you can talk to someone about what you are looking for in a cue and can discuss what kind of cue you should be looking at and get a price point at the same time. Lots of appraisal can be found about their cues and customer service here in the forums :smile:
 
Guidance

JMASTERJ said:
Hey guys... first a little background... I used to play a lot, maybe I was like a 4 then (on the equalizer APA rating), and then I played maybe once a year for about 20 years, and now I am getting back into it. I am working hard to get to a 5 and then 6+.
There are so many cues out there, it is mind boggling, between length, weight, tip size, etc... My goal is to be able to work the ball while hitting it softer, but my ball striking isn't the best because I dont get to practice much but I am planning on it in the next 6-12 months, and I want to start solid.

If you want to improve, you will have to have solid fundamentals. Once you have solid fundamentals, it is like riding a bike. Simple.

I do realize that at my level there is almost no difference between certain $100-$300 cues, but my purpose in asking these questions is to simply narrow down/eliminate certain groups of cues so I dont have to choose from 2000 of them I see all over that fit that pricing. When I try different cues, I DO feel the difference, and I hate the stick bar cues, way too flimsy feeling all over.

Buying a two piece cue starting at $200.00 USD should provide a decent hit. Although paying more for a cue will often include more improved technology, there is a threshold. This threshold is about $300.00. Anything over this is almost always purely cosmetic.

My understanding and what I think I need: (Just need a starting point, I hope you know what I mean)

CUE LENGTH: I am 6'2 with average wingspan I think for my height, so I assume standard length is ok? (My choice: 59"?)

I am tall too and play top level with a standard 58" with my grip hand within the last 5 inches of the cue butt.. I guess If I felt the need to change, I would buy a custom 60" cue. But for now, If I need extra length, I use a cue extension.

CUE WEIGHT: I definitely don't like light shafts, but I think that's just my personal preference. I have no idea what I need for better performance. I don't believe I need more speed, I rather have a slow smoother stroke and have power when I need it, which means a heavier cue. I think that's ok as long as I put on a well chalked good tip? So I guess my point would be, why does anyone need a very light cue? (My choice: 20 oz?)

I prefer a lighter to average cue weight of 18-19 ounces. Most table cloths are fast and the need for heavy cues are of the past. It is more the balance point and your follow-through that makes the difference.

CUE QUALITY: I think this can be directly related to price correct? One thing I dont understand is, the only preference I know I have is I like the more solid heavy sound... I hate the light tinny sound. Otherwise, how does a $1000 stick make you hit balls better than a $150 stick? (My choice: $100-$190?)

Start with $200-300 USD.

CUE DESIGN: With most things being equal I think a great looking cue is nice to give you more confidence and also less likely to be stolen right? Or is it the opposite LOL.

Cue design will give a player confidence, but will only help so much.

TIP: Because I really like to work the ball, I am thinking a soft good tip but then again some cues come with an ok tip so not sure if its worth the extra $20 for a new great one and then go through the trouble of learning how to replace it and get all the other glue and equipment and stuff. So If I get like a Le Pro, I might want to just keep it but I heard it is like medium hard, and for my shooting cute, I think I prefer something like Kamui Black (soft)? Is the tip wearing out that much of a pain?

I would start with a cheap pressed Elkmaster and just pay for installation. Strive for medium, because this is the sweet spot between soft and hard. Experiment or try different cues and tips. There may be one that you like.

BREAK CUE: Is there much different quality in a break cue? I mean can I just get like a $70 one thats like 25-27 oz and have like a Le Pro medium/hard tip on it? I usually like to put a little underspin on the break but I dont think I need a Kamui for that.

There is a difference in break cues. If you need to break and jump, I would recommend a break/jump combo cue.

CHALK: I heard it makes a difference, any suggestions welcome. For a few bucks I would definitely get my own chalk.

Chalk differences vary. I wouldn't worry so much about them. Just chalk up after every shot.

GLOVE: I usually use a lot of powder to smoothen my bridge hand near the thumb. Is a glove really useful/better? I see Shane use it all the time.

I started playing when gloves weren't available. But now, like you, I don't play much and need consistency. Gloves provide this, at least for me.

Some I like I saw on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FB733P...UTF8&colid=2X2YDD7TL960N&coliid=IQYOIIT13LPAO
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00140FYO...lid=2X2YDD7TL960N&coliid=I2JEAOLYMUXDNZ&psc=1

ANY other tips, most appreciated! Cheers!
Click to expand...

Start affordable. When you improve, you can experiment.
 
Ya ya guys, this is some outstanding info, really appreciate all your times spent on this.

Couple of followups:


  • • I'll start with a 59" but if I really like the stick, may consider 58"
  • • I wouldn't mind getting a breaker/jumper but I am confused. First I thought you want a HEAVIER cue for a breaker so you can swing slower and still get the same energy, or swing the same speed and get more energy? Is the real difference in the stiffness of the shaft and the hardness of the tip? (geez, I may need to get my gf into pool LMAO, wayyyyyyyyyyyy too easy gezuz)
  • • I may go with the 20 weight, i.e., my stroke is not too straight right now, I am working on it, but wont a heavier stick be "easier" to straighten out? Is there actually any advantage to a super light stick except for real delicate shots, like a short safety where distance control has to be within a couple of inches? Just like a delicate downhill putt on a fast green, why not just take a smaller stroke, I mean, an extra ounce cant produce that much more power, right? (which goes to my break cute questions well, these weight/power concepts seem inconsistent)
  • • I have heard of Schmelke but since I kinda dont know what I need yet I feel like they have TOO many variables for my knowledge... or should I give them a call and act like its a learning experience anyways? I would just feel guilty if I asked them 30 questions and then said "I'll think about it"... esp if the price got jacked up with all my options.

I know you guys like to keep things organized in forums so I'll post some more specific questions on the HXT and gloves in a separate thread.

Thanks so much again, especially you guys who are not giving me generic advice but trying to cater to my game (for what I know if it).... really makes it a pleasure to learn here!
 
You budget makes it hard for you to have a comfortable variety of options.

Unless u can throw in a couple hundreds more say, ( 500-600 budget range ),
Your best bet is go with , schemlke or cuetec,
However should ur be willing to increase it a hundo or 2 (budget abt 300- 400 ) more u may be able to pick up some plain janes or merry widow from Ryan Theewen of Rat cues who does maintenance n repairs for Muellers.
He mostly uses the 3-8-10 joint , which makes it easier for you to match after-market low deflection shafts like ( predator, mezz, Ob ).

Good luck
 
JMASTERJ said:
Ya ya guys, this is some outstanding info, really appreciate all your times spent on this.

Couple of followups:


  • • I'll start with a 59" but if I really like the stick, may consider 58"
  • • I wouldn't mind getting a breaker/jumper but I am confused. First I thought you want a HEAVIER cue for a breaker so you can swing slower and still get the same energy, or swing the same speed and get more energy? Is the real difference in the stiffness of the shaft and the hardness of the tip? (geez, I may need to get my gf into pool LMAO, wayyyyyyyyyyyy too easy gezuz)
  • • I may go with the 20 weight, i.e., my stroke is not too straight right now, I am working on it, but wont a heavier stick be "easier" to straighten out? Is there actually any advantage to a super light stick except for real delicate shots, like a short safety where distance control has to be within a couple of inches? Just like a delicate downhill putt on a fast green, why not just take a smaller stroke, I mean, an extra ounce cant produce that much more power, right? (which goes to my break cute questions well, these weight/power concepts seem inconsistent)
  • • I have heard of Schmelke but since I kinda dont know what I need yet I feel like they have TOO many variables for my knowledge... or should I give them a call and act like its a learning experience anyways? I would just feel guilty if I asked them 30 questions and then said "I'll think about it"... esp if the price got jacked up with all my options.

I know you guys like to keep things organized in forums so I'll post some more specific questions on the HXT and gloves in a separate thread.

Thanks so much again, especially you guys who are not giving me generic advice but trying to cater to my game (for what I know if it).... really makes it a pleasure to learn here!
Click to expand...
This is simple, call Schmelke,talk to David or Kim. Tell them you're new. Then order a PLAIN SNEAKY PETE, 13mm,pro taper,elkmaster tip. About $100 -$120 will have it to your door. This is your basic starter cue you can have for life. Learn from this cue what you like as far as tip,taper,shaft diameter,weight,etc. Then try all the cues you can from other people,then you can order something you think you're gonna like !!!
 
Start Slow

The best advice I can give here is decide if youre wanting to buy a keeper or if you want to experience variety. This means you get it play with it and sell it later on and try something else.

Dont choose a hard tip, ask about the hardness and dont go beyond a Triangle the softest being say an Elkmaster. The softer you go the more tip maintenance you will need and you will need a tip tool to shape, and manage the sides, dont forget the sides because a soft tip mushrooms as it gets pounded in and you have to be able to trim, seal the shoulders of the tip as well as shape the radius.
 
2twoball said:
This is simple, call Schmelke,talk to David or Kim. Tell them you're new. Then order a PLAIN SNEAKY PETE, 13mm,pro taper,elkmaster tip. About $100 -$120 will have it to your door. This is your basic starter cue you can have for life. Learn from this cue what you like as far as tip,taper,shaft diameter,weight,etc. Then try all the cues you can from other people,then you can order something you think you're gonna like !!!
Click to expand...

How do they compare with the HXT's in quality/value? About the same? I dont mind supporting smaller companies if its all the same.

And the Elkmaster is comparable to the Kamui black soft? I dont know anything about the Elkmasters.
 
336Robin said:
The best advice I can give here is decide if youre wanting to buy a keeper or if you want to experience variety. This means you get it play with it and sell it later on and try something else.

Dont choose a hard tip, ask about the hardness and dont go beyond a Triangle the softest being say an Elkmaster. The softer you go the more tip maintenance you will need and you will need a tip tool to shape, and manage the sides, dont forget the sides because a soft tip mushrooms as it gets pounded in and you have to be able to trim, seal the shoulders of the tip as well as shape the radius.
Click to expand...

Thanks, nice info... I know I prefer softer, and I guess I'll just have to learn how to trim? If I play like 1 hr/week, I assume this wont really be a problem, maybe do it like once a year?

For now I want a keeper, unless I decide I wanna go pro or something LMAO, but I doubt I will ever have enough time for that, so if I get good enough to need a new stick, I'll probably know much more by then anyways, dont really have time to be trying may different sticks every month especially since 95% of my play are league matches.
 
JMASTERJ said:
And the Elkmaster is comparable to the Kamui black soft? I dont know anything about the Elkmasters.
Click to expand...

At first, sorry for my poor english guys.

I've played with Kamui Black SS, S, M and Elkmasters, all installed by myself on my custom Jobo cue butt with a 314-2 shaft.

Elkmasters tip is by far the softest of them and mushroom a lot when they are brand new, it was so soft at first, I didn't like the feeling. So after 1 week of play, I trim it down half to have a harder feeling more like a Kamui black S. But it still feels like a spongy hit, and don't like it.

Kamui black (SS, S, M) have all the same issue, after about 1 month of play, they start glazing and you need to scuff them every day or more if you play a lot. They compress and get harder with time, for example when I played the SS, at first it was perfectly as I like a tip. After 1 week, it start to hit like the S, and after 1 month like the M.
I've almost never had a mushroom issue with Kamui tip, only the S had a slightl tendency of mushrooming, but almost invisible.
I stopped playing with Kamui black due to the glazing issue which drove me crazy.


Note that at this time I was in the Philippines (hot and humid weather) and played around 4 to 6 hours / day.

Since I'm back in Europe, I'm actually testing a Navigator black S. It feels like a Kamui black M, but no glazing issue after 1 month. But I'm not a fan of this tip.

A friend (pool owner) play with a Kamui clear black M (here in Europe) and he doesn't have any glazing issue with it.

Maybe hot and humid weather is a matter to accelerate this issue, or Kamui clear are from better quality.

My next tip will be a Zan S, as I still try to find "my" perfect tip. I hope to find something with the feeling of a Kamui black SS or S asap, without glazing and hardenind issues.

Enjoy potting balls...
 
JMASTERJ said:
How do they compare with the HXT's in quality/value? About the same? I dont mind supporting smaller companies if its all the same.

And the Elkmaster is comparable to the Kamui black soft? I dont know anything about the Elkmasters.
Click to expand...
Schmelke is BETTER than players. It is also made here in USA,(Rice Lake,Wisconsin). The Kamuii is an expensive tip to 'learn' if soft is for you. Elkmaster has been 'the' soft tip forever. If it is too soft,after a while move to a Triangle or LePro. All 3 of these are very inexpensive tips that have been a mainstay in the pool game for years. Good Luck with your choices !!!
 
Huzzah and Welcome!

Have a look at McDermott - a finer pocket billiards instrument, ye shall not find.

G230.jpg


Regards,

Lesh
 
BuzzSwiss said:
At first, sorry for my poor english guys.
I've played with Kamui Black SS, S, M and Elkmasters, all installed by myself on my custom Jobo cue butt with a 314-2 shaft.
Elkmasters tip is by far the softest of them and mushroom a lot when they are brand new, it was so soft at first, I didn't like the feeling. So after 1 week of play, I trim it down half to have a harder feeling more like a Kamui black S. But it still feels like a spongy hit, and don't like it.
Kamui black (SS, S, M) have all the same issue, after about 1 month of play, they start glazing and you need to scuff them every day or more if you play a lot. They compress and get harder with time, for example when I played the SS, at first it was perfectly as I like a tip. After 1 week, it start to hit like the S, and after 1 month like the M.
I've almost never had a mushroom issue with Kamui tip, only the S had a slightl tendency of mushrooming, but almost invisible.
I stopped playing with Kamui black due to the glazing issue which drove me crazy.

Note that at this time I was in the Philippines (hot and humid weather) and played around 4 to 6 hours / day.
Since I'm back in Europe, I'm actually testing a Navigator black S. It feels like a Kamui black M, but no glazing issue after 1 month. But I'm not a fan of this tip.
A friend (pool owner) play with a Kamui clear black M (here in Europe) and he doesn't have any glazing issue with it.

Maybe hot and humid weather is a matter to accelerate this issue, or Kamui clear are from better quality.

My next tip will be a Zan S, as I still try to find "my" perfect tip. I hope to find something with the feeling of a Kamui black SS or S asap, without glazing and hardenind issues.
Enjoy potting balls...
Click to expand...

Yor Emglish is ffine! I seen a lots worst on the internet frum actual Americanz LOL

I can see how the mushrooms can be annoying... what about using the needle poker thing, doesnt that help loosen up that "glaze" after a while?

I guess all tips have some issues one way or another, is that what you are saying LOL... I would appreciate a tip that plays soft for at least, for me, a year which would be like less than 200 hours. Seems like replacing a tip on a cue is not easy?



2twoball said:
Schmelke is BETTER than players. It is also made here in USA,(Rice Lake,Wisconsin). The Kamuii is an expensive tip to 'learn' if soft is for you. Elkmaster has been 'the' soft tip forever. If it is too soft,after a while move to a Triangle or LePro. All 3 of these are very inexpensive tips that have been a mainstay in the pool game for years. Good Luck with your choices !!!
Click to expand...

Hmm I see... you guys should be making commission from them LMAO... so many people liking them, I am sure they get sales from this forum... $$$$$$$

Is there only one model of Elk?


Lesh said:
Huzzah and Welcome!

Have a look at McDermott - a finer pocket billiards instrument, ye shall not find.
G230.jpg

Regards,
Lesh
Click to expand...

Is this a whole another brand? I think I want to stick with Players or Schmelke for now, wanna keep things simple and not have to look for 3rd and 4th options.
 
:smile:



Just get a new purple heart handle Joss cue for $185.

This way if you don't like it, you can still sell it and get what you paid for it.





.
 
Kimmo H. said:
^ Well said :smile:


I totally forgot about Schmelke cues. They are well priced and also customisable to some extent. If you know what you want you may want to call them and have a cue made to your wishes. That way you can talk to someone about what you are looking for in a cue and can discuss what kind of cue you should be looking at and get a price point at the same time. Lots of appraisal can be found about their cues and customer service here in the forums :smile:
Click to expand...

I actually have one being made right now! Ended up ordering a 60" (30 and 30) 12.5mm shaft, extended pro taper (16-18") with a triangle tip, Cocobolo into curly maple with black joint collar and buttcap, 3/8x10 wood to wood pin, 1/2 inch XTC ferrule, 18oz, skinnier butt, so it should be a bit forward balanced.

If it all pans out and their work is what everyone says it is then i'll be getting a break cue in similar fashion!

ALl for just a tad over the 200$ mark. Obviously you can cut out all the bells and whistles and just get a sneaky cocobolo for like 130, or I believe they are still having a sale on the purple heart sneakies for something ludicrous like 80$ A PIECE!!!

Hard to beat something nearly custom made in the US for that kind of money.
 
I've already seen someone else mention it, and I also agree that Players HXT is an excellent choice as a first cue or a cue that will serve you well as you progress through your pool journey.
 
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